A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Plums Yo Mamma]

I was sort of hoping that things would sort themselves out so I wouldn't have to do this, but it seems like things aren't going to do it themselves because there are too many people in this game, and that makes me very, very, very sad. But, since it looks like I'm going to sleep through the Labor Day festivities tomorrow, there's nothing that I would rather do more than catch up in this game, right? No. Please excuse later postings (all Nacho because Plum is a more patient, a more tactful, and probably overall a better person than I am at the moment) for slight helping of hate, anger, and rage. Hopefully anger means that I can be properly hyped to deal with all of this. Hopefully.

[kortul]

@bvoigt - so far i like Saporeint, and the slot overal got my weak town read. This hydra is working, you can see reads changing over time and the reasons why. Besides, i 've seen Iec scum game recently, it was different, he is much more relaxed and open.

@Dolorous Edd - you answered your own question to me: i moved my vote from bvoigt to Shadow because Shadow is my strongest scumread so far. I was voting bvoigt because i liked the alternative wagon even less, and spreading votes organizing third wagon is detrimental near deadline. Now, with deadline extension and alone bvoigt wagon with 2/3 of players sitting elsewhere, i do want to try and lynch my strongest suspicion instead.

Thanks, Lyanna. It seems that so far only you and Tierce notice my questions.

Finished my read on

DCLXVI

. He replaced redFF, so had to read both ISO.

redFF is null, with one thing that is nagging me. In his first post redFF voted Starbuck, because he suspected her trying to look pro-town, but not having town-minded thoughts. In the rest of his posts he is arguing with Starbuck on the Choose theories. In the same first post redFF choose voted Feysal, because he believed that he made "multi-scum slip" and to "see how feysal continues to react". Yet he never mentioned him at all afterwards, and replaced out a week later. That's it, there were no other interactions, opinions and thoughts. I think, that after the first few posts he wasn't really following the game, but i don't see this as a scum tell, since once he realized that he replaced out.

The only thing that I don't understand, is why while he was still active he was trying to persuade his scum suspect that her theories are wrong, unless he was trying to get a better read on her - in that case, he forgot to tell us the results.

There are two things i don't like about DCLXVI. In his first relevant post DCLXVI says, that he "finally skimmed through enough of this to make some sense out of what is happening", and proceeds with some reads and a vote on Jal, without even mentioning him before (or after). Even after Dolorus Edd switched vote from Jal, DCLXVI stayed there, without attacking/interrogating his suspect, or engaging or commenting on big wagons. And a second thing is that he was concentrated on defending himself even when there was no real pressure.

Overall impression - i am leaning scum on him, wish there were more recent posts from DCL to refine the read. I can trust him with a gun if i am wrong, since i remember him as a competent player.

UNCHOOSE
CHOOSE DCLXVI

Will continue with ISO on StefanB. Planning to reassess Feysal as well, since i see the same lack of engagement/comments on vote wagons in his recent posts.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I promise content tomorrow its been a busy time.

[Tyene Sand]

Unofficial Vote count:

Saporerint (6) - bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin, Shadow1psc, BBmolla, Shinori, Albert B. Rampage
Shinori (1) - Staeg
Shadow1psc (6) - Lyanna Stark, Benmage, kortul, Minimum, Dolorous Edd, Saporerint
bvoigt (10) - Plums Yo Mamma, greenknight, SnowStorm, Tyene Sand, Pandora, MagnaofIllusion, Seraphim, StefanB, Plessiezarus, mockingjaye
Jal (1) - DCLXVI
StefanB (1) - Regfan

Not Voting (3): Jal, Feysal, Starbuck

---

Unofficial Choose count:

Dolorous Edd (1) - Jal
Feysal (9) - bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori, DCLXVI, Benmage, Albert B. Rampage, SnowStorm, Dolorous Edd, Saporerint
Minimum (2) - StefanB, mockingjaye
greenknight (3) - Plums Yo Mamma, Seraphim, MagnaofIllusion
kortul (4) - Mastermind of Sin, BBmolla, Staeg, Shadow1psc
DLCXVI (8) - Tyene Sand, Plessiezarus, Minimum, Regfan, Pandora, Feysal, Lyanna Stark, kortul

Not Choosing (1): Starbuck

---

Things that make me uncomfortable:

• On the votes: Staeg and Regfan's votes are useless. Jal is missing in combat, Feysal isn't voting for some reason and could be voting bvoigt (I assume he will once he finishes that ISO), Starbuck half-requested replacement.
  
• On the choosing: Jal's Choose is bad and, again, he's MIA, StefanB and mockingjaye have utterly useless Choosings, PlumNacho, Seraphim and MoI are voting a
  mason
  .
  
• On both: Look at this section:
  • Saporerint (6) - bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin, Shadow1psc, BBmolla, Shinori, Albert B. Rampage
    

    kortul (4) - Mastermind of Sin, BBmolla, Staeg, Shadow1psc
  I'll be damned if all of this is Town.

---

How the hell are we getting vanity wagons at 60 hours to deadline? Regfan, you should be ashamed.

DCLXVI deserves to die. He hasn't been very active elsewhere either, true, but he HAS been online and posting elsewhere while sitting on the most useless vote possible at this stage. The least he could do was pick a townread and sheep it onto usefulness, which he did SIX DAYS AGO and never changed when Dolorous Edd's vote on Jal is long gone. (Also, lol at the "omg I'm voting people it's not my fault they got caught before I got here look at me being defensive over votes I should be overjoyed about but oh wait why do I have such strong scumreads when I just claimed to be tired and sheeping?") Three days of absence from the thread and less than three days to deadline. GET MOVING OR YOU DIE. I don't even give half a damn if you shoot

me

, at this stage I'd suicide onto you myself and I'm the one who didn't take an action N1 when I was a suicide vig on Glork's Haiku Mafia. I want to see blood here.

The bvoigt wagon shows no sign of moving forward other than Feysal's ever-ongoing-catch-up. I'll compromise if that means this playerlist goes through a purge with fire and blood.

[Tyene Sand]

ABR! While you're here, put your vote on someone who actually has a possibility of flipping today, kthx. Content can wait, we need VOTES.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

Nice way to twist words, where did I ever say what I do isn't important? Nor did I call myself too scummy to be scum, I merely pointed out that scum don't tend to intentionally act scummy. Seems redundant. Your entire argument is based around a huge discussion you never really responded to. You've contributed less than I have, by and large to the current discussions for that matter. Just because I'm loud and in your face, y u hatin ; ;

This is probably that in your face attitude so many people know and love from Shadow, and what paints him as such obvious, obvious town. Why would scum be so mean? People ask. Why would scum be so stubborn? Well, generally stubbornness in town is regarded as a towntell because it demonstrates people are pursuing their own path, and refuse to be convinced to go any other way by anyone even if it garners them suspicion, which is often disadvantageous for scum. So, before you call this behavior townie, think of what path he's following. Scumreads? Well, he did have two on MoI and Cow, but the only way he decided to pursue said scumreads was by THREATENING TO SHOOT THEM IF HE WAS CHOSEN. Which is pretty much the biggest pot of bullshit I have ever seen and I am really surprised and saddened that anyone let that past them. So no, he's not being stubborn because he thinks he's found scum. No, he's being stubborn in defending himself. The only time he shows a tiny little bit of interest is when someone calls him scum, and that's just scum scum scum scum and people should really stop calling it town. Moving on.

Also I asked the mod and he has given me permission to do this so I'm starting it here, me and a friend are going to start hydraing from this account. He doesn't play here so you wouldn't know him, but he is "Elie" and I am "Shino/ri".

Well this is interesting and I am eager to see it continue. I do not think at all that Shinori would pull something like this as scum (another person whose posting he has to watch), but would probably pull someone in to help find scum with him. Hyperion burn it with fire reads are slowly being replaced with a warm glow of towniness, but I haven't done much past some hardcore skimming lately, so that is susceptible to change.

That's pretty interesting. :p

This is useless as fuck, but I guarantee you won't read this, so whatever. This guy is probably town to people because he's "an easy target", and he's just so far behind in the game he can't possibly be scum. So yeah, not replacing out and instead gracing us with beautiful and insightful posts like this means he's 100% town as fuck.

If he were scum, he'd be trying to look like he's making a real effort. The copy-pasted reads list shows Salamence doesn't really care how he comes across, because he doesn't have anything to fear.

or it shows that he's having trouble coming up with new shit but still wants to make it seem like he's putting in effort, so he brings back his old posting.
lazy people will be lazy, regardless of alignment. there's not such a dedication to your scumteam that it will defeat your natural tendencies, especially when it's probably a pretty big scumteam and you figure that you will probably be lynched anyways.

These are your first few posts and I had made better posts than shit. But I will admit your later play is much better.

All that he did in this post was giggle and hide behind Tierce/Tammy (whichever one she is), then post a bunch of MoS's posts and say this. If Sala thinks that posting quality denotes scumminess, then his not doing shit and being blatant about it should concern him as town. If he sees MoS posting improve later and thinks it's good for redemption, then he shouldn't bring the case up at all. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't bring the case up at all. It's not as gotcha as scumfuck Shadow, but it's still something that warrants attention.

he sarcasm from shadow seem to show more of a town mindset, scum generally don't play that loosely. (at least from my experience)

I had a bit of a rant earlier. This is what I was referring.

-Dolorous is town. From the posts of hers I skimmed its clear she is active and definitely scum hunting which is good.

nonononononono
no
nonononono
nono
please no

Still lurking, life's busy, will make time tomorrow.

sheep Plum and I, good things usually come from that.

mockingjaye is a breath of fresh posting, thank god for that. In particular, I feel the minimum scumread is something that not a whole lot of people decided to actually explore (instead mostly sheeped), and she's one of the few that has. Plus she's voting shadow (who I saw posted while scrolling down, can't fucking wait), and that's a free pass into the good books from me.

Oh, but the second I go on a long winded rant about why I don't contribute as much and I'm scum. Good catch

As to be expected from the burning beacon of towniness. Cow posts something about him contributing that much, and Shadow, INSTEAD OF USING IT TO CALL COW SCUM, talks about how cow uses his non-contributions to call him scum. Defending himself from a scumread, HMMM.

BBMolla doc slipped, fuck. Might be town, though. Unless he got good scumbuddies, who knows.

Tammy posting on page 35 is kind of townish. And by kind of townish, I mean really townish and thank you Molla for that sexy reaction test.

sort of really finding kortul scum, I see where Plum got it from. As a result, I am very confused why people attack the read ever. Oh well, the mysteries caused by hardcore skimming. AND LOOK LATER KORTUL IN #999 UNVOTING AND NOT DOING SHIT, THIS IS LIKE TEXTBOOK SCUM EATS ROPE.

oh look, shadow's actually pushing his MoI and cow scumreads, interesting. He's just waay more confident that Salamence is scum, for reasons he doesn't really push at all. Cool.

mos and I are on the same level so hard right now it kind of concerns me. maybe amurika has a chance, for once.
regfan, meanwhile... god damnit.

sal replacing out is a good thing.

kortul's #1124 is actually decently townish and I may have to hand that round to Regfan. I maintain there weren't any obvtown signals before this post, though.

saporint hydra is already obvtown, which is pretty cool. DE is also town if I didn't say that before.

Unvote, Vote: Shadow

Unchoose, Choose: DCL

I'm sure Plum won't mind, hopefully.

[Plums Yo Mamma]

also ABR's glorious return is sort of underwhelming, but he gets that benefit of the doubt thing until tomorrow.
for now, sleep.
if I sleep through tomorrow (likely), I will be very angry and probably taking out my anger in this thread, so if you lynch someone before I get back (wink wink), good things will happen. please get it done.

[Eddard Stark]

Patchface is Stannis's court fool and jester at Dragonstone. His face is tattooed in motley, earning his name.

Day 1, Votecount 44

Saporerint (6) - bvoigt, Mastermind of Sin, Shadow1psc, BBmolla, Shinori, Albert B. Rampage
Feysal (1) - Starbuck
Shinori (1) - Staeg

Shadow1psc (8) - Lyanna Stark, Benmage, kortul, Minimum, Dolorous Edd, Saporerint, Mockingjaye, Plums Yo Mamma

bvoigt (8) - greenknight, SnowStorm, Tyene Sand, Pandora, MagnaofIllusion, Seraphim, StefanB, Plessiezarus

Jal (1) - DCLXVI
StefanB (1) - Regfan

Not Voting (2):

Jal, Feysal

With 28 alive it takes 15 to lynch.

• Deadline
  : 5th September at 11:59pm Ireland time. (GMT+1)
  
• Countdown to deadline
  : (expired on 2012-09-05 18:59:59)
  
• Starbuck/Benmage/MOI/Lyanna Stark/Mastermind of Sin are all V/la.

CHOOSE YAWNING

Dolorous Edd (1) - Jal

Feysal (9) - Bvoigt, greenknight, Shinori, DCLXVI, Benmage, Albert B. Rampage, SnowStorm, Dolorous Edd, Saporerint

Minimum (2) - StefanB, Mockingjaye
Starbuck (1) - Starbuck
greenknight (2) - Seraphim, MagnaofIllusion
kortul (4) - Mastermind of Sin, BBmolla, Staeg, Shdow1psc

DLCXVI (9) - Tyene Sand, Plessiezarus, Minimum, Regfan, Pandora, Feysal, Lyanna Stark, Kortul, Plums Yo Mamma

Not Choosing (0):

No one

With 28 alive it takes 15 to 'Choose'. Once a choose has 15 votes it will be locked in but not end day.

Poking Staeg and DCLXVI now the weekend is over and checking if Starbuck wants to be replaced

[Minimum]

Minimum:
So, CES, why did you write Post 844, because those were all points I had addressed to Mina and I really would prefer to hear her response to at least the first two of them.

The answers to your questions in that post:
1. Yes, I do. You both know MoI well enough to know he's definitely not emo, nor is he concerned with other people's opinions of him. Mina saying something like that reads more like she's making something up to try to justify disengaging from her earlier stance on him due to his self-nom.
2. No, I didn't read it as genuine. I took that up with her in my first post, though, so I'm not sure why you asked me this.
3. It was a little late, but it was still an attempt to undo or at least mitigate some of the damage caused by her outburst.

I'm not happy that Mina handed off responsibility for answering my questions to CES and never brought them up when she was posting again. I think it proves the point made by MoI in Post 1024 and confirms my scum read on them.

I wrote it because I was there and I don't really see any reason to respect people's wishes when it comes to which hydra head they want to talk to.

1. In your experience is that a thing that scum actually do? Out and out lie for little reason? However cool it would be if true, scum rarely go for the cartoonish villainy.
2. Question wasn't if it was genuine. Question was what you make of it (the cartoonish villainy angle is again relevant here).
3. I don't remember any damage?

[Minimum]

People should compromise onto Shadow for the lynch and choose DCLXVI with righteous fury. Feysal is definitely not allowed to be chosen.

[Jal]

I actually don't find Saporerint's posts to make the slot look any more townie than Sal, and actually seems more scummy to me. Most of it is just notes, and notes that just don't really tell much of anything at all. Even then, there's just something that throws me off about them. She has already admitted that she's at least partially read parts of the thread (at least regarding to Snow and Green's mason claim) and I feel like her reads reflects on her knowing the outcome of some things before actually writing down notes.

She says she found SnowStorm town, but doesn't really comment on any of the posts or votes concerning the wagon - and it was quite a big wagon at some point. I'd think she'd at least have a comment to make such as she did concerning the Bvoight wagon.

Apparently, I look likely scum some time between 991 and 1033 where I don't even post. I would think perhaps Saporerint actually looked at DE's Newbie 1237 and maybe agreed with his assessment, but saying "DE's scumtell claim" makes me think she hadn't. So this just comes out of nowhere without many written notes even about me, except a note about how I voted DE out of the norm pov.

Actually, that note in particular (top of 1264) just comes out of pretty much nowhere, and indicates "pre-reading" prior to actually making the notes (they aren't stream of conscious). I later go into the ambivalent pile which strikes of as strange considering the above statement, although given my position I'm probably just riding the edge.

Gives a short version of his last reads which reports Kortul as town now, although none of the notes actually indicates this feeling beyond Kortul's vote for Bvoight being least bad among a set of votes.

The Sal slot was coasting between VI and just nothing. Although, there's a very smart part of me that thinks Sal saw Umbrage's thread in the mafia forum and just failed at listing reads to look townie.

@Saporerint

:

That's my note on your first post. You voted for DE at a time when most were calling him town. It stuck out to me both for that reason and because earlier I had been surprised DE hadn't gotten more scrutiny.

But what about it?
Are your reads in order of strength?

Just to comment. I didn't do some comprehensive self-meta thing. I put down links to both my town and scum games to show and give a better understanding of my town meta because I feel like its evolved beyond my first game on the site. Also, DE didn't post a scum-meta. He posted town-meta.

@Minimum

There's a 75% chance I won't be riding the Shadow gravy train today. Apologies.

More later today and will make vote. Have time off with the holiday.

Unchoose:

[Jal]

*Small part of me

[Staeg]

Alright. Um. The majority of my scumreads, great or small, have either been replaced and are either towning or are apparently masons. So um.
I agree with Sapor on most things (all except for the stefan scumread and my read on Feysal is more based on him sounding

wrong

in his posts than his ISO of GK) and the tone there is town (but Iec appears to be the only one playing and huge hydrabomb incoming etcetc)
GK&SS are masons
Shadow/Starbuck/Kortul can still die anytime
The kortul Choosewagon is not going through today; I could support a Feysal choose, I suppose, but I'd prefer a 666 one, seeing as he'll eventually be mislynched if he's town, and if not, he won't be of much use.

unvote
Vote: Shadow

Unchoose
Choose: 666

Haven't read Bvoight in ISO, but his posts haven't struck me as too bright or too townie, so I wouldn't weep if the lynch landed there.


Jesus, the fucking walls ;_;

Staeg, which of the things that I posted in Post 1108 are player-based tells on him and can you link me a single game of his that proves such because your continued vote on Kortul is disgusting, you should at least be able to read him and see there's significantly better targets to go to.

Okay, these are your towntells:

Post 648 shows that Kortuls actually reading through the game super carefully looking for information, not just information to fabricate reasoning to vote people with but information that would better help him attain reads, it's a very town-motivated mindset and not one that scum take when replacing into a game.

His overthrought in Post 795 about the usages of the second kill despite it being spoken by everyone prior to him comes across as him really wanting to state what's on his mind whereas as scum he'd know posting something such as that has potential for drawing fire towards him and know that there'd be no gaining in doing it.

His Post 1000 is another townish-tell, previous post of his shows that he still suspects Snow despite his mason claim stating that the reasons he suspects him are still valid so him checking up on the likelihood of his claim being legitimate flavourish is very natural.

His taking into account his reads on the wagons in Post 1073 is again a town-tell and his attempt to get more infromation on the bvoigt case is too.

Also the fact that when reading through Shadow he didn't just state posts he disliked but also linked to one that he did in Post 1081 is a big town-tell, scum don't go into an ISO going 'how can i find them scum and town', not at all especially not when they're planning on voting the person.

Underlined is multiball-invalid things, bold are player-based tells and italics are points I disagree that are towntells.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First things first ...

A Shadow lynch wagon? I'm so happy with that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shadow

I'm not really a fan of the DCL choose wagon ... I'd much prefer Minimum. If it comes down to it I'll move to DCL over Feysal.

Unchoose
Choose: Minimum

[Dolorous Edd]

You're still on Mini <_<.

And I hate you all for changing my reads

UNCHOOSE:

CHOOSE: DCL

Ohai.

~Post on SAD deleted

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shadow’s Post 1075 and Post 1079 show exactly why he needs rope as others have already gone over while I am LA.

Mockingjaye is Town. Any further attempts to wagon her for low activity will be met with violent roping.

--

This is depressing. Minimum is not getting lynched or chosen despite majority of the room voicing a scum-read on the slot and instead weaker players are being pushed instead for reasons that sum up to them being weaker. I want Minimum in a noose before day 3 at absolute latest.

QFT

--

I looked at the quotes in his signature, sighed and moved on. MoI, what do you know of this replacement?

Read Dark Side of the Moon Mafia. Seraphim’s play was terrible all the way around. Despite the fact I handed Town the identity of scum (and lynched 2 of them Day 1 and 2) and Zang’s being saved pre-LYLO by an unclaimed Governor was clearly an indication he needed to by lynched in LYLO Seraphim derped it up and lost the game for Town.

I stand by the line in his sig. The fact that he is proud of being so terrible makes my blood boil and he will be voted by me if his wagon EVER becomes viable. He’s in my “Policy Lynch always" pool even if I read him as Town since he is a danger to Town regardless of alignment.

--

You realize there's a reason we're hydraing, right, MoI?

Bvoigtwagon seems to me mostly a matter of him being not that strong a player but not to the point where it looks like an easy lynch. His posting seems fine to me.

Another non-response in the first line. Yup there is a reason you are hydrating. What that reason is has absolutely no impact on whether you drew a scum-PM or not.

Meta is a big part of it. I've played with him and looked over the Kingdom Hearts game and he really did look town in both those games. There's also just a lack of scumhunting in his posts and recently he's simply gone completely inactive and basically not bothering to play. There are also a few statements that are clearly off (his original Feysalpost and "Hey!!! Someone understands me!!!! About time!!!") of a type that you'd expect Salascum to screw them up.

Sala is a VI. I’d love you to link your common games to show him looking Town. He was terrible in Kingdom Hearts. The stance (Mina propsed it in the Some VIs are readable … sell me on Sala Town post) that people should sell the two of you on Sala-Town is a mis-argument. I see a few players (Benmage) arguing that Sala is Town but I myself say I have a very hard time reading Sala and find the attention he draws for VI play suspect. You both needed to sell “Sala scum” not the other way around.

Frankly for someone who is giving bvoigt the “looks like an acceptable mislynch since he’s not an easy lynch” cover your push on Sala is a nice bit of Cognitive Dissonance.

--

2. What I'm saying is that DCL thought it was RVS. His exact words were "a silly RVS post."

And I think that’s not a valid explanation. Look at Post 16. The silly part to me is Benmage voting someone he says mathematically isn’t scum.

Let’s ask DCL …

@DCL

– Why did you call Benmage’s RVS post silly specifically?

[bvoigt]

You seem to be one of the few people, if not the only person, to suspect Starbuck. What makes shooting her a better idea than shooting someone who you have a weaker scumread on, but also is more of a consensus choice as scum?

He's only saying this so people can stay away from his wagon.

But it doesn't really matter, since he's scum, etc.

Also, how do you feel about being lynched? Since you know, there is no wagon near yours, and there is a very very high percent that there won’t be in the next 2-3 days.

Ignoring suspicion won't just magically make it go away.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I asked if anyone had questions for me, and have been trying to contribute. But anyway, there seems to be enough support for a Shadow lynch. I'm not really convinced he's scum, but....

UNVOTE: Saporerint
VOTE: Shadow1

@bvoigt - so far i like Saporeint, and the slot overal got my weak town read. This hydra is working, you can see reads changing over time and the reasons why. Besides, i 've seen Iec scum game recently, it was different, he is much more relaxed and open.

Could you link to that game, please?

I'm just not getting any scumvibes from Saporerint. Sometimes they just seem null, but other posts (like #1186 and #1236) do feel town. I can follow his thought processes and they seem to be genuinely scumhunting. I dunno...it seems to happen too often that someone gets replaced and the new player totally changes my opinion of the slot.

[bvoigt]

@Feysal: Can you respond to my question, please?

[Tyene Sand]

You seem to be one of the few people, if not the only person, to suspect Starbuck. What makes shooting her a better idea than shooting someone who you have a weaker scumread on, but also is more of a consensus choice as scum?

He's only saying this so people can stay away from his wagon.

But it doesn't really matter, since he's scum, etc.

Also, how do you feel about being lynched? Since you know, there is no wagon near yours, and there is a very very high percent that there won’t be in the next 2-3 days.

Ignoring suspicion won't just magically make it go away.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I asked if anyone had questions for me, and have been trying to contribute. But anyway, there seems to be enough support for a Shadow lynch. I'm not really convinced he's scum, but....

UNVOTE: Saporerint
VOTE: Shadow1

What on earth is this.
People don't have to ask you questions. People don't have to do your work for you. If you're town, pull your own weight--no one is going to do that for you.
You have seven votes on you at the moment, and are voting your counterwagon just to save your skin without even acknowledging those voters. Who do you think are the scum in your wagon? Why aren't you engaging them AT ALL? Why are you just voting to save your sorry backside without giving any sign that you would be a much better asset to town than Shadow1psc?

[Tyene Sand]

Argh. As much as I want to punish him for being awful in general, I think he's town.

But ARGH. Seriously, dude, try to get a grip on the game you signed up for.

UNVOTE: bvoigt

Let me check the VC.

[Tyene Sand]

VOTE: Shadow1psc (L-3)

[DCLXVI]

Poke dodging. I'm alive and will post something with content later this evening.

[Saporerint]

@ Lyanna

I put BB in the town column on gut from his page 1 jokeclaim post and have stuck with it without any hiccups. Looking through his iso, the only other moment I remember standing out is when he posted constructively about SS's flavor-spec (195), and SS's response to that made me reinterpret SS's original flavor-spec more
- Iecerint

Why do you think that giving someone a town read based on gut is meaningful, yet say that someone's reasons (ie...me) for voting someone because their posts make them feel twitchy is a lot of nothing?

1. That bit (i.e., the one from noteset 1 that I think you're referring to) was just one example. You need the full wallpost context to really understand what I was talking about. It's not been as bad in the past few pages.

2. I guess giving town gut reads might theoretically be a bit better (e.g., they're not getting lynched, this can mask role-based townreads, etc), but it's not a dichotomy that drives my decision-making process.

@ Jal

[Sapor] says she found SnowStorm town, but doesn't really comment on any of the posts or votes concerning the wagon - and it was quite a big wagon at some point. I'd think she'd at least have a comment to make such as she did concerning the Bvoight wagon. Apparently, I look likely scum some time between 991 and 1033 where I don't even post.

I actually did comment on it, albeit not until the context of Benmage doing his wagon analysis. I'm surprised you didn't notice this, because you are literally referring to said commentary (1033). This is the post:

SnowStorm (10) - Plessiezarus,

Regfan, Tyene Sand

, Feysal, Jal, Shinori,

MagnaofIllusion, Pandora, BBmolla

, kortul

I agree with basically all his townreads, and I would throw in Plessie and Kortul, too. That leaves you, Shinori, and Feysal. This is part of why Shinori jumped to the top of my ideal lynches.

Actually, that note in particular (top of 1264) just comes out of pretty much nowhere, and indicates "pre-reading" prior to actually making the notes (they aren't stream of conscious).

Well, I'd kept up with the thread from page 45 forward or so to answer questions about my notesets, so it shouldn't really be a surprise that I became more knowledgeable about what's going on as the notesets go forward. Not sure which comment in post 1245 you're referring to, though.

Gives a short version of his last reads which reports Kortul as town now, although none of the notes actually indicates this feeling beyond Kortul's vote for Bvoight being least bad among a set of votes.

Kortul asked people to explain the bvoight case 3 times. This bothered me because scum sometimes do this to saturate the thread with rhetoric of a certain type. When Kortul responded to no one answering by doing his own iso and noticing non-parroted things, those concerns went away. This also made be extra-happy, because I wasn't worried about his Shadow shift anymore.

That's my note on your first post. You voted for DE at a time when most were calling him town. It stuck out to me both for that reason and because earlier I had been surprised DE hadn't gotten more scrutiny.

But what about it?

I always try to take note of players' first post, especially if they enter the game late or post more sporadically. This helps me remember them. I don't remember anything coming of it so far, so no, there's nothing about it in particular.

I should note that the notes are mostly intended for me (it's hard to keep myself from skimming if I don't take notes), but I post them, anyway, to give people a sense of my thought process.

Are your reads in order of strength?

No, they're in order of the modpost on page 1. I already gave my top scumpics in a post after that, so that should be clear, at any rate. What are you wanting clarification on?

Just to comment. I didn't do some comprehensive self-meta thing. I put down links to both my town and scum games to show and give a better understanding of my town meta because I feel like its evolved beyond my first game on the site. Also, DE didn't post a scum-meta. He posted town-meta.

That wasn't a criticism. I'm OK with self-meta; I do it all the time, and it drives people crazy. This was a note to me that you had done this so that I could go back and review what you'd posted (cuz I don't have time D1).

- Iec

[Saporerint]

I hadn't noticed how far along the DCL Choosewagon had come. It looks like both wagons are tied now. I'd thought Feysal was basically the only viable wagon there.

I am happy with both options there now. I think Sapo may prefer DCL, so we will confer and re-post soon.

- Iec

[Minimum]

Another non-response in the first line. Yup there is a reason you are hydrating. What that reason is has absolutely no impact on whether you drew a scum-PM or not.

It's very important to stay hydrated! More relevantly, our reasons for hydraing do matter for activity stuff which your accusation preceding that remark dealt with.

Sala is a VI. I’d love you to link your common games to show him looking Town. He was terrible in Kingdom Hearts. The stance (Mina propsed it in the Some VIs are readable … sell me on Sala Town post) that people should sell the two of you on Sala-Town is a mis-argument. I see a few players (Benmage) arguing that Sala is Town but I myself say I have a very hard time reading Sala and find the attention he draws for VI play suspect. You both needed to sell “Sala scum” not the other way around.

Link (#26 is especially townie looking). And I did try to sell Salascum; and given the circumstances challenging people to sell us Salatown instead of lazily dismissing it as a push on a VI was not inappropriate.

Frankly for someone who is giving bvoigt the “looks like an acceptable mislynch since he’s not an easy lynch” cover your push on Sala is a nice bit of Cognitive Dissonance.

Hmm? My position was and is that the bvoigtwagon looks like the result of him being a weaker player but not weak enough that he enjoys the "easy target" protection. Where is the dissonance?