Open 432: Robo's PYP (Game Over)

[BK201]

Brandi is confirmed town. Nora's AtE-walls and how Nat was discrediting them + Nat tunneling Brandi.

Panda is most likely town. At a time when Nat was safe, she encouraged the vig to kill Panda. She even said "Slaandar's plan is foolproof".

[Brandi]

I'm in way too many goddamned games right now, seriously. I made a slight error in judgment when I signed up for so many at once.

I guess I don't really have any strong opinions one way or another, so I can just

vote: Sawyer

.

Both you and Shamrock are looking great. /sarcasm
----

@Brandi

- Your explanation is backed up with a pathetic excuse.
- You threaten to change your town read on me.
Keep going. You're doing great at convincing me you're town.

Please point me to where you explained yourself.

lol if you think I care to convince you of anything you are sorely mistaken.
I wasn't threatening anything- I was merely stating a fact.
That your posts are starting to get very reachy like you are trying to find any possible excuse to try to make me look scummy when I'm pretty obv town makes you look very bad lmao

But since you asked, once again- things I addressed that you ignored:

@absta: My reads can change. Natalie made a horrible post that completely changed my views on her. I'm not set in my beliefs.

And yes it's dumb but sometimes I can read posts out of order. You can tell this because of all my posts responding to multiple things at a time. I understand your reasoning and there is logic behind it but you're wrong here. Just look at how I post in general- a lot of my responses may seem out of order.

and another time you tried to blatantly misrepresent me and I corrected, but you ignored:

IMO
if BK is legit
narrow down the playerlist
(BEFORE REPLACEMENTS- OBV)
and pick out the players that are noob/dumb enough to accept a jailkeeper

This is why I wanted to narrow it down. Your way doesn't work and it's scummy.
- How the fuck can you clear everyone that replaced in, their slot could still have been the one to choose JK.
----

@BK

How confident are you of your tell?

...that's not what I'm saying.
I never said "clear the replacements"
I'm saying, don't base your reads on the replacements, base it on the original players.

For example...
I don't think that Deas is dumb enough to pick Jailkeeper.
But Monty?
Probably.

You understand what I'm saying now?

[xRECKONERx]

Both you and Shamrock are looking great. /sarcasm

Tell me, absta, what was your intention with this post?

[Brandi]

He has this weird fetish with himself where he thinks that the way something looks to him obviously looks the same to everyone else
there's also the fact that he's wrong about everything

[DeasVail]

Panda is most likely town. At a time when Nat was safe, she encouraged the vig to kill Panda. She even said "Slaandar's plan is foolproof".

I disagree with this reasoning.

[BK201]

Panda is most likely town. At a time when Nat was safe, she encouraged the vig to kill Panda. She even said "Slaandar's plan is foolproof".

I disagree with this reasoning.

Why?

[DeasVail]

Because Nat supporting a plan to vig Panda that is already in place doesn't make a vig on Panda all that much more likely, and has the benefit of distancing them.

[BK201]

Because Nat supporting a plan to vig Panda that is already in place doesn't make a vig on Panda all that much more likely, and has the benefit of distancing them.

You have a point, but the how she went about saying it to me says she didn't care. If Panda was a scumbuddy she would have thrown WIFOM into it. Instead of saying...

And Slandaar's plan is pretty foolproof. Why would you still want Elmo to be lynched after looking at it? Unless you can find a major flaw in it, I don't see the town motivation in you wanting Panda dead.

She would have said something with a bunch of WIFOM like...

Shamrock is getting up there as well, but I don't want to lynch him today.

or

BK isn't cleared, since I find it strange if scum actually chose jailkeeper. But it's possible.

or

Monty is scummy for being worried about a possible conf-town (Slandaar), parking his vote on Nora, and then flaking. But his wagon does worry me since it is (or was) a pretty large wagon for a player with six posts.

She could have easily said "Panda is probably the best vig target, but....WIFOM." It could have been distancing like you are saying, I just don't agree.

[Purrfect Panda]

Rach head here I was re-looking at Nat's ISO and saw this...

Put it in spoiler for those who dont want to read the wall and then at the bottom is my points on this quote. It is post 383.

Spoiler:

Why would the vig out himself? And since he didn't and Elmo got reads from what he did, please explain how his actions were anti-town.

If someone essentially claims scum.
You -honestly- think that town is going to ignore it and scum are the only ones going to hop on?
In my experience, someone claiming scum causes scum too be confused/not vote. They are too paranoid about a townie claiming scum and don't want to take "easy" bait; etc.

So why aren't you jumping on Sawyer/Starbuck?

And town is actually very likely to quicklynch someone who claims scum. Why wouldn't they? Not every townie is cautious in that manner.
Like you said "responsible town"
Not every town is responsible.
I've seen townie's claiming scum ruin entire games.
Also I disagree with Slandaar's idea being "fool proof"
as I outlined in an earlier post.

I don't think he would've been quicklynched. And I don't think he claimed scum either.

Now, as I said claiming scum as town *could* cause the town to quicklynch you-
Now a townie that was a lot less likely to die that day- is dead. It's a distraction away from scum.

But he didn't claim scum and he wasn't quicklynched...so what's your point?

And then there's the whole "oh let's just have the vig shoot him"
-if he's town... that's wasting a VIG shot on a townie.

But you don't understand the plan. The only way for Panda to know if there is a vig in this setup is if he is scum or the vig. (And it's highly unlikely he's the vig) So if he doesn't get shot tonight, that means there is no vig and he isn't scum.

All he's accomplishing is likely getting himself killed, and as town, despite that sometimes you have to die- you should never go out of your way to die on the basis of WIFOMing reactions from the town.

He's only getting himself killed if he's scum.

There's also the fact that I'm town, I know I'm town- yet somehow my reaction was seen as scummy.
He's successfully caused suspicion on a town member.
IF HE IS TOWN, and if there is a vig- and for my reaction to the "slip" you were to lynch me today- that would be
-3 townies.

1 from me being lynched,
1 from the scum kill,
1 from the "vig" kill.

You are blowing this way out of proportion. First off, if he gets shot by the vig, he's scum. And if we lynched you and you somehow flipped town, that would be one scum, two town down. If he doesn't get shot, it's two town and no scum. Not three town.

That is how what he did was anti-town.
You can't rely on reactions to claimed scum. It just generates WIFOM.

But he didn't claim scum!

Do you seriously think scum would INTENTIONALLY slip? Please tell me you aren't that stupid. Oh wait, you are:

Yes. Scum would slip intentionally if they want to throw the game. Hence my ":/" face.

No one comes to that conclusion when analyzing a "slip".

Keep in mind that Purrfect Panda had suspicion on him previously. That wasn't the first time that he was called out for being scummy.

So you think he would risk getting banned, risk getting Rach banned (playing against your wincon) and lose the game for his team all because he has suspicion on him?

Here is your terrible justification of your actions, which I will go through line by line.

Justification for my actions? voting for claimed scum is nothing I need to justify.

Well you thought you had to justify it.

No he didn't. And if you thought he claimed scum, you would say more than this:

...

You should have been screaming "OMG ELMO SLIPPED, KILL HIM WITH FIRE" rather than "that definitely looks like a slip, almost intentional :/" But of course you know he didn't slip because you are scum.

...

I'm not going to repeat myself about how you would have acted if you actually thought he slipped.

"No true scotsman"
"Relativist fallacy"

Just because you don't understand my reaction doesn't mean my reaction wasn't legitimate. I already explained a couple pages back why I reacted in that manner, though.

So you DID justify your actions, by explaining how you reacted.

Where did anyone say that Elmo was dumb enough to slip?

Here:

I mean seriously ffs. You think I'm that stupid to say I'm scum like that.

No, that isn't saying he is dumb enough to slip.

What would you expect him to say if it was a gambit?

Do you believe any townie who claims they are gambiting just because they say that they are?
Do you believe that all gambits are made by the town?

No, but you are saying that only scum when do what Elmo did, when if you think about it, town would act the same way around a gambit.

I have been V/LA most of the game, so EXCUSE ME if I didn't give you a play-by-play of my scumreads.

Sorry. That's my bad for... scumhunting. I shouldn't have been doing that. It won't happen again...

You're so cool.

I just don't understand why you have time to tunnel Brandi the entire game rather than also taking the time to question, and comment on, your other scumreads. V/LA has nothing to do with who you decide to talk about.

Brandi is my main scumread, so I'm going to focus on her the most.

@Sawyer
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and vote Brandi? Stop dilly-dallying around it. Don't want to sound hypocritical for accusing me of placing my vote on obvscum Brandi?

I'm not dilly-dallying around anything. My vote is on who I think is mostly likely to be scum. Brandi is certainly moving on up though.

This boys and girls is what we call a leaping point. Sawyer can now hop onto Brandi's wagon once she does one thing scummy because she's "moving up" on his scumlist.

Sawyer, why do you think it is a better idea to vig Panda than to lynch him?

Are you even reading this game?

Absta's case on Sawyer has piqued my interest. I will analyze it soon.

Rereading this wall I want to point out that Nat was not wishy washy about wanting us vigged. She also was wrong since vigs can shoot townies just as easy as scum, and she knew that I am sure. So yeah had the vig shot us last night it would not have made us scum it would have made us town just like we said. Notice that she commented on Sawyer a bit but not much and certainly did not suggest voting for him. I find that very suspicious, but I need some agreement from Elmo here he prefers a different scumspect.

[Sawyer]

@Sawyer

My alternate theory about you was wrong therefore you're back to being an option for me.
Btw, I still want an answer to why you were okay with killing Panda without a claim.

May I ask what the alternate theory was?

Sawyer could you explain yourself a tad there? You changed your vote without any reasons or case listed.

I'm gonna assume you're either high or talking to Shamrock.

No- I didn't lynch Nat for tunneling.
Her posts during the time of BK's claim are what made me suspect her.

First off: You originally said Nat had made "a horrible post" that completely changed your views on her. One post did that. Now you're saying her posts (plural) during the time of his claim are what did it. At first it was one "horrible post", now it's all of them (despite the fact that she had made one post between BK claiming and you voting her; a post that doesn't seem particularly damning at all).

Brandi is really fucking with my scumdar. The way Nat was tunneling her would says Brandi mostly likely town. But given how Brandi has gotten progressively more scummy since toward the end of Day 1, I'm gonna have consider the possibility that it was a bussing attempt. Brandi's wagon never did really pick up. It never got more than 3 votes, with the other main supporters being lurkers Monty (DV) and Kyle (Reckoner).

I'm in way too many goddamned games right now, seriously. I made a slight error in judgment when I signed up for so many at once.

I guess I don't really have any strong opinions one way or another, so I can just

vote: Sawyer

.

Bad vote is bad. You have no strong opinions, so you just hop on the biggest wagon? You wanna try scumhunting? You don't seem to be doing much.

Did you miss Slaandar's reason? Which I'm sure netted a vote or two.

I didn't miss it. I was still a bad reason. I had actually mentioned earlier in the game that Nat had said Scigatt was a scumread and questioned her on how that could be true when she had hardly acknowledged him. Why didn't any body vote her then?

Also, why aren't you voting me? Don't you think I'm scum? You sounded pretty sure of yourself yesterday.

He has this weird fetish with himself where he thinks that the way something looks to him obviously looks the same to everyone else
there's also the fact that he's wrong about everything

You think there was nothing wrong with him hopping on the biggest wagon with no reasons at all?

Notice that she commented on Sawyer a bit but not much and certainly did not suggest voting for him. I find that very suspicious, but I need some agreement from Elmo here he prefers a different scumspect.

Please reread part of my case against DV:

All of Code_X's post 643 is good. Despite how he feels about it now, all of Code's points still stand.

I had even pointed out earlier how Natalie listed Monty (DV) as a scumread without ever mentioning why and like Code said, she never attempted to vote or pressure him when his wagon was growing. Code also made note how though there was suspicious from DV toward Nat, if was only at a point where she was in no danger of being lynched.

So why are you singling me out when Nat did the same thing Monty/DV? Especially when Nat commented on me "a bit but not much and certainly did not suggest voting for [me]". Why would she suggest voting for me if she hardly commented on me? That makes no sense...

---

@Deas and Brandi

: Who's your number 2 suspect?

---

I'll be making another separate post continuing my case on DV and going deeper into my reads on people and why. Didn't want this post to get to long.

[Brandi]

First off: You originally said Nat had made "a horrible post" that completely changed your views on her. One post did that. Now you're saying her posts (plural) during the time of his claim are what did it. At first it was one "horrible post", now it's all of them (despite the fact that she had made one post between BK claiming and you voting her; a post that doesn't seem particularly damning at all).

so much reaching
semantics
lmao

So why are you singling me out

These right here are scum words.


Potential scum other than sawyer:
Absta/PP/DV/Reck depending on ~things~

As for a number #2?
If Sawyer is scum that increases the likliness of asbsta scum IMO
DV/Sawyer are not scum together
Reck/Sawyer are a slight maybe
Panda/Sawyer unlikely

[Brandi]

lol I love how much this guy tries to defend nat

hey sawyer
you realize your scumbuddy is dead right
you can quit acting like shes town and that votes for her were bad

Sawyer for #1 most obv scum lets lynch lynch lynch it

[Shamrock]

BK actually raises some good points in Panda's defense in #732. I'm beginning to think that I may indeed have been tunneling a little too hard on Panda.

First off: You originally said Nat had made "a horrible post" that completely changed your views on her. One post did that. Now you're saying her posts (plural) during the time of his claim are what did it. At first it was one "horrible post", now it's all of them (despite the fact that she had made one post between BK claiming and you voting her; a post that doesn't seem particularly damning at all).

loooooooooooooool

Brandi is really fucking with my scumdar. The way Nat was tunneling her would says Brandi mostly likely town. But given how Brandi has gotten progressively more scummy since toward the end of Day 1, I'm gonna have consider the possibility that it was a bussing attempt. Brandi's wagon never did really pick up. It never got more than 3 votes, with the other main supporters being lurkers Monty (DV) and Kyle (Reckoner).

Wtf? Brandi became "progressively more scummy toward the end of Day 1"? Brandi joined BK in starting a wagon on scum at the end of D1.

--

I think a Sawyer scumflip would indeed be very damning to absta. However, after looking over absta's ISO, he's already looking pretty scummy on his own. First he starts voting (busing) Natalie when he sees the wagon building on her, but he doesn't give reasoning, he's just "sheeping BK".

My vote on Nat is just sheeping BK. My vote on Panda is way more productive.

Vote: Panda

What I see here is scum seeing a wagon on a partner that looks sudden and inevitable and deciding to bus for a bit of towncred. Then, seeing that the lynch might not be inevitable after all, he uses a weak excuse to take his vote off his partner and put it on a town target instead.

Then he switches back to voting her again when the deadline is coming and it's obvious that there isn't going to be enough momentum on the Panda wagon after all.

Anyway absta is supascummy but I'm keeping my vote on Sawyer coz that's clearly where the productive wagon is. If I had a double vote I would have one on each.

[Sawyer]

@Brandi: Stop your whining. That's all you do. I get it, you're mad someone suspects you. Get over it. If you're not gonna defend yourself against my post, then don't respond. Simple concept. You also seemed to get a scumread on anyone that starts questioning you. Well, everyone except Natalie (until the very end of the day). You voted Monty when he voted for your slot; you didn't start getting suspicious of me until I started questioning you; and now it seems the same thing is gonna happen to absta. Interesting. Do me a favor and do two things for me:

1. Answer the question I asked you in my previous post about your post 728. It's weird you addressed everything else except that...

2. Please restate your case and reasons for voting me.

Reads

: Revised and Updated

Natalie once posted:

Big long post on Monday hopefully. Brandi, Scigatt, and Monty are my main scumreads.

I'm think it's safe to assume at least one of her scum buddies is one of those 3. Not thinking she'd be lynched Day 1, she probably wanted time to bus on of them. So I doubt that list is all town.

Absta

: Nat made note of how Absta was white knighting nora and they both argued on opposite ends of the nora incident pretty hard. I'd imagine if they were both scum, one would've gave into the other just to get more votes onto a certain wagon. Absta switched his vote on and off Nat 3 times or so at the end of the day, so that's questionable. But overall, I'm leaning town with him.

BK

: My read on him hasn't changed since post 682. I'm betting more likely town than lying scum.

Brandi

: Nothing much to say. People have seen our back and forths. They can decide for themselves how she stands. Otherwise, I'm now considering the possibility of a bussing attempt by Nat for reasons stated in my previous post.

DeasVail

: In addition to my case in post 682, I found more evidence here as supplied by... Brandi actually, back when DV replaced in.

Also, I found something else notable in this post:

Also, my top 3 favoured lynches at this stage probably are:

1. Sawyer
2. Panda/Elmo
3. Natalie

Someone feel free to convince me of scum-Nat if you want.

Natalie is one of his top 3 favored lynches, yet apparently he's not even convinced she's scum. Can't believe I missed that the first time.

Panda

: I'm still thinking most likely town, but his recent posts lack, well... thought. We'll see.

Reckoner

: Replaced a lurker. Not doing anything and hopped on my wagon just because. Null leaning scum

Starbuck

: Natalie wanted to bring attention to Starbucks reaction to Pandas "slip" and portray it as scummy (she put it in all caps, which makes me feel she wanted people to see it to turn against Starbuck). And on a number of occasions Starbuck made note of Nats tunneling and asked for her reads. Not much, but little things like that give me the impression that Star is more likely town.

---

I still consider Code X town for questioning and pointing out Nats drastic change in play. And I'm still totally null on Shamrock

---

loooooooooooooool

Yeah, hilarious. She said there was one post that changed her view. Now she says it was every post. Yeah, they're just contradictions. Who cares, right?

Wtf? Brandi became "progressively more scummy toward the end of Day 1"? Brandi joined BK in starting a wagon on scum at the end of D1.

Point? Anyone can put a vote on scum early in a wagon. So what? You weren't on the wagon at all. Should we lynch you?

[Brandi]

@Brandi: Stop your whining. That's all you do. I get it, you're mad someone suspects you. Get over it.

Holy projection batman!

[Brandi]

I didn't answer your question about 728 because I have no clue what you're talking about.

2. Please restate your case and reasons for voting me.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Shamrock]

Otherwise, BK is still alive and with a Vig out there. Maybe scum is that risky in choosing both of those roles and by letting one of them live in hope of getting him lynch. But should all that go wrong, it would fuck them up bad, so I'm gonna guess they're not that big of risk takers.

VOTE: BK

Wow that's wishy washy. Pretty much exactly the same kind of WIFOMy crap that Natalie was doing on all non-Brandi targets D1.

Though the fact that BK is still alive is suspicious, I'm not entirely surprised. And he's been acting more like town today than yesterday.

And a wish wash to the other side!

So your read on BK shifted completely based on his posts between your #655 and #682? BK posted basically nothing but fluff during that space:

Otherwise, BK is still alive and with a Vig out there. Maybe scum is that risky in choosing both of those roles and by letting one of them live in hope of getting him lynch. But should all that go wrong, it would fuck them up bad, so I'm gonna guess they're not that big of risk takers.

VOTE: BK

Do you have anything besides 'BK claimed JK and is alive'? Don't use this as an excuse to not scumhunt.

And Slandaar's plan is pretty foolproof. Why would you still want Elmo to be lynched after looking at it? Unless you can find a major flaw in it, I don't see the town motivation in you wanting Panda dead.

Panda is town. I don't think Nat is some genius scum who said this knowing she would die Day 1.

^ In other words, she was encouraging the Vig to shoot Panda. (Probably glad she didn't have to worry about it being on her or a buddy)

These posts changed your read on BK? Really? What, exactly, strikes you as "more like town than yesterday" here?

[Brandi]

Sawyer was probably expecting people to want to lynch BK for still being alive
then he realized it wasn't happening
silly scum

[Brandi]

Also
notice how there's multiple players that "suspect" me
but no one
literally no one
is voting me
scum is too scared to start my wagon
because if I did get mislynched they'd be fucked
looooooool

[Sawyer]

I didn't answer your question about 728 because I have no clue what you're talking about.

Allow me to be more specific then. Do you think there's nothing wrong with Reckoner hopping on the biggest wagon with no reason?

2. Please restate your case and reasons for voting me.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

So you don't have a case or reason.

Wow that's wishy washy. Pretty much exactly the same kind of WIFOMy crap that Natalie was doing on all non-Brandi targets D1.

Though the fact that BK is still alive is suspicious, I'm not entirely surprised. And he's been acting more like town today than yesterday.

And a wish wash to the other side!

So your read on BK shifted completely based on his posts between your #655 and #682? BK posted basically nothing but fluff during that space:

...

These posts changed your read on BK? Really? What, exactly, strikes you as "more like town than yesterday" here?

If you want to know why I changed my mind about BK, read one line above the sentence you quoted.

As for a number #2?
If Sawyer is scum that increases the likliness of asbsta scum IMO
DV/Sawyer are not scum together
Reck/Sawyer are a slight maybe
Panda/Sawyer unlikely

I actually missed this earlier. I meant to say who's you're number two suspect right now. No "if Sawyer's scum". Who's you're next highest scum read.

Also
notice how there's multiple players that "suspect" me
but no one
literally no one
is voting me
scum is too scared to start my wagon
because if I did get mislynched they'd be fucked
looooooool

*Supposed town gets mislynched*

*Scum get fucked*

Not seeing the logic there.

---

@Everyone

:Ok, so I'm sticking with a DV lynch for today. If he somehow flips town, then it will be Brandi. Until more scum are outed or either of them are somehow proven innocent, that's gonna be the order and I'm not changing it. My vote will remain on DV for the remainder of the day. It's not moving unless claims deem it necessary. The DV case is out there and clear as day and the connections between his slot and Nat are obvious. It would be wise if you put it to good use (the smart people anyway; I'm not expecting anything out of Brandi).

[Brandi]

Allow me to be more specific then. Do you think there's nothing wrong with Reckoner hopping on the biggest wagon with no reason?

From what I've seen of his play- that's pretty standard.
Unless there's someone else here who's played with him enough to see this as scummy I don't have a problem with it considering a vote for you is a vote for scum!

So you don't have a case or reason.

I never made a case.
I have reasons though.
See: Your posts

*Supposed town gets mislynched*

*Scum get fucked*

Not seeing the logic there.

You're either playing dumb or very shortsighted. Maybe both.

[xRECKONERx]

I just skimmed all of the above and am anxiously awaiting Starbuck's return.

[Robocopter87]

Someone may or may not have forgotten to prod her.

Starbuck has been prodded.

[Shamrock]

Starbuck is V/LA...

[Brandi]

I just skimmed all of the above and am anxiously awaiting Starbuck's return.

you can give your own opinions on things without waiting for others, you know.