Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: Solidstate

The case that mcstab presented on me, which you agreed with included two parts I would like to draw your attention to:
A) Elmo quicklynch. Defender was anti-Elmo wagon AND so were you!
B) I was lurker voting. Since you can't be voting for defender for the anti wagon comments, you must be voting him for lurking. If i am scummy for lurker voting, why is it ok when you do it?

Basically, you seem to be jumping on any wagon with wheels.

[solidstate]

@Seil: Keep in mind Yoshi isn't confirmed town, and don't call him that. We have no evidence at all that he is town, and any scum at L-1 is going to make a PR claim in his situation. Its just that its safer for the town to lynch someone else. But if you die, the town will be well-advised to lynch him. If he is still alive in a couple days, the town will be well-advised to lynch him (because if he's really a doctor, the scum will have to kill him to get to you). Applejack alluded to this as well, I think. There's really no reason to treat him as any less scummy, he's just more or less lynchproof for the day.

@Yoshi: See how easy actually voting instead of threatening to vote is? Your reasons are still shit, though.

First, there are elements in mcstab's case that have nothing to do with A or B above. For instance, his commentary on 130, which wasn't in earlier cases. I've also mentioned my suspicion in terms of your buddy attitude toward me, which you refuse to address (being sure someone is town is scummy because only scum knows for sure).

As for wagon timing: For a long time I wasn't on a wagon, I was on RBD by myself due to the whole pony-vibe. But eventually, its productive to join a wagon. Its called contributing to moving the game along. Ba-ba-ba until you fall asleep for all I care, but if everyone just stubbornly sat around on their own votes, the game would go nowhere and eventually the NKs would kill us all. No one should feel pressured to avoid wagons they agree with; THAT is antitown for sure.

Otherwise, your attitude is also becoming even scummier. Threatening votes isn't real scum-hunting. Voting is scum-hunting. If you think someone is scum, you vote for them. Instead, you got mad and threatened me, and that approach just makes it look like really bitter OMGUS ('I called solidstate town and he voted for me? *rage*).

[McStab]

Hmm, so Elmo, PB, seilkops, mcstab, defender and Sivure are all in various stages of inactivity.

Of the 7 players left: bitmap, inte, myself and the ponies don't interest me.

Which leaves soldistate or demon core as interest points. Demon core is onto me for unspecified reasons. Still waiting on more clarification there.

Soldistate seems more town than anyone

. Willing to bet that our 6 inactives contain the scum. Also probably why Sivure wanted to replace out, no?

I am watching that slot like a hawk now. Maybe we should just lynch the slot to save yabba the work?

Why the sudden change of heart?

I don't care if he claimed doc, I want to lynch him now. He's scum. There's no point in letting scum live.

[Applejack]

I've never played with either of these ponies (RD,AJ), but I don't like their buddy buddyness.

We've played together in several games, with the most recent two as opposite alignments. I'm hoping we're on the same side this time because a pony alliance would make this game at least 20% cooler; it might be the same with Rainbowdash.

You weren't even here so you can't say "oh doom yoshi isn't scumhunting". you know who isn't scumhunting? The 6 inactives we had!!

Does this mean the other 7 active players were scum hunting and that you thought they were all town?

[inte]

hey yoshi man this isn't looking good

[DoomYoshi]

Hmm, so Elmo, PB, seilkops, mcstab, defender and Sivure are all in various stages of inactivity.

Of the 7 players left: bitmap, inte, myself and the ponies don't interest me.

Which leaves soldistate or demon core as interest points. Demon core is onto me for unspecified reasons. Still waiting on more clarification there.

Soldistate seems more town than anyone

. Willing to bet that our 6 inactives contain the scum. Also probably why Sivure wanted to replace out, no?

I am watching that slot like a hawk now. Maybe we should just lynch the slot to save yabba the work?

Why the sudden change of heart?

I don't care if he claimed doc, I want to lynch him now. He's scum. There's no point in letting scum live.

I have presented in two posts why the sudden change in heart.

I've never played with either of these ponies (RD,AJ), but I don't like their buddy buddyness.

We've played together in several games, with the most recent two as opposite alignments. I'm hoping we're on the same side this time because a pony alliance would make this game at least 20% cooler; it might be the same with Rainbowdash.

You weren't even here so you can't say "oh doom yoshi isn't scumhunting". you know who isn't scumhunting? The 6 inactives we had!!

Does this mean the other 7 active players were scum hunting and that you thought they were all town?

No, I was pointing out the hypocritical mess of an argument, not trying to defend active players.

hey yoshi man this isn't looking good

Agreed.

Mcstab, soldistate, I'm sorry I was mean to you. Now that I have dropped the attitude, i still think a)soldistate is mindlessly bandwagoning and b)mindlessly bandwagoning is scummy.

[McStab]

All other things aside, I didn't take anything personally, I hope you haven't taken anything I've said personally either. It's all in good fun.

[DoomYoshi]

K.

Could you address my replies to your points for the reasons I am scum? Or do you concede all open points?

[McStab]

However, for the sake of actually being on a wagon since no one is on RBD with me, I'll
UNVOTE:
VOTE: inte

And this wasn't shamelessly bandwagoning? Solidstate's behaviour hasn't changed, you've just started attacking it because he's bandwagoning against you.

[inte]

However, for the sake of actually being on a wagon since no one is on RBD with me, I'll
UNVOTE:
VOTE: inte

[solidstate]

Mcstab, while I agree his behavior is not good, I don't think we should lynch him today and I'm not going to move my vote back. Seil is extremely valuable to the town, and so keeping around a potential doctor is important. Also (and I think this is what Applejack was implying) having more claimed/known identities will make our hunting more accurate. Yoshi will be under suspicion as long as he lives (and more so the longer he lives, in fact) so locating another suspect is efficient.

[inte]

ima go ahead and put you into my town pocket

for now

[seilkops]

It would take a counter-claim for me to move my vote back to DY. I really don't think we should try and make him our main wagon today, McStab. A doc is a doc, no matter how bad you think he plays.

[Rainbowdash]

ima go ahead and put you into my town pocket

for now

How? I completely fine lynching soild right now, his last few posts have been beyond awful.

@Mcstab - Why a PR lynch? You saw how that worked in the past when I got the "scummy PR" lynched, leaving DY alive tells us a lot about the setup that only scum would know at this point.

[Cartographer]

I am back after a brief vacation. I will make a post after 5 o'clock today. Perhaps earlier, if I can find time.

Thank you.

[inte]

ima go ahead and put you into my town pocket

for now

How? I completely fine lynching soild right now, his last few posts have been beyond awful.

@Mcstab - Why a PR lynch? You saw how that worked in the past when I got the "scummy PR" lynched, leaving DY alive tells us a lot about the setup that only scum would know at this point.

it was a tentative "eh i can see myself saying that as town" moment

[Cartographer]

We seem to agree that solidstate is town, so I don't see what the disagreement is...?

We agree

now

, yes. At the time of your post, you were calling other players town, mentioned DoomYoshi and Solidstate, and withheld your opinion of Solid. I am sorry if this seems too trivial or argumentative, Apple; but what was your read at the time of the post I originally mentioned?

Rainbow, why have you not answered my questions? Moreover, you will explain the "obvious" conclusions you mentioned in this post. Not everyone is used to the formalities or concepts of this site. I hope I am not just saying that about myself.

I am surprised no one said anything about this after you specifically said in this post that you withhold information as scum.

I have a problem with your play, Rainbow. This problem also slightly applies to Applejack as well. However, I fear I may be close minded with regards to Applejack. I just do not trust her. Continuing, Rainbow (and Applejack) you both are calling numerous players town at a very early stage in the game whilst only passively pushing the players you are calling scum. Where is your conviction? Where is your reasoning?

Before I forget, Apple, I very much dislike your comment toward inte. The comment tiptoes the line of sleuthing for his role and contributes largely to the reason that I do not trust you.

McStab, is this your normal behavior?

Seilkops, who are you referring to when you say 2 conf townies? I hope yourself and DoomYoshi?

Yabba

, my second post contains a tag error (a URL tag error to be more specific). Could you correct it, please?

Fixed! ~yabb

Many thanks.

Potentially more when I get home. I have to go now.

[inte]

their style of play is ... pro-scum, but is not alignment indicative

you have to wade through the bullshit

[yabbaguy]

Vote Count:

13 alive, 7 to lynch

D3f3nd3r (4) - Elmo TeH AzN, Rainbowdash, Applejack, solidstate
DoomYoshi (2) - Cartographer, McStab
Applejack (2) - D3f3nd3r, seilkops
Demon Core (1) - Prolapsed Brain
Cartographer (1) - inte
solidstate (1) - DoomYoshi

Not Voting: Bitmap, Demon Core

Deadline: Sep. 25

[Applejack]

We agree

now

, yes. At the time of your post, you were calling other players town, mentioned DoomYoshi and Solidstate, and withheld your opinion of Solid. I am sorry if this seems too trivial or argumentative, Apple; but what was your read at the time of the post I originally mentioned?

At the time of post 117, I had a null read on solidstate but disliked that he was mostly pointing things out but not being proactive about it. By the time you questioned me in post 145, I had a town read of solidstate, as seen in post 125.

I have a problem with your play, Rainbow. This problem also slightly applies to Applejack as well. However, I fear I may be close minded with regards to Applejack. I just do not trust her. Continuing, Rainbow (and Applejack) you both are calling numerous players town at a very early stage in the game whilst only passively pushing the players you are calling scum. Where is your conviction? Where is your reasoning?

Quoth Petyr Baelish: Not trusting

me

us was the wisest thing you've done

since stepping off your horse

.

Anyway, if you'd like reasoning for a specific player, feel free to ask. Early game is one of the best -- if not

the

best -- times to get town reads, as town will be acting naturally, and that's easy to catch; furthermore, as town, one knows how one is acting and can spot that in others, as well.

I'm only passively pushing people because I haven't gotten a scum read strong enough to justify doing so. At the moment, I have a few town reads, quite a few null reads, and a couple of people I'm sitting on (you, after Siveure DtTrikyp's odd behavior prior to replacing out, and D3f3nd3r, who is probably going to flake from this game).

Before I forget, Apple, I very much dislike your comment toward inte. The comment tiptoes the line of sleuthing for his role and contributes largely to the reason that I do not trust you.

I worded that poorly. I wanted to know if inte somehow had a town read of D3f3nd3r and, if he did, to explain it because I wasn't seeing it.

I can see what you're saying if inte was trying to defend D3f3nd3r, but he's not; he's basically said to let D3f3nd3r be vigged. Rhetorical question: Can you think of any role where that sort of request is justified?

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow, why have you not answered my questions?

1) It feels like a town question from a "well maybe it would have worked" standpoint
2) She essentially claimed VT in an earlier post without trying. This is a tell I often work with that is way more accurate than picking at random.

Moreover, you will explain the "obvious" conclusions you mentioned in this post. Not everyone is used to the formalities or concepts of this site. I hope I am not just saying that about myself.

Its a semi-open setup. Conclusions can be instantly drawn about the setup by what happens tonight, will explain if im alive tomorrow but really think about it, this isnt really the complex aspect of this setup. Claiming in tiers is where it gets more heavily theoried.

I have a problem with your play, Rainbow. This problem also slightly applies to Applejack as well. However, I fear I may be close minded with regards to Applejack. I just do not trust her. Continuing, Rainbow (and Applejack) you both are calling numerous players town at a very early stage in the game whilst only passively pushing the players you are calling scum. Where is your conviction? Where is your reasoning?

I dont tend to get too riled up about town reads until they are under attack, then I go all loyalty mode and tend to defend them more then they defend themselves. Defender is scum for continually avoiding taking stances on most of the game, no clue why he is voting AJ right now and the only thing he really has commented on is apparently liking Elmo for town because he was victim of a random wagon.

[inte]

d3f3nd3r is like PMysterious or Pizzadudes7, but slightly easier to understand
If he is town, let him try to scumhunt and help do whatnot.
Eventually he will need to be picked off though
Its a waste of a lynch

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I'm going to move my vote here
VOTE: DoomYoshi

The ponies are not Dying today

[D3f3nd3r]

Those of you who want my meta:

Ask Inte. He's played a game with us both town and one with us both scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Those of you who want my meta:

Ask Inte. He's played a game with us both town and one with us both scum.

So instead of talking about the game you say we should listen to the player who is saying we shouldnt lynch you today?

Awesome.

Lynch now?