Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War Mafia (Endgame)

[sword_of_omens]

back from V/LA and am surprised to be still among the living...
I guess Commexo and Night each figured the other would kill me?

Also Shmu...if you DID redirect last night then whoever you redirected is confirmed town, seeing as there were 2 deaths...
problem is I still think you might be lying though, and that this might be just a gambit...

ugh...

i'm going to do some re-reading again...

[Flash]

There is no way in hell his ability redirects factionals(kills). It would be way too strong.

[Minimum]

Yarr. He said "active abilities" when he claimed.

[sword_of_omens]

yeh..i guess igot ahead of myself...
gonna try and slow it down a bit...go back and read everybody...

[Minimum]

Everyone not voting for RedCoyote should explain themselves.

[Shmugen]

Wishing for Red to claim.

[RedCoyote]

Minimum, you were the one that was very vocal about the fact that peta's block was what stopped the scum, not the Scattamun block. You cannot turn around and use that against me now just because Seraphim flipped town. You think I forgot about what you said on the issue?

In any case, Flash is the play here, I think. The only argument for his innocence when I can draw clear, obvious connections between both Tierce and Quilford is that "he's too obvtown to be scum"? Nah, I don't buy it. I've always hated those sorts of arguments anyways. I never let a player or relationship influence my game. chamber and Nexus are both nice guys that can play well, that doesn't necessarily mean they won't draw an anti-town alignment every once and a while. Thus, sometimes it's imperative to look past the buddy-buddy mindset and open your mind a bit to the idea that they may be playing so "obvtown" because they're scum. Lest we forget, it was Flash that was putting the heat on Gamma after his claim. It was Flash that was hot in the biscuit to get MoI killed off. It was Flash that "knew" MoI's 1-in-3 was a lie. So, you know, you do the math. All these things are townie? I don't buy it.

Flash should be wagonned today. The only other potential move would be Shmug. At least Shmug should explain how he used his power last night. I'm totally confused about that.

SoO, Tammy, and Bella need to be talking more as well. Mina has been trying to railroad me pretty much since the beginning of this game, so I don't think this back-and-forth is anything new. There are more people in this game than just me, you, Shmug, and Flash.

Also, out of curiousity, are y'all both in agreement in regards to me, Minimum? It seems like Mina is making a majority of the posts. I already know Mina is crazy about me and has been since D1. Does CES concur with Flash as "obvtown" and me as "obvscum"?

[Minimum]

open your mind a bit to the idea that they may be playing so "obvtown" because they're scum.

[Minimum]

(Oh and when did I mention the Scattamun block?

Also, what's the scum incentive for putting heat on Gamma? Are you really going to pretend that the MoIlynch is not basically entirely MoI's fault? Do you think scum would just come forth and say that they know MoI's lying that easily?

Your hydra question is uninteresting. Also,what is your position on us alignmentwise?)

[Minimum]

Probably should've just looked up the answer to that last question. You may ignore it and I'll just simply say that you're completely wrong as to who has been doing most of the posting.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, okay. So flip the players then. CES has the crush on me. What does Mina think? I assumed it was the other way around because your posts are usually so much shorter, CES.

Also you can criticize me all you want. Lord knows I've been your punching bag for most of the game. That doesn't change the fact that you guys are on the record as Flash's buddy. I have to bring it up. If I can't get you guys to consider what's right in front of you, hopefully the other players will notice it.

The scum incentive for putting heat on Gamma is to give his results a lack of creditability. That whole nonsensical argument about transcendent powers? You want to talk misdirection, boy, there you go. MoI brought his lynch on himself, no doubt about it, but are you going to tell me scum weren't high fiving over that (well, I guess they couldn't since all but one is dead, but you get the idea)? There

was

scum on that wagon, Minimum. I'll stake anything on it. Scum want to be seen as right and considerate. Maybe Flash predicting MoI's lie gave him credit in your eyes? It undoubtedly did since, after all, he's so "obvtown" in everything he does.

You can laugh all you want, but don't be too dismissive. Because I do know one thing about this game that you don't. I am town and two other people here aren't. So if I do get lynched today, then y'all better have some thoughts on the rest of the players.

[Tammy]

Sorry, I've been distracted and busy past couple days.

If I don't catch up tonight when I get home, I promise tomorrow after work.

[sword_of_omens]

sorry guys, work has been rough this week..
i'll should be able to give this the attention it deserves by tomorrow at the latest...

[Tammy]

Okay so, I woke up,from a nap with every intention of catching up, but I'm exhausted, don't feel good and need to finish preparing to teach someone else's classes tomorrow and a few other things before I can go back to bed, so i thought it would be more fun to whine apparently. I'm putting this off until tomorrow when I get hme.

One thing though. I don't know how much can be made of the people on the moi lynch, at least just for the sake of being there. I think rc has more of a,point when he looks at people's motivations in light of previous days, ie flash being certain he was lying, but that everyone wo was on it should take some heat is something I don't agree with. I think everyone else but me maybe was on the lynch, and I can only be excused from that because I was on vacation when it happened, and it happened pretty quickly so whoever wasn't on it just might not have had time to jump n. Also, people lynched based on what was essentially a cop guilty of sorts. And since there's more than one faction so it's not like scum jumped on for what they new was an easy mislynch. Night could have really believed he was commexo and vice versa.

I'm a little embarrassed at the number of speeding and punctuation errors I know are in this post. Tomorrow, I can make more sense tomorrow.

[Shmugen]

Prod-dodging. Question stands.

[Minimum]

Look here now - if no one feels like properly playing this game, well I still do, so just let me pick the lynches?

[Tammy]

Yarr. He said "active abilities" when he claimed.

I feel like an idiot now. I thought if it came down to it and night was the only one left before 3 person lylo, Shmugen was our chance to redirect a kill and help town.

[Tammy]

Bella - Can you explain what changed for you for Seraphim between the first post and the second post. Do you typically base scum reads on wagon analysis?

Well, roughly 400 posts and two lynches worth of information happened. That has a way of influencing opinions.

I typically base scum reads on whatever the hell is available to me. Wagon analysis is a useful tool at times. Apparently not this one, but Scumhunting isn;'t an exact science.

Why has this been literally your only contribution this week? You've been on site each day since this and you can't be bothered to do anything but answer this question in a kind of weirdly semi-aggressive and dismissive way?

The fact is that it doesn't matter that there were 400 posts between that and two lynches. One of those lynches was basically a cop guilty that happened pretty fast. And the day three lynch switched from me to Quilford in a rather short amount of time as well. Did you take that into account when you decided by wagon analysis Seraphim was likely guilty? Did you check to see if Seraphim was even online or posted during the times of the changes of those two lynches? (Hint: He wasn't) His Post 1392 was before the Quilford incident and his next Post 1553 in which he declares he's back from V/LA is after MoI was lynched.

So those two lynches of information had no bearing on Seraphim whatsoever and if you would have actually done the proper research you would know that.

So, what made you change from thinking actual words of his sounded like town to deciding faulty wagon information made him likely scum? And do you tend to prioritize wagon analysis over behavior?

[Flash]

Vote RC

I've done a lot of rereading and I'm fairly positive that Tammy is the last mafia member. If we are going to have to gamble on the SK lynch either way (and I do feel its a gamble between RC and shmu even after rereading) its better to take that gamble today, where a crosskill can save us if we fuck up, than tomorrow when it just looses us the game.

[sword_of_omens]

@Flash, i agree that Commexo needs to take priority over Night for today's lynch, but why RC over Shmu?

Remember Shmu had "forgotten" about his redirect ability:

I realized it when I read my role PM when I joined the game. I apparently forgot right around the time I mentioned being confirmable through redirecting. My memory was jogged when we talked about jailkeeping interfering, I recalled then that it was my self-protect ability that was interfered with by blockers, I was trying to figure if the jailkeeper who blocked my redirect would then be free to choose whomever they wished.

As for what I should have asked the mod vs didn't, this is my first time with any kind of redirecting role that would cause conflicts. I didn't ask because when I remember what the ability actually is, mistakes don't make sense, minus cops of varying sanities. A cop would find themselves innocent, a mafia cop would find themselves guilty, a watcher would see me visit them which I could then explain, etc.

For the record, I am embarassed I got mixed up.

could it be because he never really had it?
He probably wouldn't pay much attention to it if it was on his fakeclaim…like i said, all it really does is cover him as far as showing he can target someone if he's tracked..


Also, look at the Night aligned powers…why would town have a redirect-to-self power that would be pretty much useless against Night? It would hinderance to town more than anything else?

Staeg –

R/B (Dragon)

Shinori –

Day Sac Vig (uselss to redirect)

Tierce –

Non Consec Befouler (useless to redirect)

Quilford –

Key Dep Janitor (uselss to redirect)

I still think Shmu makes more sense as Commexo…

Vote: Shmugen

[Bella]

Why has this been literally your only contribution this week? You've been on site each day since this and you can't be bothered to do anything but answer this question in a kind of weirdly semi-aggressive and dismissive way?

I tend to believe that not posting when you have nothing to say is better than posting fluff when you have nothing to say because you want to seem active.

The fact is that it doesn't matter that there were 400 posts between that and two lynches. One of those lynches was basically a cop guilty that happened pretty fast. And the day three lynch switched from me to Quilford in a rather short amount of time as well. Did you take that into account when you decided by wagon analysis Seraphim was likely guilty? Did you check to see if Seraphim was even online or posted during the times of the changes of those two lynches? (Hint: He wasn't) His Post 1392 was before the Quilford incident and his next Post 1553 in which he declares he's back from V/LA is after MoI was lynched.

So those two lynches of information had no bearing on Seraphim whatsoever and if you would have actually done the proper research you would know that.

This is ridiculous. Reads are not independent of each other. They are informed by how you read other people. 400 posts and two lynches confirmed other players as town, whittling down the suspect pool and thus leading to reevaluations of existing players. Specifically the MoI lynch radically affected the way the game was read - prior to the reveal that he was a lying clownfuck playing against his wincon townie, a reasonable person would have to assume that one of four people (MoI and the 1-in-3) had to be scum. With this assumption removed from play, things change in a major way.

So, what made you change from thinking actual words of his sounded like town to deciding faulty wagon information made him likely scum? And do you tend to prioritize wagon analysis over behavior?

No, I don't. I tend to prioritize whatever the hell evidence is in front of me, whether it pans out or not.

[Shmugen]

Redirecting Tierce or Quilford would have done things. The Janitor wouldn't have been able to clean the kill, if I understand how the role works, and Tierce would have presumably befouled herself.

[RedCoyote]

What difference does it make if we hit Commexo or Night first? I don't understand.

[sword_of_omens]

no.
Tierce befouling herself would be useless for town as it would make her untargettable (as her power is a scum-aid)
Quilford would need the KEY to make his power work anyway..so yeh..pretty worthless

[sword_of_omens]

@RC:

You are Commexo aligned. You win when there are three or fewer players alive, you are one of those players, and it is currently a Session. (If four players are alive, and one is lynched, you will win - the win condition "checks" after the lynch occurs but before a Recess is called.) Additionally, the check for this win condition occurs before the checks for the Day/Night win conditions