Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War Mafia (Endgame)

[RedCoyote]

I see. That makes sense.

Well, okay then. If I had to guess at the most likely Commexo, it would probably be Shmug. I think Flash is a valid candidate, but I think he's more likely to be Night than Commexo.

Unvote

;

vote: Shmugen

[Shmugen]

RC or Flash as Commexo, I think. I redirected RC last night.

Vote: RC

[Minimum]

Tierce befouling herself would be useless for town as it would make her untargettable (as her power is a scum-aid)
Quilford would need the KEY to make his power work anyway..so yeh..pretty worthless

Tierce being untargettable pales in comparison to having a protection target being made untargettable or one of her team mates turning into a Ninja Strongman. And it still works on the entirety of Quilford's power, so really your argument against Shmugen's role becomes merely the fact that it doesn't work on exactly one of the 4 flipped scum roles. That's not a good argument.

[Minimum]

Can we lynch the guy now who's pretending that "he's too obvtown to be scum" is something you can reject as an argument?

[sword_of_omens]

@MOD: i'll be V/LA for the weekend as per my usual, please

[hitogoroshi]

"What are you thinking about?" said John Mischief.

"Writing my memoirs," Candy replied.

"You’re a bit young to be doing that, aren’t you?" said John Moot.

"Well, this is a special situation," Candy replied. "I feel as though…" She stopped, because she could feel tears rising up in her again.

"Go on," said John Slop. "You feel as though… "

"If I don’t remember all this now then maybe I’ll lose it."

"You won’t lose it," John Fillet said.

"Are you sure?" Candy said. "My aunt Jessica got this disease called Alzheimer’s. And bit by bit she forgot everything in her life. We had to put signs up all over her house, so she’d be reminded to do even simple things. Locking the doors, turning lights off. Then she started to forget the names of her friends, and then her own family. It was horrible. For her, for everybody. Suppose the same thing happened to me, only all the things I forgot were all the things about Abarat?"

"But this is different, Candy. This is a two-way street."

"I don’t understand."

"It’s not just a question of you remembering Abarat. Abarat is also going to remember you."

Now the tears did fill Candy’s eyes. "It will?" she said.

"Oh yes," said Mischief. "Tell her, brothers."

"Yes!" the John brothers all said in chorus. "Yes! Yes! Yes!"

VC 48 (Session 6, VC 1)

(3)

RedCoyote:

Minimum, Flash, Shmugen [L-1!]

(2)

Shmugen:

sword_of_omens, RedCoyote
(0)

Flash

(RedCoyote)

(2)

Not Voting:

Tammy, Bella

(Minimum, RedCoyote, Flash, sword_of_omens, Shmugen)

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to secure a lynch.

Automatic Termination of the Sixth Session

(expired on 2012-09-22 19:00:00)

sword_of_omens is V/LA until Monday.

[Tammy]

Why has this been literally your only contribution this week? You've been on site each day since this and you can't be bothered to do anything but answer this question in a kind of weirdly semi-aggressive and dismissive way?

I tend to believe that not posting when you have nothing to say is better than posting fluff when you have nothing to say because you want to seem active.

Pretty dumbfounded at how you have literally nothing to say. We're extremely close to endgame. There's a commexo and night wandering around, and ou literally have nothing to say but that my observations or questions are ridiculous. Not one opinion on who night/comexo is? I'm not saying you should spam the thread or post fluff, but...contribute...a little?

The fact is that it doesn't matter that there were 400 posts between that and two lynches. One of those lynches was basically a cop guilty that happened pretty fast. And the day three lynch switched from me to Quilford in a rather short amount of time as well. Did you take that into account when you decided by wagon analysis Seraphim was likely guilty? Did you check to see if Seraphim was even online or posted during the times of the changes of those two lynches? (Hint: He wasn't) His Post 1392 was before the Quilford incident and his next Post 1553 in which he declares he's back from V/LA is after MoI was lynched.

So those two lynches of information had no bearing on Seraphim whatsoever and if you would have actually done the proper research you would know that.

This is ridiculous. Reads are not independent of each other. They are informed by how you read other people. 400 posts and two lynches confirmed other players as town, whittling down the suspect pool and thus leading to reevaluations of existing players. Specifically the MoI lynch radically affected the way the game was read - prior to the reveal that he was a lying clownfuck playing against his wincon townie, a reasonable person would have to assume that one of four people (MoI and the 1-in-3) had to be scum. With this assumption removed from play, things change in a major way.

This makes better sense but it's not ridiculous and the fact that you seem so agitated over being asked a simple question is very odd. What I'm looking at is seeing you look at a players words and saying that it doesn't make sense as scum, then looking at faulty wagon information and concluding he is scum. And I'm trying to figure out your thought process because it didnt make sense to me how you went from town to scum on seraphim.

I don't know I suppose it's possible that because we viewed moi's information In a different way we might have different views of,our reads. Maybe. I still cant get to how someone making town sounding posts became scum due to faulty wagons that he couldn't have Ben apart of that makes you fel so self righteous in your action/read.

So, what made you change from thinking actual words of his sounded like town to deciding faulty wagon information made him likely scum? And do you tend to prioritize wagon analysis over behavior?

No, I don't. I tend to prioritize whatever the hell evidence is in front of me, whether it pans out or not.

See this is the kind of cheeky answer that is uncalled for especially in light of present circumstances. You claimed that his words made no sense as scum and called him town, and then used incomplete wagon analysis to call him scum. I'm trying to figure out why ou keep negating that. What's weirder is that ou can't acknowledge that you used faulty analysis to call him scum.

[Tammy]

Can we lynch the guy now who's pretending that "he's too obvtown to be scum" is something you can reject as an argument?

? I'm not. Following?

Also, I guess my choice is between one town read or another town read...fabulous.

Although, red coyote I'm a little confused on your confusion of the comexo situation. Yesterday, minimum posted the win condition and I asked about it and gamma clarified. I again talked about it in my first post today that ou referenced, where I talked about how town could potentially lose if comexo was alive and survived tomorrow so I'm lost at how you didn't know this.

[Bella]

Why has this been literally your only contribution this week? You've been on site each day since this and you can't be bothered to do anything but answer this question in a kind of weirdly semi-aggressive and dismissive way?

I tend to believe that not posting when you have nothing to say is better than posting fluff when you have nothing to say because you want to seem active.

Pretty dumbfounded at how you have literally nothing to say. We're extremely close to endgame. There's a commexo and night wandering around, and ou literally have nothing to say but that my observations or questions are ridiculous. Not one opinion on who night/comexo is? I'm not saying you should spam the thread or post fluff, but...contribute...a little?

Hi. I'm posting. Just... not much because I don't have much to say. I'm not going to invent phantom cases just for the sake of doing something.

The fact is that it doesn't matter that there were 400 posts between that and two lynches. One of those lynches was basically a cop guilty that happened pretty fast. And the day three lynch switched from me to Quilford in a rather short amount of time as well. Did you take that into account when you decided by wagon analysis Seraphim was likely guilty? Did you check to see if Seraphim was even online or posted during the times of the changes of those two lynches? (Hint: He wasn't) His Post 1392 was before the Quilford incident and his next Post 1553 in which he declares he's back from V/LA is after MoI was lynched.

So those two lynches of information had no bearing on Seraphim whatsoever and if you would have actually done the proper research you would know that.

This is ridiculous. Reads are not independent of each other. They are informed by how you read other people. 400 posts and two lynches confirmed other players as town, whittling down the suspect pool and thus leading to reevaluations of existing players. Specifically the MoI lynch radically affected the way the game was read - prior to the reveal that he was a lying clownfuck playing against his wincon townie, a reasonable person would have to assume that one of four people (MoI and the 1-in-3) had to be scum. With this assumption removed from play, things change in a major way.

This makes better sense but it's not ridiculous and the fact that you seem so agitated over being asked a simple question is very odd. What I'm looking at is seeing you look at a players words and saying that it doesn't make sense as scum, then looking at faulty wagon information and concluding he is scum. And I'm trying to figure out your thought process because it didnt make sense to me how you went from town to scum on seraphim.

I don't know I suppose it's possible that because we viewed moi's information In a different way we might have different views of,our reads. Maybe. I still cant get to how someone making town sounding posts became scum due to faulty wagons that he couldn't have Ben apart of that makes you fel so self righteous in your action/read.

It is ridiculous to discount the fact that the state of the game completely changed between the two posts you compared. You attempted to do that. The state of the game at the point of the first post informs the opinions I drew - the fact that I was certain scum had to be somewhere else means I was inclined to interpret Seraphim's actions thusfar in a way that suppoerted my existing ideas. By the second post, the entire basis of the assumption that scum was elsewhere had been removed, uncercutting my prior assessment, which combined with what the wagon analysis demonstrated persuaded me that Seraphim was entirely possibly scum.

(Also, quit with the "faulty wagon analysis" line, the wagon analysis was entirely valid and certainly wasn't questioned by you until after it was proven false. Hindsight is 20-20.)

So, what made you change from thinking actual words of his sounded like town to deciding faulty wagon information made him likely scum? And do you tend to prioritize wagon analysis over behavior?

No, I don't. I tend to prioritize whatever the hell evidence is in front of me, whether it pans out or not.

See this is the kind of cheeky answer that is uncalled for especially in light of present circumstances. You claimed that his words made no sense as scum and called him town, and then used incomplete wagon analysis to call him scum. I'm trying to figure out why ou keep negating that. What's weirder is that ou can't acknowledge that you used faulty analysis to call him scum.

You asked me whether I have a tendency to do something. I do not have a tendency to do one or the other. I really don't see your problem with that?

[Tammy]

Why has this been literally your only contribution this week? You've been on site each day since this and you can't be bothered to do anything but answer this question in a kind of weirdly semi-aggressive and dismissive way?

I tend to believe that not posting when you have nothing to say is better than posting fluff when you have nothing to say because you want to seem active.

Pretty dumbfounded at how you have literally nothing to say. We're extremely close to endgame. There's a commexo and night wandering around, and ou literally have nothing to say but that my observations or questions are ridiculous. Not one opinion on who night/comexo is? I'm not saying you should spam the thread or post fluff, but...contribute...a little?

Hi. I'm posting. Just... not much because I don't have much to say. I'm not going to invent phantom cases just for the sake of doing something.

No, see this is where I'm not following. There aren't many people left and you're like totally mute about it. Where is anyone saying you need to post phantom cases? You're not even commenting on the game state. You've only been responding to me.

It is ridiculous to discount the fact that the state of the game completely changed between the two posts you compared. You attempted to do that. The state of the game at the point of the first post informs the opinions I drew - the fact that I was certain scum had to be somewhere else means I was inclined to interpret Seraphim's actions thusfar in a way that suppoerted my existing ideas. By the second post, the entire basis of the assumption that scum was elsewhere had been removed, uncercutting my prior assessment, which combined with what the wagon analysis demonstrated persuaded me that Seraphim was entirely possibly scum.

(Also, quit with the "faulty wagon analysis" line, the wagon analysis was entirely valid and certainly wasn't questioned by you until after it was proven false. Hindsight is 20-20.)

You are absolutely right that I didn't look at the wagon analysis before hand. I happen to almost never look at wagons before lylo. I'm not a numbers player at all; in fact when people post wagon analysis I tend to skip over it completely. I had a scum read on seraphim, and I didn't look much into why others did. But right now where there are only a few people left, I'm trying to make sense of your midset because it didn't seem to add up. But it doesn't matter whether or not I questioned it before, it was still false due to events, and I'm trying to get a handle on why you changed your read on him to help,me round out my read on you.

I didn't attempt to do anything but assess your mindset concerning the differentiation of your reads. When someone flips between a town read and a scum read and it seems off, I'm going to inquire on it, especially when I can't understand the change readily.

You asked me whether I have a tendency to do something. I do not have a tendency to do one or the other. I really don't see your problem with that?

I don't have a problem with that? I'm trying to understand you and why your read changed for what to me seemed odd reasons. It makes more sense since you explained it, probably not a change I would make, but everyone is not me, but I still think its important.

[Minimum]

? I'm not. Following?

That's what he did in #1831. (His buddy thing is also weird given that he didn't even know it was me.)

[RedCoyote]

Can we lynch the guy now who's pretending that "he's too obvtown to be scum" is something you can reject as an argument?

And tell me again how me disagreeing with you politically is a scumtell...? Perhaps you can take me to Mafia Discussion on this one, but we're not going to get past agreeing to disagree in this game, let me tell you.

I mean, I can say anyone is obvtown that I want to. It doesn't necessarily make it so in your eyes.

---

Also, I guess my choice is between one town read or another town read...fabulous.

So Bella is both your biggest Commexo and Night scumread?

Although, red coyote I'm a little confused on your confusion of the comexo situation. Yesterday, minimum posted the win condition and I asked about it and gamma clarified. I again talked about it in my first post today that ou referenced, where I talked about how town could potentially lose if comexo was alive and survived tomorrow so I'm lost at how you didn't know this.

Well, it's pretty par for the course given the other mistakes I've made in this game. And I didn't really read your gigantic opening post so much as I did agree with your ultimate conclusion that Bella should explain herself.

---

(His buddy thing is also weird given that he didn't even know it was me.)

I'm not trying to buddy to one head and dismiss the other. That would be kind of redundant. The only thing I wanted to know was whether there was a hydra disagreement on me. Especially given the fact that I know at least one of y'all has been reluctantly trying to move away from voting me on at least two occasions in this game. It would be nice to bring that sentiment back out to help lynch the strongest candidate for Commexo here today.

[Shmugen]

RedCoyote, you are at L-1 and have been for some time. Claim.

[Minimum]

Or hammer yourself; that also works.

And tell me again how me disagreeing with you politically is a scumtell...? Perhaps you can take me to Mafia Discussion on this one, but we're not going to get past agreeing to disagree in this game, let me tell you.

I mean, I can say anyone is obvtown that I want to. It doesn't necessarily make it so in your eyes.

You are allowed to disagree as to who is obvtown. But you do have to accept that being obvtown makes someone unlikely to be scum.

I'm not trying to buddy to one head and dismiss the other.

Not what I meant. You were suggesting that my read of Flash was based in part on personal stuff ("buddy buddy mindset") which is just sort of out there if it's Mina-Chamber/Nexus as opposed to CES-chamber.

[Tammy]

Also, I guess my choice is between one town read or another town read...fabulous.

So Bella is both your biggest Commexo and Night scumread?

No. I started off the day with my pet theory that flash was night and minimum was comexo, with Bella as an outside chance for one of those, but most likely night if so. However, it is becoming more and more evident that my pet theory was complete crap as its becoming pretty clear that at least one of them is town.

[hitogoroshi]

Flash has been prodded. Because Saturday hours do not count for activity, Bella is not yet eligible for a prod. sword_of_omens's activity clock began ticking today because of his V/LA.

[hitogoroshi]

Also: I'm throwing a big board game day on the 22nd, so I'm extending the deadline by one day. It'll be reflected in the next vote count. Thank Vlaada Chváti.

[Shmugen]

I've seen this sort of behavior out of RC before as scum.

[sword_of_omens]

Shmu...
Why did you redirect last night and not self BP?

[sword_of_omens]

With 1 commexo and 1 night...knowing you cannot redirect a kill, what is the town motivation for redirecting?

[RedCoyote]

What have we played, like, one game together, Shmu?

Not claiming unless someone not voting me asks me to.

---

But you do have to accept that being obvtown makes someone unlikely to be scum.

Nope, because your definition is clearly subjective. SoO is obvtown... and that's about it. I mean, goodness, how many last words do you think came from the mouths of townies in lylo saying that they're going to vote X because Y is "obvtown"? And that's not even taking into consideration the caliber of player chamber is (and I'm sure Nexus is as well, I just have less (if any) experience with him).

Not what I meant. You were suggesting that my read of Flash was based in part on personal stuff ("buddy buddy mindset") which is just sort of out there if it's Mina-Chamber/Nexus as opposed to CES-chamber.

I don't know which one of y'all likes/dislikes Flash, and I don't really care, frankly. I'm saying that one or both of y'all are probably letting your relationship with Flash influence that read.

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, actually, I checked. Just the one. That's kind of an unfair game to meta me with, imo. Polite Mafia was so out there in terms of post restrictions that it hardly makes for decent comparisons.

[Shmugen]

To mix it up a bit, try to get something interesting and new to happen.

[sword_of_omens]

By screwing with town?

[Shmugen]

Or by screwing with Commexo/Night if they're allowed to Active ability on the same turn they Factional.

You have no right to be crappy, Sword. I am constantly being asked at daybreak who I redirected. Every day I say I BP'd and every day I catch crap for it. I took a risk and tried to do something. If/When RC flips, we'll know what happened.