Micro 28: Kingmaker Game Over

[guille2015]

Since we are in twilight, I think we can still keep talking about stuff.

If Battousai allows us to bold the votes, then some of us can keep track of the votes.

If that is not allowed, we can simply go FOS: xxxx and bold that. Use that as a measure of votes.

[guille2015]

7) Posting in twilight is not acceptable! Once the King has spoken, the game is considered to be in Night.

Sorry, about that! I missed that rule and checked to late.

[guille2015]

Considering it was a stupid gambit. I think, Reck's slot is likely town. Not because of the gambit itself, but because I think mafia would have not planned this. Not confirmed town though, but good position at the moment.

I am for the King to stay quiet until it is time for them to execute. The king is not guaranteed to be town, so there are no big disadvantages to get outed. However, the King can make real hammer pressure on players and if the King is town, mafia would have to be careful who they piss off. Makes it easier to point them out.

ATM I only see Nacho, Maverick and Rachmarie as leaning Town. UTC is null, but has spent most of his time in defense and talking about mechanics.

This can read either one of two ways. First, he figured it was a reaction test and then responded like he believed it so he could actually act like he was contributing something. Second, he actually believed that UCT was executed that quickly, which in case his reaction was "oh, we can still keep talking about stuff. like keeping track of our votes!" instead of "what the fuck why did that lynch happen so quickly?".

So town should always react with a WTF? So, by your POV Klick should have a scumread too.

[guille2015]

Fair enough.

So, Klick realized it was a gambit and wanted to get UTC to mess up? It's a good plan, except that I very much doubt that many here thought it was a gambit. The same rule that teaches you how to execute says that if you try it without being the king you will be replaced. There is no other place (Other than how to No Kill) where the rules explain how to execute someone. So I think that anybody who has at least read that rule would immediately know that they should not impersonate the king, even mafia.

I have taken the bad habit of not reading the General Rules, since they mostly say the same things. So, it was unusual for me to see the no speaking on twilight rule. I am aware that some games do prevent speaking on twilight, and I try not to do it either way on any normal day. After posting, I wondered if there was something about twilight posting, so I did a quick ctrl-F to check it out. That's when I saw the rule for not posting in twilight.

In this game however, I feel that we should vote who we think is scum, like in any normal game. The nay-Sayers here are saying that this can influence the King's Decision. Yes of course, that's the whole point. We have to help the king make the right decision. Votes tells the King what the consensus is. That is not the only way of course. We should always give out our reads. Regardless, during twilight, especially since I didn't had a chance to voice my opinion. I gave it, because that is what I would have said if Reck had not attempted the execution. I think we should vote, for who we think is suspicious.

tl;dr: The reason that was my initial reaction is because that was my opinion after reading the posts about voting and RVS prior to the fake Execution, and I wanted to voice that opinion before the day ended.

Bonus: My town read on you, is because all said and done, you were the only one that started to look for anomalies in the reactions after the fake execution. I doubt there is scum motivation from your part in that. Before you posted, the talk was between considering UTC really scum or if the king should claim or how voting should work.

[guille2015]

Knowing who the king is doesn't particularly help us. I think it is actually wasted discussion.

@Klick and Empking: I find the idea of revealing the picks interesting, but I am thinking of it one way. Let's see if we match. Why were you interested in that.

I am aware that Batt disallowed the reveal. But I am interested what you guys think of the idea.

[guille2015]

Klick is likely town.

I missed post #84. I must say that the idea of giving out the picks was good. Not necessarily because its a sure way of catching scum, but it makes their time a lot harder. From post #84, I think Klick assumes that scum have individual picks instead of sharing 1 vote for the pick (townslip?). Empking gets + points too.

[guille2015]

Knowing who the king is doesn't particularly help us. I think it is actually wasted discussion.

I disagree with thid because it's given me a strong town read on Klick.

That doesn't make sense. Knowing who the king is and knowing who everyone voted for are two different things even though the latter also reveals the King.

[guille2015]

I will not be executing Empking, Klick, Rach, Maverick, or myself under any circumstances

My town read is pretty much the same, I would call all of them (including Nacho) town. The defensiveness of UTC has caught my eye, and his lack of scum hunting is nerving. Basically he has only been tunneling Empking. Additionally, AI and RXK are practically missing from the game. This is how I've seen AI play as both town and scum. But I'd lean more on scum on him. RXK makes me uneasy with his one-ish post of content.

I'd find scum in AI, RXK, and UCT (In no particular order). If I am wrong about my town read, I'd think it would be Empking or Rachmarie. Considering the options, I think I am probably wrong on my town reads, for at least one of them.

Before Nacho makes his decision, I'd like to have everyone who hasn't voiced their opinion to do so. Especially from Ai and RXK.

[guille2015]

The easy Lynch? There is nothing easy about it. Curiously I am an easy Lynch at this point.

I don't Think AI and RXK are scummy for not posting. AI a little. I take more in the content of their posts. I said RXK makes me uneasy with his post 58. Not scummy per say, but something I think scum would say.

The reason I mostly picked those three for scum was mostly out of elimination. I haven't seen anything from them that makes me think of them as town. The other 5 players, I've got town reads mostly.

@Nacho. What opinion do you mean? I thought that was what I said. That it coincides with your reads means nothing.

[guille2015]

Also, Mostly because I think that Nacho is Town. And I do not want him dead. And because he'll probably attempt to kill me. I will claim.

I am a

Hero

.

[guille2015]

I don't think it's a good Idea either. Plus, you can't guarantee that I will survive the night. I'd rather not give scum the power to Lynch, because in the end they would opt to go for a 1 for 1 trade instead of committing suicide. And I don't think to many town are eager to commit suicide also.

[guille2015]

1-1 trade is completely fine, IMO. We get scum. And if town gets chosen, they should realize that they will die anyway, so they shouldn't go for someone else, possibly getting another townie killed.

I'd rather just Kill the scummy person, than to give them a chance to kill someone else. If we think they are scummy, we kill them. Period.

Also, if you're killed, we can suspect the person we chose to be King.

If the chosen King is town, scum will likely kill me to make them scummy, if we are going to assume that. There is too much WIFOM in this situation.

[guille2015]

I know, I just think it's a bad idea and there is a better way. I cannot become the King anymore.

[guille2015]

@Mod: I will be V/LA until Tuesday 25th.

[guille2015]

just thought about a possibility. The mod could have picked some random villagers and given them to increase the voting for king. Having only the crier and assassins vote for king means that the crier would be the person who chooses the king each day, and that is more powerful than being the king alone.

^ This cannot be. This is an semi-open game. Your speculation sounds more of a bastard game, which this is not. The rules explain how the votes work.

[guille2015]

guile can you vote?

yes.

and can I just execute you right now?
would you be okay with that?

It is in your power, so you can try.
But I am not ok with that because I think you are town. If I'd thought you were scum I would not have revealed my PR.

When I get back home, I'll go into more details about how I am thinking about my PR.

[guille2015]

pa

Please enlighten me. But, seriously, if I am not playing the role right tell me how you would have played it.

[guille2015]

oh and in case he says yes, AI is town as fuck.

How is this the case?

1) At night,

certain roles will be able to vote for who the next King will be

. Players are to vote a first choice and a second choice for the King (which will be weighed at a 2:1 difference). The player with the highest weighed vote will be King, as long as they are alive. If they are killed at night, then it shall be the second player.

Ok, granted that some votes might not be allowed to vote based on this rule. However, the roles themselves on the OP, do not specify this. The only role that says anything about the votes is the town crier. However, it says "your vote counts twice as much as a regular villager." Which means that villagers are voting. I know I voted, I was told to vote in my PM. I think AI claimed he was a villager, and as a villager he should have been told to vote.

[guille2015]

I will address Klick's plan to Test me, by having a Scummy person execute me.

I think this is a bad idea, and here is why.

From your perspective, I am either Town or scum. The Plan is to ascertain my alignment. There are two basic scenarios, the chosen King is scum (A) or town (B).

A) Scum is picked as King. Whether I am town or Scum, they will kill someone other than me.
Conclusion: Lost a town player, found 1 scum, and my alignment was not verified. I could be either.

B) Town is picked as King. Assume they execute me. If I am scum, I die. If I am Town, they die.
Conclusion, 1 confirmed town, and 50/50 chance of killing scum.

But there is a problem. Scenario A is more likely to happen, because we would pick a scummy player, who is more likely than not to be mafia. Additionally, if scenario B were to happen, mafia would kill the confirmed town at the end of the day, so total earned knowledge = 0.

[guille2015]

Guile for me, if he's hero he's not played the role particularly well.

Please enlighten me. But, seriously, if I am not playing the role right tell me how you would have played it.

Yup, messed up quote.

[guille2015]

...well this game is unbalanced as hell.

In favor of who?

[guille2015]

Klick. Are you in agreement with Nacho's plan?

[guille2015]

Please enlighten me. But, seriously, if I am not playing the role right tell me how you would have played it.

By not claiming

If I didn't think that Nacho was Town, I would have not claimed. I don't want someone I think is town to Kill me.

I am actually reconsidering my read of Nacho though. The problem is that I do not know how Nacho plays when he is in the position of hammering. At this point he is asking around and changing his options. So, I do not know how aggressive Nacho plays as town. If he were aggressive he would have killed me or Uct before I had the chance to claim. Anybody here knows how Nacho is when he is the position of Hammer. Is he Aggressive or Considerate?

[guille2015]

Well, I'm glad Nacho is town, and that I did not get him killed.

So, UTC are you the King? Should we wait for everyone to check in or should he come and execute me right away? I'm ok with Utc shooting quickly.

[guille2015]

If UTC is scum, he will not shoot me. So, if that is the case, he should be tomorrow's Kill, if he executes someone else.

[guille2015]

If you do not execute me today, we execute you tomorrow. So, you might as well do it today. Plus that means you are scum if you don't.

[guille2015]

I'm going to shut up. I don't want UTC using my posts to sneak his way out of getting killed.

[guille2015]

Oh, if you shoot nacho, you are scum.

[guille2015]

I told you it was a bad Idea.

But you were right. If Rachmarie was Scum, It makes this plan feasible.

There is a chance that there is a third scum out there, but I figure we have to pick the towniest King.

Who should we pick as King tomorrow to kill UTC?

[guille2015]

AI has little the entire game. But that is a null tell for him. In his post #121, he got convinced I was scum by Rach. Not something I see AI scum doing.

The problem of course is the whole voting thing. From what I can tell he claimed villager and that he does not vote. Scum do vote, but their vote is pooled as 1 vote. Shouldn't scum be aware of the voting mechanic for every role?

[guille2015]

It was technically two mislynches. But yeah, this game suffered because we town didn't know how many mafia there were. If we'd known there was three, the game would have played differently. I admit, I thought about the possibility of there being 3 players when Nacho proposed his Rachmarie plan, but I failed to point it out later, hoping that I was wrong.

And Maverick, I did not play my role badly since if I had done what you said, Nacho would have attempted to kill me.

AI frustrated me. He spoke more in the Phineas and Ferb Game where we was not allowed to speak.

I really want to play another Kingmaker, because the idea is really good and the mechanics are good. Things I'd do differently is either fix the number of scum or Tie the PRs and Scum variables: More Scum = more PRs.

[guille2015]

Batt, would it be ok if you post the Votes and Actions?

[guille2015]

It wasn't a complete slip, mostly because It fitted an absentminded town. AI did recover well from it, but I think he should have been the kill rather than Empking.

Note to self and the Mod: Never do confirmations that are different between alignments.