Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[Bitmap]

I dislike the McStab wagon because of the speed of how fast it's forming. Also, I love how everyone is tunneling Mcstab and no one is looking at the wagon itself. With that being said,

VOTE: Applejack

[seilkops]

Yay, I don't have to replace out.
UNVOTE:
I agree with DY that theirs a good chance that D3F3nd3r (last time I'll ever type that out) just sucks, rather than being scum. Just keep in mind that he can just be sucky scum. I won't go after him unless something major scummy comes from his mouth.

Inte should unvote Cart. He's done nothing that should warrant a vote from you with such better suspects in the game. He's painfully transparent, in contrast to Inte's obscurity, so I already think Cart's got a better shot at being town.

SS is leaning town for me. He defends himself pretty well against in 414, and makes good points on his reads. Except with his weird continued "pony's are a team" obsession. That's kinda off.

Azusa gets kinda sketchy with her post in 421. I don't mind it when people change their reads, but the fact you don't really go out and basically just generalize a ton is worrying. Also, a lot of her case is based on lurkyness. I really can't say anything too bad about that b/c I'd be a raging hypocrite if I said "lynch all lurkers". IRL stuff happens, I can't blame McStab for that if he can't get on mafia.

I'll let someone else make McStab hardclaim, but I won't push him on it.

I know next to nothing about the AP case, so I'll look at that tomorrow. Also, tomorrow is when I'll be voting my whoever my top suspect is.

[Applejack]

Here's a summary of the Applejack case: I will probably be the counterwagon to McStab.*

* = The accuracy of this statement is not guaranteed and is in no way an endorsement by the FDA.

Hey, inte, you should probably get on the Applejack wagon. It's going to be red hot soon when McStab brings on a SUPER SHINY CLAIM THAT WILL WOW US ALL.

Bitmap, all you've got is speed? I can't be the only scumbag pushing it, then, if that's your problem. Spill, spill!

[Rainbowdash]

So what if MS wagon was fast? Where are the bad votes on it?

Only ones I can see you arguing as not great are Cart and DY... everypony else is really solid on it so that arguement is lacking some merit. Either way he needs to claim with under 48 hours to deadline and seli essentially claiming intent to hammer.

Most of the scummier players are OFF the wagon which makes it look that much better.

[McStab]

Bad Votes on my wagon =

DoomYoshi and you, OMGUSing.

Cartographer for no apparent reason aside from "he's conflicted"

Applejack and solid because they are counterwagons + Applejack is mad at me


The only good vote on me is Azusa who's provided some reasons, albeit flawed.


Not to mention I'm a claimed PR and RBD and Apple still insist on leaving their votes on me. And they're encouraging me to come out with a specific claim despite three people not on my wagon refusing to claim intent to hammer. When you get someone to L-1 and can't find anyone willing to hammer, it's a bad wagon.

[McStab]

Doomyoshi's actual reasonining I believe was "he's lurking" which even Azusa who's been tunnelling me the last five pages has dismissed as relevant.

But those same people on my wagon refuse to put pressure on others and even defend people who have poor reasons on their wagon (see the RBD and, in particular, Azusa defenses of Applejack, Solid and Cartographer, as well as their lack of applying pressure to DY's bad vote)

[DoomYoshi]

Nacho gave support to the mcstab wagon. I would suggest that indicative of intent to lynch earlier, but let's see what nacho has to say.

[Bitmap]

Bitmap, all you've got is speed? I can't be the only scumbag pushing it, then, if that's your problem. Spill, spill!

You've been sheeping RBD a lot as well.

[McStab]

i'm calling scum in {mcstab, bitmap, cartographer}, actually.
rbd is town and someone put suspicion on her, and I bet you scum couldn't resist fueling the paranoia somewhat.

Two days ago he said he thinks there's scum amongst three players; I was just one of them. I hardly think that's established as intent to hammer.

I want to hear the words explicitly. Aside from that, I am a claimed PR, and considering the case against DoomYoshi collapsed the moment he claimed, I fail to see why there haven't been unvotes and people have ignored it. I'm merely avoiding hardclaiming unless I think I'm genuinely likely to be lynched, so I'm assuming that everyone on my wagon still is assenting to me hardclaiming; if a softclaim suffices, then they should unvote.

[DoomYoshi]

Why would a town PR be antagonistic to no end?

Either you are a such a troll that you cannot control yourself, or you have the destruction of town as your goal. This is why I don't buy your claim. Nothing you have done this game is helpful. Why would you put forward shitty cases and try to spin the game as a big grudge match if you have a PR? If you can answer that, I will Unvote you.

When there are 2-4 scum in a game, a list of 3 scum should be strong enough evidence to vote for 1 of the 3. Without Naho's input, not much can be said though.

[Azusa Nakano]

So yeah, I'm softclaiming PR. I'll hardclaim if someone says intent to hammer regardless, but I would rather not. Until someone does, I will not elaborate on this.

*Eyeroll* Now that you've softclaimed PR (the claim I had assumed you were going to make in the first place), it really doesn't matter. You're pretty high on the scum kill list regardless. Why on Earth would you be softclaiming at this point? Now you're just wasting more time if your claim is really persuasive.

My only fear is that there is one instance where this makes a modicum of sense, but even then I fail to see how refusing to claim helps.

Azusa gets kinda sketchy with her post in 421. I don't mind it when people change their reads, but the fact you don't really go out and basically just generalize a ton is worrying. Also, a lot of her case is based on lurkyness. I really can't say anything too bad about that b/c I'd be a raging hypocrite if I said "lynch all lurkers". IRL stuff happens, I can't blame McStab for that if he can't get on mafia.

Examples of generalizations. Also, my case is basically has nothing to do with lurking anymore. I conceded that his inactivity had nothing to do with him being scum, but still argue that him being an active lurker is a valid point.

Bitmap- I've looked at the wagon. Aside from DoomYoshi's vote (which I hate), it's looking decent. Carto's vote is relatively sketchy, but I have a solid enough townread on him that I'm willing to let it slide, for now. I want to see a McStab flip before I analyze the vote more closely. If McStab flips town (which I REALLY doubt), Carto doesn't look as good. Also, I love how you keep using "tunnelling" as a buzzword in order to try and delegitimize the Stab wagon.

The Apple wagon is just pathetic. Even McStab admits that his case is weak, and Bitmap's argument is solely based on associative links, which while they can work, aren't particularly persuasive pre-flip. (The only reason this isn't that true with Rainbow is that EVERY SINGLE ONE of my scumreads is behaving in a way that makes no sense to me if Rainbow isn't town.) Also, can somebody please tell me why if both Rainbow and Applejack are scum (which, from what I recall, Bitmap and McStab both believe), why they are connecting themselves so brazenly. Makes much more sense if at least one is town.

[Bitmap]

I think McStab should at least claim tier at this point. I'll hammer McStab if no one budges to the Applejack wagon or any other leading wagons.

[Applejack]

Bitmap, all you've got is speed? I can't be the only scumbag pushing it, then, if that's your problem. Spill, spill!

You've been sheeping RBD a lot as well.

While you've explained your decision to vote me over anyone else, you still haven't answered the question. If you don't like the wagon's speed, then that must mean you believe it to be scum-pushed; it is impossible for me to do this alone, especially when I joined the wagon after two cases had already been made and I, myself, didn't provide original material.

Spill.

[Rainbowdash]

Im still waiting for you to refute my last couple posts against you really. I made a point and you just have been attacking the weaker ones presented by other players. Try something then "its OMGUS" which is not a defense, thats just a weak attempt at a case.

You do realize if you are town, especially non-VT, playing like you are is just about the most anti-town thing you can do because none of the votes on you are going to move. Not claiming means we essentially are going to end the day on no claim.

Also by same logic... you should not vote AJ. Since to get that wagon given current stances you need everypony in the game but one to vote her. If you are town you really need to realize that somepony voting you does not mean its OMGUS. If that was the case wouldnt best play by scum to be calling the entire game scummy and then they can vote anypony who attacks them because its OMGUS?

@Bit - Look at MS reactions, he is completely ignoring my attacks against him while complaining that his wagon has no merit. Its a lot like how I defended partners - especially RM - in 421, just discredit the votes instead of defending the points.

[McStab]

T2

[Bitmap]

Yeah, we aren't lynching McStab today. I have a really good gut feeling that McStab is indeed town.

[inte]

Fuckin' this is such a shit wagon. I'll shut my mouth if I'm wrong but whatever

Azusa why is mcstab high on the NK list?

[Bitmap]

Mcstab better not be vigged tonight or else I'm going to shit on people tomorrow.

[Applejack]

Bitch. (Not at McStab but at the fact that he had a ruddy claim.)

Someone tell me if his behavior has been consistent with that tier because there's no way I'm going through his iso.

[Bitmap]

It feels like his Open 421 play. Anyways, I'm not role-fishing him but I have a good feel on McStab after knowing his tier claim.

[Bitmap]

Applejack, how do you feel about RBD?

[Cartographer]

I realize my vote is not the best because multiple people have pointed it out.

I am very tired. I was not expecting games on this site to physically and mentally require so much from me. I simply want someone to die.

Ideally I would get Rainbow, but I voted MS because he was more likely to be lynched and I did not think I would be able to get Rainbow lynched.

I am sorry for my recent play.

[Applejack]

Fuckin' this is such a shit wagon. I'll shut my mouth if I'm wrong but whatever

McStab (6) - Rainbowdash, solidstate, Azusa Nakano, Cartographer, Applejack, DoomYoshi

Now tell me exactly how this is a "shit wagon" and where the scum are here, and maybe place a vote on someone with a chance of a viable wagon going to lynch (HINT HINT), or shut up because at this point all you're doing is whining.

Applejack, how do you feel about RBD?

Town. Granted, I'll probably always read Rainbowdash as town, but I remember something in my notes that made me lean definitely in this direction. I'll get back to you on this once I've posted this post.

Preview edit: ...if you wanted to get Rainbowdash then what the hell were you doing on a wagon that Rainbowdash was pushing?

[Bitmap]

Applejack and everyone on his wagon, give McStab one more day to live the very least.

[Azusa Nakano]

Azusa why is mcstab high on the NK list?

... Because he had claimed a PR, and typically Mafia kind of want to get rid of those? Particularly if the claim would then turn out to be incredibly provable?

Also, I know this is a stupid question, but can somebody provide an explanation/link re: role tiers? Because wiki, google, and a skim of Mafia Discussion are all coming up goose-eggs for me.

And I refuse to lynch Applejack or Carto. Solid town reads on both. I'd love an inte or Bitmap wagon, but those seem like pipedreams. Only feasible other wagon I would want to see is solid. But I'd have to reread first, seeing as how I'm coming around to solidtown.