micro 38: 7p micro normal

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

Caught up. Claimed scum has claimed scum.
VOTE: Batt

-Majiffy

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

@Batt - thank you for the derp night actions claim with no connecting logic, Majiffy is on board now.

AV has me doubting - but it's either him or Emp with Batt. Emp's quick buy in on the claim in a situation where I think it's even reasonable to presume there isn't another PR in the game, much less one that played really anti-town and with no reasoning....yeah...

But, seriously, I'm down to gamble on this one.
If there's no quick hammer we can play TUG vs. Batt. I like town's odds.

[mykonian]

votecount

Battousai (1): TwoUpstandingGentlemen

not voting (4): Empking, Cheery Dog, Battousai, AurorusVox

[Battousai]

I think ur town, so whatever...

My logic is, err logical, but that doesn't mean you can follow it well enough to see it comes from town.

My reads going into N1: Emp highest town read, then Thor, then Kimor. Kimor claimed jailkeeper, figured he'd be the NK choice. Then no one died, it made me doubt the jailkeeper claim. I mean, if he is a jailkeeper, why chance a no kill when you can kill him? Only reason would be that Emp is scum and/or Kimor is scum. My thought was that if Kimor is town, he would target Emp again. Or if he's scum he wouldn't. Trying to figure his alignment is important going into lylo. Then Emp scum was less likely than Kimor scum, simply because I had a stronger town read on him.


Also, I like how you don't even going into setup speculation. Chances of the only town role being a jailkeeper is low. 2:5 is typically scum sided from what I recall. Even if the scum have 2 goons, a jailkeeper alone most likely wouldn't balance it, let alone if scum have any PRs (2:5 with only 1 PR in 7 players is extremely low chance). So, to sum up, very high chance their is another PR, and an even higher chance that role is town.



Now done defending and to continue my scumhunting (Used 2 person ISO for reference):

Emp-AV team iso:

Emp never talked about ovyo (point against) and neither talked about each other D1 (point against); AV went on the offensive againt Kimor (in this scenario, emp would be against the wall; offensive against the role is a defense of emp)(point for)

Emp-CD team iso:

Converstational 122-123 (null); Emp prods CD for reads, doesn't get them, doesn't prod again. However, CD did say he wanted to hammer Kimor via sheeping it doesn't answer 2 top scum read question ISO 29-33(point for); Emp answers a question on CD read and says he's null 54. Says a Kimor action is scummy but not majorly so 55 (point for); D2: Iso 62 CD slight defense of an Emp-scum "If I was scum I wouldn't kill outted PR" (point for)

AV-CD (reading ISO):

Random Vote partner (1), unvotes him because too many ppl on it (3), votes robo for active lurking whereas partner was either gone or lurking the whole game (33). That's all the interactions

Emp/CD team is most likely. Least likely team is AV-CD. So by eliminating the least likely team, I get a denominator of Empking. My vote will most likely be going there. But not just for that. There has to be an explaination for why there was no NK N1. Either scum purposely did not submit kill (low chance) or the scum kill was prevented. Since we know Kimor is town we can take his word for it that he blocked Empking. So either scum tried to kill empking or more likely empking was blocked from killing (scum would have to choose to not kill a claimed town role that blocks kills).

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

I appreciate the buddying, but you don't get to squirm out of it like that.

Day 2 you knew that no one had targeted Kimor - so either scum had tried to kill Emp and Kimor had saved him.
Or Emp was scum and Kimor had stopped the kill.
Or scum lolgambited and didn't kill.

Believing option 3 tends towards derp.

So you functionally have an option where scum shot at a towny person and were prevented (by a town PR)
Or you think the town PR narrowly saved his own life.

You know this because there was no scum secret actions niggling our Jailkeeper (and, hey, you just said you don't even think scum would have PRs)

You take all this information and decide you need to try to CONFIRM the Jailkeeper...
Because obviously scum is him and it is a gambit...

Doing a no lynch is the answer to that gambit - but you still keep watching the claimed PR! This is why Watchers are called OP, because they watch claimed PRs!
And this is with you now telling me that you honestly believed there were 2 PRs...meaning if a kill had gone through and you did a massclaim and got your lolobvious 2 town PRs + the fake Jailkeeper...

I just broke Ockham's Razor trying to put that into a town mindset. You are scum.

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

Oh, and add onto that that we're in lylo and someone you think is town is voting you and you act 'cool' about it.

[Battousai]

I'm not "cool" about it, but I'm not going to vote you. I defended myself against your argument, and am showing who I think is scum.

And your whole 429 is very bad logic. So let me fix your post for ya:

I appreciate the buddying, but you don't get to squirm out of it like that.

Day 2 you knew that no one had targeted Kimor - so either scum had tried to kill Emp and Kimor had saved him.
Or Emp was scum and Kimor had stopped the kill.
Or scum lolgambited and didn't kill.

Believing option 3 tends towards derp.

So you functionally have an option where scum shot at a towny person and were prevented (by a town PR)
Or you think the town PR narrowly saved his own life.

Everything up to here is spot on

You know this because there was no scum secret actions niggling our Jailkeeper (and, hey, you just said you don't even think scum would have PRs)

Jailkeepers are, well, jailkeepers. They can't be roleblocked because they (and other roleblockers) actions are always done first in resolution. And your reading comprehension really failed here: what I basically said was that from a setup design, there is almost certainly another role and that if there is only 1 it would be town over scum. If there is a third role, then it most likely go to scum.

You take all this information and decide you need to try to CONFIRM the Jailkeeper...
Because obviously scum is him and it is a gambit...

Seeing as how he was at almost hammer when he claimed puts doubt on the validity. I believed Empking had a greater chance at being town than Kimor and having a claimed PR who I can vouch for when I claim the next day was my goal.

Doing a no lynch is the answer to that gambit - but you still keep watching the claimed PR! This is why Watchers are called OP, because they watch claimed PRs!

A no lynch would give me a chance to investigate again. So when I got the second chance, I wanted a result, and I thought watching Emp would give me the best chance at it.

And this is with you now telling me that you honestly believed there were 2 PRs...meaning if a kill had gone through and you did a massclaim and got your lolobvious 2 town PRs + the fake Jailkeeper...

Wait, what? What? You make this up yourself? The only mention I've made on the amount of PRs was to DEFEND the fact that I AM a TOWN PR, because only 1 TOWN PR would be UNBALANCED, EVEN if there are NO SCUM PRs.

I just broke Ockham's Razor trying to put that into a town mindset. You are scum.

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

Wait, what? What? You make this up yourself? The only mention I've made on the amount of PRs was to DEFEND the fact that I AM a TOWN PR, because only 1 TOWN PR would be UNBALANCED, EVEN if there are NO SCUM PRs.

Yes, so you beleive without a doubt that there are two town PRs.
You *don't* watch the claimed one in case he is killed, but instead watch his target so he can help confirm you.

[Battousai]

Ok, now I understand what you were saying.

Remember, this was before massclaim, so the only claim was Kimor's. So I knew I was town, and of course, I thought there would probably be 2 town PRs. The issue was whether or not Kimor was that second one or a lesser chance that there was a third PR. I watched Kimor's alleged target to help confirm him.

Not sure if explaining this right, but either Kimor was a second PR, Kimor was scum and there is an unclaimed town PR, or (least likely, but still a chance based on some mods like having plenty of PRs) Kimor was a second PR AND there is an unclaimed town PR. I thought Kimor was lying and wanted to confirm him or get him in a lie.

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

Yeah...but the only way that would help would be if he was town, and if he was town you should have been protecting him via looking for a scumkill.

You also knew there was no other town protective roles (unless they were incredible derps) because they hadn't been on him. So with you as one of the most powerful investigative roles in the game, what did that leave...can't be Tracker, because they could have confirmed him better and probably would have, so then we're down to...what?

Instead we have two of the most powerful town roles in the game and one of them decides to play his role in a very non standard way as some sort of odd gambit?
That's your story?

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

Unvote

@Batt - can you link me to any game with you as a Watcher?

@Majiff - as mentioned, I'm at work basically all of tomorrow - we'll chat late or, at the latest, late, late on Friday when I'm back, but mostly Thursday.

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

I hate you all.

[TwoUpstandingGentlemen]

For the record, I still think you need to eat rope.

-Majiffy

[Battousai]

It's not a gambit. The role of the watcher should be to watch the scum kill or to confirm a role. N1, I thought scum would kill the jailkeeper claim so I watched for that. N2, I wasn't sure on Kimor's alignment. If I watched Kimor, I thought I wouldn't get a result (based on my reads, I had Emp as more town than Kimor). Watching emp had the chance of catching scum kill or getting Kimor in a lie. I went with best odds.

I don't recall playing as a town watcher before (if I did it would be some time after I stopped updating my wiki as I just checked that to see that I played as a mafia watcher in a mod abandoned game).

[Cheery Dog]

I feel that it's most likely emp was blocked doing the nightkill night 1, probably intended for kimor, batt never getting a result because emp was able to go through with the kill.

otherwise it was TUG playing sillybuggers with us, but I doubt that.

I haven't read enough of the game to work out who the partner is most likely to have been though, based on the claims I will have to assume it's AV.

[Empking]

I think the fact that people are ignoring Kimor's reads is very telling. It shows us that scum were not only killing him for his guaranteed PR (which is obvious since they went fishing in waters on N1 for a different PR) but also to shut him up. The two scummiest players are the same as yesterday: AV & CD.

[AurorusVox]

Why didn't AV/CD kill him N1 then?

[AurorusVox]

I haven't read enough of the game to work out who the partner is most likely to have been though,

based on the claims

I will have to assume it's AV.

What?

Everyone claimed VT (except Batt who rescinded)
Explain how the claims in any way inform your determination of AV scum?

[Cheery Dog]

Everyone claimed VT (except Batt who rescinded)
Explain how the claims in any way inform your determination of AV scum?

I know I'm town.
Batt rescinded, and I believe there would be at least 2 PRs in this game.
TUG's way of claiming was weird, and I feel that would more likely come from town than scum.

[Empking]

Why didn't AV/CD kill him N1 then?

I know I didn't know his strength of feelings D1 toewards you. I expect the two of you were in the same state of ignorance as me.

[AurorusVox]

CD is probBuddy to Batts. Lemme go re-read Kimor since I replaced in.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Kimor

Scum.

And Robo is town.

I'm going to need something better than that.

Unvote, vote: AurorusVox

The player you replaced was scummy, and this is scummier.

I still think that AV is an excellent play for today.

Since nobody else seems interested in voting the most obvious scum in the game, I'll settle for the second-most-obvious.

Unvote, vote: Cheery Dog

Reasons already stated.

And I am a retard, and so might be Kimor...


@KIMOR!

Right now declare who you're jailing.
This claim only counts if Robo flips scum - if he flips town you may jail whomever.
But I will have that claim.

With the understanding that this only counts if he flips scum, I am jailing AV tonight.

Are you really saying it wasn't obvious I was his top scumread D1 Emp?

CD you've gotten off but only because Emp is full of shit.

[Battousai]

CD is probBuddy to Batts. Lemme go re-read Kimor since I replaced in.

So you still think I'm scum. Why do you believe the town only has 1 PR (if town has 1 PR, then scum should have 0 PRs and this game would only have 1 PR total)? Why do you find me individually scummy?


I'm pretty sure Empking is scum just by the scum night actions. Why would scum choose to kill Empking? Because they think he is a PR most likely. But then, why would they kill someone they think is a PR over someone they KNOW is a PR; and then choose to kill the known PR the next night when the last kill failed. I mean, if they wanted to kill a PR, Kimor should have been targetted N1. If they wanted to find a PR, they would have tried to kill Empking again or killed someone else that wasn't me or Emp (who Kimor said were his town reads) afraid of getting blocked.

[AurorusVox]

Imo JK is a very powerful PR as it has the combined power of RB and Doc.
And I don't like the way you waited to claim Watcher until everyone else had claimed VT.

[Battousai]

I disagree with the JK remark.

So your whole case against me is that I waited to last to claim Watcher. That's it? It's lylo and that's what you're going with.