NY 159: RUST game over

Rob14 · Post Post #825 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:56 am

In post 821, AngryPidgeon wrote:Actually no. Darthe is still scum. I don't care. Why did he not immediately vote Tazaro and accuse him of lying. BAH. If Darthe makes it any significant distance in this game as scum Im going to pissed at Taz.

No vote because Taz is confirmed town? He did accuse him of lying.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #826 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:57 am

Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

Rob14 · Post Post #827 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:58 am

In post 826, AngryPidgeon wrote:Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

malpascp · Post Post #828 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:01 am

Ok then, Taz is actually definitively confirmed town? 100%? No godfathers and other shit? Even considering that this game has fucking millers? hum sounds about right

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #829 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:05 am

In post 828, malpascp wrote:Ok then, Taz is actually definitively confirmed town? 100%? No godfathers and other shit? Even considering that this game has fucking millers? hum sounds about right

He claimed 2xVigiliante shot on Zabriel you fail box. Without a CC hes probably town or a retarded SK that will be caught in no time.

TheReverend · Post Post #830 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:26 am

Ok so I've done most of my work and I'm just left with taz and the dead, will do those guys tomorrow, getting tired and very bored.

scummy...
BC, malp, drmyshotgun

town...
ckd, prohawk, darthe, rofl, rob, pigeon, taz

null...
cheerydog, josh, paid pyro, peregrine

These are preliminary reads based on two days of isos. I might have missed important information that clears or implicates, if so please point it out.

pigeon's 735 needs to be looked at. He looks so town other than this single post, which stinks.
My scum reads, I doubt both "millers" are scum but I've never played a game with millers so I'm inexperienced in that respect. drmyshotgun is only scummy because he pretends to not know how paid pyro is after asking the mod to update the player list.
Town reads, there might be scum hiding in here, if so they're bussing hard.
Null reads, good chance of scum hiding in here.

Here's my iso commentary notes for anyone who can be bothered to trawl through them...
tl;dr

Spoiler:

Darthe · Post Post #831 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:27 am

In post 827, Rob14 wrote:
In post 826, AngryPidgeon wrote:Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #832 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:57 am

The above just proves even more that Darthe is scum.

Spoiler: Im watching you Darthe

Reverend is obv town.
CKD is still lurking because hes so absolutely ecstatic about BC getting lynched instead of him / his buddy.

@Reverend I think I see your point about that one post of mine, but if you look at the rest of my ISO you'll see I've been trying to get these

idiots

nice people to vote based on scumminess and not the fact that there are 2 millers. I guess people find BC generally scummy even if I don't. I will say rofl has a slight point about his early interactions with Zab, but I just don't see scum CKD and Demoncore bussing Zabriel lightly just to focus on the millers. That was mostly Dcore, CKD decided to focus on me (lol).

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #833 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:59 am

In post 804, Tazaro wrote:
We have only two JoaT's that have claimed. I claimed watcher, then CKD incorporated TRACKER in his alleged role. I find it interesting he said he targetted ProHawk, because their responses to certain wagons/wagoning look a certain way. Want to bet CKD is a scum JoaT?

that is a lot of scretching. I am looking for scum...dude fucking said, "lets look for other scum" then hopped off his wagon, then DC flipped scum.

given that fucking information who the fuck would you have tracked? you said "alleged" and you also say i could be a scum Joat...which is it, am I PR scum or a lying scum? if you think i am lying how come you have not followed up with prohawk to see if I am lying...seems like that would be an important thing to do, right? why didnt you?

as for the scum bit, why bother saying anything? I didnt have a wagon on me...I had no pressure, the only reason to said anything was because I had some information...AND I wanted to see if YOU were lying (sure blah blah blah this could be WIFOM) but it just the truth. and now I have a target on my back because I still have one (unnamed ability) rob has already suggested who he is going to "vig" tonight..so if all information is correct and there really is a sk out there, I am probably dead....the only reason I claimed, was because you claimed..I wanted to see who you claimed targeted…if you said Prohawk. You were lying and I had just caught two scum. you and rob …fuck, weren’t you two the same who fucked my gambit yesterday too?

as it stands you lied and outed me and shrank the town targets for scum. what if a cop HAD targeted zab last night??? Yesterday you thought it was SOOOO fucking important to jump in and fuck my gambit.

good job, you get a cookie. Yet another anti town move…if rob haven’t had claimed an investigation on you, you would be getting my vote.

you fucking think I am scum, use your last vig on me tonight. there is really no one else you have harped on today, so I am the best person to kill, because I must be scum.

@town, when I flip tomorrow, remember this damn post. I dont care about the investigation at this point. there could be a godfather. unless one flips taz should not see end game. remember his anti-town actions...please.

I have done the watcher gambit twice (both time successfully catching scum) it only fucking works if the person that was killed WAS FUCKING TOWN.

- - -
Furthermore

@ Darthe, if you thought taz was lying, why didn’t you vote him?

In post 816, AngryPidgeon wrote:UNVOTE:

Well, agreed that Darthe is more obviously town after that.

That must mean we're back to my original suspicions: Malpa, CKD, Prohawk

Shameless counterwagon to the BC wagon (Fun fact last time I said that, the main wagon was on scum and I was wagoning town)

Actually I really can't think of anyone I want the most.

VOTE: Malpascp

since we are deadset on killing millers today.

"since we are deadset on killing millers today, I want to try to look like I am down with the plan, by voting someone who is obviously not going to be lynched today"

In post 823, AngryPidgeon wrote:Hi CKD, you should full claim in your next post.

Malp, who is scum?

oooohhh nooooo, I am not going to. you will have to kill me tonight to find out.

In post 824, AngryPidgeon wrote:This fake claim is both fake and taking too long.

When you read my claimed, did you immediately think it was fake?

In post 827, Rob14 wrote:
In post 826, AngryPidgeon wrote:Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Taz implied he was a sk, so you are saying he wouldnt have been lynched anyway? If I caught someone in a lie, I vote them.

In post 829, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 828, malpascp wrote:Ok then, Taz is actually definitively confirmed town? 100%? No godfathers and other shit? Even considering that this game has fucking millers? hum sounds about right

He claimed 2xVigiliante shot on Zabriel you fail box. Without a CC hes probably town or a retarded SK that will be caught in no time.

right right, there hasnt been any other vig CC...wait a minute…fail box indeed.

In post 831, Darthe wrote:
In post 827, Rob14 wrote:
In post 826, AngryPidgeon wrote:Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

at least two people(malp and humourously enough AP) questioned your intentions as two why you didnt vote taz if you thought he was lying.

what is the answer?

and why have you chosen not to address them?

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #834 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:03 pm

In post 832, AngryPidgeon wrote:

Reverend is obv town.
CKD is still lurking because hes so absolutely ecstatic about BC getting lynched instead of him / his buddy.

vote AP

I am lurking? really? please explain how the fuck I am lurking??

have I been posting else where? did you even check to see if I was? god dammit....if I had a vig, I know where it would be going.

I think BC is probably town now, the way this scum bag is going on. and it would a huge set of balls as scum to CC a miller role. if they are scum, they are probably scum together...but likely the are town.

roflcopter · Post Post #835 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:07 pm

ckd remember that time on day one when you thought that if one of zabriel and bc was scum the other was too? i have some good news, zabriel flipped scum. i will also tell you the same thing i told ap - you're both town. stop trying to kill each other.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #836 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:15 pm

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:given that fucking information who the fuck would you have tracked? you said "alleged" and you also say i could be a scum Joat...which is it, am I PR scum or a lying scum? if you think i am lying how come you have not followed up with prohawk to see if I am lying...seems like that would be an important thing to do, right? why didnt you?

Are you scum hunting someone you acknowledge is obv town? Notice that later on you say you were suspicious of their claims but they apparently checked out. So why are you

scumhunting

smearing Tazaro?

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:AND I wanted to see if YOU were lying (sure blah blah blah this could be WIFOM)

Yes, but you didn;t have to outright claim. Derp. Just get him to claim his shit and THEN see if it adds up. Holy cow.

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:as it stands you lied and outed me and shrank the town targets for scum.

Lol, you outed yourself. See above.

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:Yet another anti town move…

Irony

Oh right you are scum, so outing yourself IS a protown move.

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:so if all information is correct and there really is a
sk
out there, I am probably dead

What. You aren't at risk of being killed by

your

the scum team, only an SK? And why would you be killed over, IDK, fucking obviously town: roflcopter, Rob, Tazaro.

Spoiler:

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:@ Darthe, if you thought taz was lying, why didn’t you vote him?

This pleases me.

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:"since we are deadset on killing millers today, I want to try to look like I am down with the plan, by voting someone who is obviously not going to be lynched today"

You do realize that if BC is lynched, rob is vigging Malp on a town flip right? So we are going to know their alignments by the end of Tonight. Ya.

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:right right, there hasnt been any other vig CC...wait a minute…fail box indeed.

Yes, he claimed to VIG SHOT ZABRIEL. NO ONE ELSE CLAIMED TO SHOOT ZABRIEL. DERP.

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:at least two people(malp and humourously enough AP) questioned your intentions as two why you didnt vote taz if you thought he was lying.

Stop connecting me to Darthe.

Darthe · Post Post #837 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:26 pm

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 804, Tazaro wrote:
Furthermore

@ Darthe, if you thought taz was lying, why didn’t you vote him?

In post 831, Darthe wrote:
In post 827, Rob14 wrote:
In post 826, AngryPidgeon wrote:Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

at least two people(malp and humourously enough AP) questioned your intentions as two why you didnt vote taz if you thought he was lying.

what is the answer?

and why have you chosen not to address them?

I have in my notes that on mafiascum people seem to vote first and think second. Now, the way I have always played elsewhere a vote is a pretty big deal and voting without enough cause or before exploring your options and putting out thoughts is considered a GIGANTIC scum tell. So, as with angrypidgeon when he made what I thought could be a slip, I refrain from voting until I see something clearly worth voting for or until I value the information that can be gleaned from a vote. Of course, understanding this will require you all to know a bit more about me and the group I play with. Mafia was invented by psychologists. I, as it so happens, am a psychologist IRL who is rising grad school. That is the main group that I play with. Hence..--> I try and learn the facts before using my only real power.. my vote. If I had a role, I would play differently.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #838 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:42 pm

Waffle, waffle, psychology major.

Its CKD/Darthe.

TheReverend · Post Post #839 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:48 pm

ckd is angry, where I've been playing for the last two years or so, this is considered a scumtell. But then it's a small pool of players at a poker forum who play together often, so we're all more or less friends and rarely bitch at each other, so it might be a flawed read. I have him as town because of the DC trap, it seemed legit to me. Can he do this as scum? Is he angry when he's town? I can move him into scum camp if these questions are answered unfavourably for him. I have no desire to read old games after the shift I've put in today catching up, I'll have some time tomorrow.

For now I like BC or darthe, BC because it helps clear up the miller issue, which is confusing me to fuck, and darthe because he looks scummy aside from his response to taz's fakeclaim.

roflcopter · Post Post #840 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:49 pm

ckd is angry all the time. this is typical of his play no matter what alignment. see his custom title.

ProHawk · Post Post #841 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:14 pm

In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:

that is a lot of scretching. I am looking for scum...dude fucking said, "lets look for other scum" then hopped off his wagon, then DC flipped scum.

given that fucking information who the fuck would you have tracked? you said "alleged" and you also say i could be a scum Joat...which is it, am I PR scum or a lying scum? if you think i am lying how come you have not followed up with prohawk to see if I am lying...seems like that would be an important thing to do, right? why didnt you?

I would have thought I was scum, if I hadn't already read my role card!

Cheery Dog · Post Post #842 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:56 pm

UNVOTE: darthe
VOTE: blood

back to lynching the

miller

then.

I also don't like Prohawk's new post at all.

ProHawk · Post Post #843 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:08 pm

In post 842, Cheery Dog wrote:UNVOTE: darthe
VOTE: blood

back to lynching the
miller
then.

I also don't like Prohawk's new post at all.

And I don't like your sheeping.

Rob14 · Post Post #844 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:13 pm

I'm tired of people saying ProHawk is scum, so here's why he isn't:

↑ ProHawk wrote:Rob, you have a few good points against BloodCovenant, except for one part. Wouldn't scum try to avoid each other more than make connections with each other? Do you really think that scum would make two connections back and forth to sacrifice the other scum-partner should one flip scum?

While this does not exonerate BC or Zabriel, I think it does make it not so fairly obvious as you say it is.

He seems to defend BC and Zab. Looks suspicious, right?

↑ ProHawk wrote:I think I can see it now.

VOTE: zabriel

In post 10, zabriel wrote:Wow. Miller claim already.
Seems legit. BC=Obvtown
.

In post 49, zabriel wrote:I was mostly commenting on how he was claiming miller in first post, and that's like one of two schools of thought on how to play Miller. But it was so to the letter it was just kind of funny.
I also wasn't sure if it was a legit claim or not.

These two posts do not equate.

Nevermind, it doesn't look suspicious at all. I re-explained my points about Zab and BC and he agreed and hopped on voting for Zab. If scum was going to try to help out his buddies BC and Zab, then he would stick to his guns, at least until it seemed like vastly more people were against Zab/BC than for them. He wouldn't re-evaluate and switch from being on Zab/BV's side to bussing after only a re-explanation of past points against Zab and very little other change in the situation. It wouldn't make sense. Only town would be willing to adjust their views in this situation because they're willing to re-ISO and adjust views if they see something new, which he did.

↑ ProHawk wrote:
In post 388, Cheery Dog wrote:We're 5 days into the game, which is less that halfway through this phase, why are you so eager to to finish the day?
and why do you want a pile of dead bodies?

As much as it seems bad on the surface, it fits with his style of play, and seems to echo much of the sentiment of players I have seen here (from the little I have seen). I am willing to compromise on a DC lynch after an eval of ISO, particularly of Post #166, however, I still feel we should be lynching zabriel.

@drmy and Rob, any consensus as to when you two want the day to end?

Why would scum call out both of his partners in one post? If people are going to switch over to a wagon on DC, BussingScum-ProHawk would be hopping wagons and hoping everyone forgets about Zab so that he doesn't lose TWO scum-partners. He isn't going to be thinking "well, it seems like people are going to lynch a partner no matter what,

so let's keep drawing attention to both in all of my posts."

Do you guys see how that would make no sense at all from a scum POV?

↑ ProHawk wrote:Completely agree, don't counterclaim until later in the game. That way in the off chance he is telling the truth about being cop, we don't mis-lynch him and scum would be forced to kill him.

Now, on to the dreaded "other scum" post. It seems to be the source of most reads on ProHawk. People conveniently forget to read the above post, which explains why he didn't want a lynch of DC. If DC is actually a cop, mafia will kill him that night for sure. If not that night, the next. No scum-team wants a live claimed cop. Even if it creates a possible future mislynch, the cop role can help clear townies and find scum very easily after it flips and the person is proved cop, as long as the cop posts investigation results in-thread before they're lynched. If DC is scum, then he wouldn't be killed by mafia (obviously). This means that we would lynch him on Day 2 or 3 because the fact that he was still alive would confirm him as scum.

This makes absolutely 100% perfect sense.

Frankly, if I had seen this post and not been tunneling like never before, I would have probably unvoted DC because we would have been able to lynch another ObvScum and have either a cop still alive or a confirmed scum as our Day 2-3 lynch. There's no down-side to leaving him for a day or two and so much potential upside in having a live cop. As this post explains why he said, "onto the other scum," the prior comment is no longer scummy because his logic is flawless.

-----

Now, everyone, stop saying ProHawk is scum and get back to lynching millers.

Darthe · Post Post #845 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:19 pm

In post 837, Darthe wrote:
In post 833, curiouskarmadog wrote:
In post 804, Tazaro wrote:
Furthermore

@ Darthe, if you thought taz was lying, why didn’t you vote him?

In post 831, Darthe wrote:
In post 827, Rob14 wrote:
In post 826, AngryPidgeon wrote:Without much conviction though. I doubt Darthe would flip anything other than Mafia goon at this point, but :/

If he's town and on shaky territory, a vote for confirmed town would be suicide. Any reasonable player would know that. He couldn't go after Taz without being immediately lynched. His response was ideal, in my opinion.

Pidgeon wants a reason to get people to vote me, as we have seen throughout the day. Hence his earlier comment.

at least two people(malp and humourously enough AP) questioned your intentions as two why you didnt vote taz if you thought he was lying.

what is the answer?

and why have you chosen not to address them?

I have in my notes that on mafiascum people seem to vote first and think second. Now, the way I have always played elsewhere a vote is a pretty big deal and voting without enough cause or before exploring your options and putting out thoughts is considered a GIGANTIC scum tell. So, as with angrypidgeon when he made what I thought could be a slip, I refrain from voting until I see something clearly worth voting for or until I value the information that can be gleaned from a vote. Of course, understanding this will require you all to know a bit more about me and the group I play with. Mafia was invented by psychologists. I, as it so happens, am a psychologist IRL who is rising grad school. That is the main group that I play with. Hence..--> I try and learn the facts before using my only real power.. my vote. If I had a role, I would play differently.

In post 838, AngryPidgeon wrote:
Waffle, waffle, psychology major.

Its CKD/Darthe.

Translation: Ignore the important parts and point out the relatively useless personal information, AKA reaction baiting. Are you still voting me bird?

Rob14 · Post Post #846 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:21 pm

For the record, Darthe, your psychology crap is an appeal to authority, and a bad one at that. A psychologist is not automatically better at the mechanics of the game (i.e. the vote) because the game was made by a set of different psychologists. That's like saying men are better at using electricity because a man discovered it.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #847 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:26 pm

Did you just accuse me of reaction testing you?

No, I'm not voting you. Because your lynch has no support today.

Darthe · Post Post #848 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:27 pm

In post 842, Cheery Dog wrote:UNVOTE: darthe
VOTE: blood

back to lynching the
miller
then.

I also don't like Prohawk's new post at all.

In post 761, Cheery Dog wrote:That plan sounds good to me.

UNVOTE: bc
VOTE: darthe

In post 702, Cheery Dog wrote:Interesting.
Useless post I know, but I can't think straight lying down.

Massclaiming should not happen any more than it already has, we still have 12 people who have not claimed, and I believe it is best to keep it that way for now.

In post 721, Cheery Dog wrote:I was going to come vote BC and be happy to lynch a
miller
today, but Darthe has stepped the over the line with that post (705) and voting just for competing wagons doesn't sound like a very good choice for a voteplacement.

but then again I just looked back at the votecounts, I do have to wonder why he would have been bussing two of his partners during day 1. (zab all day and then DC with the hammer for
information
)

I think I'd be fine with either of those two for today, but I'm going to go ahead and
VOTE: BloodConvenent

In post 723, Cheery Dog wrote:If he is one of the people taz saw visiting zab, I could definitely see him being a SK.

In post 596, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 594, PeregrineV wrote:If Demon=cop, scum is Rob, zab, Josh at least

Why Rob?

In post 476, Cheery Dog wrote:
In post 456, BloodCovenent wrote:anyone can look scummy when you read them in ISO. You can always nit-pick and misinterpret shit.

You are agreeing though since your vote just went that direction

Though you are correct that just an ISO leads to confirmation bias.

In post 489, Cheery Dog wrote:or vanilla townie, but then that's not actually a counterclaim unless you know there is only one VT in game, but then that would be role madness.

In post 447, Cheery Dog wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Demon Core

back to this vote, it has a much better chance than drmy for flipping scum.

I'm not seeing CKD as scum but the rest of Rob's list looks quite possible to me.

This guy goes with the flow far too much. I think a bit of pressure here is warranted, where is some decent contribution? Also, these are in opposite order because I am lazy.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #849 (ISO) » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:29 pm

Cheery is super obvtown.

What do you think about CKD's last wall?