Open 458: Carbon-14 (Over!)

[CityElectric]

Do you agree with Battousai that shos conversation with you was scummy?

I find it a hard call to make, simply because I was in the middle of it. I'm saying not really, nothing strikes me as terribly off.

@post 35: because he indeed was in L-1 and as I said, I don't wanna see micro 32 again. Empking knowingly put him at L-1 on page one, withing range of lolhammer-just-to-rob-the-town-of-info. If scum hammered then, we would have lost two people as quickly as can happen. at worse, we lose the relevant cop role. then D2 we lynch the scumbag that quickhammered, and we start D3 lylo with THREE townies dead and LITERALLY no info. odds are 60% that by then we also don't have our relevant cop. that's a good enough justification for me to vote empking. a player in his level should by now know that in every situation before you put a player in L-1, you have to think about the possibility of a quickhammer and how much worse things can get. he did vote. I sayz he scum. If I were scum I'd instahammer city immediately and tell my buddy to buss me or something. it's just that easy. and if supposedly empking is town, then being in L-1 means that the townie cannot be quickhammered ONLY IF BOTH SCUM ARE ON THE WAGON. the odds for that are 1/15.

in other words, vote

Obama

Empking, yall.

That's a lot of theory to consider when making a RVS vote, don't you think? Also, I'm not sure about your 1/15 odds for both scum to be on the wagon, but that's more of a math issue. I'd have to calculate that for myself. Needless to say, I don't think that's what Emp's motivations were.

@41: City is new onsite. not the only game I'm playing with him; his rush to get that gut feel about empking is something I consider a newbtown mistake. no reads other than this, not enough content.

You would say that you'd know my gender by then... I'm female, just so you know.

Pedit: @Radelle: Because both me and Mhork were involved in that discussion-thing. (kinda forgot about Commie)

[shos]

bout the odds first - that's choosing 2 correctly out of 6. the options correct are one, the total options are 6!/2!*4!=5*3=15. so 1/15

That is indeed a lot of theory to consider, but empking is exactly the one I'd expect to think about these. especially when it's not only an RVS vote - it's an L-1 vote. See, if your vote doesn't endanger the votee immediately you realy don't need to think about anything when you randomvote. but if you are well aware of the fact that it's L-1, then you always, always have to think about the consequences. empking is no newb.

OMG ur a gurll hun me so sorriez /sarcasm...I tend to just assume everyone's a guy on such forums lol. except they have a unique avatar or style to make me remember them(Tierce <3) /offtopic

[Empking]

How is this a ploy by someone? By whom? There are either two mafia/werewolves in the game and more than that have posted to create this atmosphere. If you actually think there is a ploy, then why not vote for the two people (Mhork and Commie) who were most actively stagnating the game by dicking around?

You later say that City's irrelevancy was the most recent, but shos posted right after City essentially saying nothing. So I don't buy that. You specifically wanted to vote City while not voting others. What makes this especially scummy, is that you had simple explanations at your disposal: To put City at L-1 to see reactions, pressure, etc. But you unnecessarily over-explain it with a not so rational response. Now you're not really posting anything relevant yourself.

1. Are you actually trying to pretend that City "multiposts that don't advance the game" Electric didn't create the atmosphere and Commie "jumped on the wagon with one post" X did? Really?

Re: the rest,
1. What sudden vote by shos?
2. When did I suggest it was scummy?

Vote: Radelle

[Empking]

VOTE: CityElectric

OMGUS!
Plus I've got the same issue. Is it City? or is it Electric?

I prefer City

VOTE: CityElectric

OMGUS!
Plus I've got the same issue. Is it City? or is it Electric?

I prefer City

VOTE: Electric

You sir, are some sort of rebel without a cause. I've got my eye on you

Well if you don't wanna use my full title, I'm cool with Mhork.

Would a real lord say such a thing?

Lol theb ur gonna vite me a lot

God, I think I finally figured out what's that supposed to say. Do me a favor and post in proper English next time.

Can anyone say with a straight face that it's Commie doing the most messing around in the posts?

[shos]

mescuzzi, are you trying to protect commie form someone who said he's fluffing but saying that me and city are fluffing? or is that post above here just completely unrelated and useless?

[Empking]

Shos:
Assume the game is two Mafia and a Cop and four townies (a favourable assumption to your view.)
Scum quicklynch
1/5 hit Cop, scumlynch then we have 1/3 = 1/15 = 4/60
4/5 hit townie, 1/4 hit Cop in the night, scumlynch then we have 1/3 = 1/15 = 4/60
4/5 hit townie, 3/4 hit townie, 1/4 Cop hit scum = 3/20 = 9/60
4/5 hit townie, 3/4 hit townie, 1/2 Cop hit non-killed town, if Cop comes out then 1/2 = 3/20 = 9/60
4/5 hit townie, 3/4 hit townie, 1/4 Cop hit scum target, scumlynch, 1/3 scum hit Cop, 1/3 we win, 1/60
4/5 hit townie, 3/4 hit townie, 1/4 Cop hit scum target, scumlynch, 2/3 scum hit townie, 1/2 we win, 1/60

=28/60 (7/15) EV and that's

ignoring

the named townie. Scum wouldn't quicklynch and if they did we should thank them.

To your latest post, Radelle voted me giving the reason that CE didn't mess around and Commie was the reicarnation of Loki (that's the gist at any rate). This is a belief thast no player could agree with, I contend. Unless someone givers a "yes" to 53 then it is fair to say Radelle is lying and Lynch All Liars.

Also, unless you were talking to someopne else, did I even mention you in my last post?

[Shamrock]

Vote Count 1.2

Empking (2) - shos, Radelle
shos (2) - CommieX, Battousai
Lord Mhork (1) - CityElectric
CityElectric (1) - Lord Mhork
Radelle (1) - Empking

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline is at noon EST on Nov. 9 (that's

(expired on 2012-11-09 12:00:00)

from when you loaded this page).

[shos]

well you quoted stuff that involved me. I didn't understand what you wanted and still don't, please explain again.

about your math - your odds are all good andd fine, but you didn't say what they mean. and I have no will to try and see. if I were scum and had the choice of rolling a die for gamewin with 54% to win, why not?
now what the hell are you talking about with 'named townie'?

[Empking]

well you quoted stuff that involved me. I didn't understand what you wanted and still don't, please explain again.

Raquelle suggested that CE was innocent from messing up the gamestate and that CX was the one that did it, then used that as justification to vote me. I think this is an untenantable position. Either it was an outright lie, or needing to find an excuse to vote me, just made something not caring about its truth value enough to check.

about your math - your odds are all good andd fine, but you didn't say what they mean. and I have no will to try and see. if I were scum and had the choice of rolling a die for gamewin with 54% to win, why not?
now what the hell are you talking about with 'named townie'?

With a Mafia/Wolves then the Seer/Cop is a named townie.

[CommieX]

hey, I did not post before that post in the thread. have you examined my other games pregame? why did you do that? cuz I don't remember playing with you ever, and I indeed blatantly disregard capitals

Was referencing your name.

@shos: Can you quote the posts you are responding to? It's needlessly complicated to cross reference your posts with the posts you are responding to.

@43: dude, I have no idea what the hell, but since the start of the damn thread, I think that ever single post of yours has me in it. let me confirm that with an ISO.
ooh. perfect memory. wtf, explain plox

Coincidence? I don't think that's strange at all considering there's 7 players in the game and I had only posted 4 times.

mescuzzi, are you trying to protect commie form someone who said he's fluffing but saying that me and city are fluffing? or is that post above here just completely unrelated and useless?

Just did an iso of Emp, he never accused you of fluffing. However, you did have the most fluff posts on the first page of anyone.

To your latest post, Radelle voted me giving the reason that CE didn't mess around and Commie was the reicarnation of Loki (that's the gist at any rate). This is a belief thast no player could agree with, I contend. Unless someone givers a "yes" to 53 then it is fair to say Radelle is lying and Lynch All Liars.

Why are you ignoring the fact that Radelle brought up Mhork?

@Commie, thoughts on Emp

Neutral read. I will buy his reasoning in voting city to get out of RVS, but his defense of himself seems a bit eager.

and Shos.

Slightly scummy, for the reason I gave after my last quotation of his.

[shos]

You're damn good.

I'll sleep on it.

pedit: tomorrow..

[Radelle]

How is this a ploy by someone? By whom? There are either two mafia/werewolves in the game and more than that have posted to create this atmosphere. If you actually think there is a ploy, then why not vote for the two people (Mhork and Commie) who were most actively stagnating the game by dicking around?

You later say that City's irrelevancy was the most recent, but shos posted right after City essentially saying nothing. So I don't buy that. You specifically wanted to vote City while not voting others. What makes this especially scummy, is that you had simple explanations at your disposal: To put City at L-1 to see reactions, pressure, etc. But you unnecessarily over-explain it with a not so rational response. Now you're not really posting anything relevant yourself.

1. Are you actually trying to pretend that City "multiposts that don't advance the game" Electric didn't create the atmosphere and Commie "jumped on the wagon with one post" X did? Really?

Re: the rest,
1. What sudden vote by shos?
2. When did I suggest it was scummy?

Vote: Radelle

Don't redirect here champ. Answer my questions. How is this whole thing a ploy given that just about all the players were posting irrelevant things? Who is doing it?

You single out City and Mhork while completely ignoring Commie's involvement (however little). As well, you ignore shos who had more recently made TWO irrelevant posts, which were written directly after City's post which made you vote for him with the reasoning that he was part of the center of the stagnation and he made the most recent stagnate post. Shos had even posted more than either of City or Mhork without doing anything to really drive the game himself. You specifically were voting for City and I don't buy your reasoning for it.

I mentioned Commie one time. Why are you over-defensive of him?

The game isn't going anyway and that looks to me like a ploy by someone. Nobody could change their vote without look scummy (thank you shos for illustrating that) and the game would be stagnant so I

You implied here that shos' change in vote looked scummy. Do you now deny this? Do you think shos looks scummy for that sudden vote onto you after you voted for City, or were just just trying to idly put suspicion onto shos here for kicks?

How about City? What is your read on her now? You implied that she and Mhork were at the center of a ploy by scum. Why aren't you grilling/questioning them/doing anything about it now?

Oh that's right. Because you are scum

appearing

like you're doing something when you've done crap all.

[Radelle]

Shos, do you have a completed games with any player here?

[Battousai]

Shos smells of fake scumhunting; at least, when I voted. Now, I doubt his logic. He likes to talk a lot, obviously, but when he calls me and empking a scumteam... it's just illogical. Emp-scum gets "caught" putting someone at L-1, then I, go ahead and put someone else at L-1... yeah, that's really really smart for scum to do.

Emp/Radelle- I disagree with Emp that there was a ploy to keep the game stagnant, though I believe it is very possible scum wanted to keep their heads down. Keeping their heads down, could lead to stagnation, but town has to help it out as well. Picking any 1 person out, let alone 2 (by Radelle) seems implausible. Both are guilty of this. However, what I don't like is how Radelle used this to vote Empking.

Also, shos, v/la is a state of mind. I'm constantly on v/la.

My vote stays on shos.

[Empking]

Why are you ignoring the fact that Radelle brought up Mhork?

Because it isn't relevant? Mhork was a member of the stagnanters, but City posted last. That was discussed before Radelle's vote.

what do you think of these two quotes both by Radelle:
" the two people (Mhork and Commie) who were most actively stagnating"
"You single out City and Mhork while completely ignoring Commie's involvement (however little). "

If that's not stealth backtracking (changing his position whilest refusing to admit false) what other thing is it?

[CommieX]

Why are you ignoring the fact that Radelle brought up Mhork?

Because it isn't relevant? Mhork was a member of the stagnanters, but City posted last. That was discussed before Radelle's vote.

My point being, why are you insisting on only defending me, rather than Mhork when we were mentioned in the same breath?

[Empking]

Why are you ignoring the fact that Radelle brought up Mhork?

Because it isn't relevant? Mhork was a member of the stagnanters, but City posted last. That was discussed before Radelle's vote.

My point being, why are you insisting on only defending me, rather than Mhork when we were mentioned in the same breath?

1. Answer my question.
2. I'm not defending you. I'm calling Radelle scum for lying.
3. Because Radelle wasn't lying when he said that Mhork also spammed the thread. A thought I agreed with before Radelle even mentioned it.

[Empking]

Commie: As you can see by the following posts I acknowledged Mhork as a thread-messer-upper before Radelle.

Why vote me over Mhork then?

You were the most recent.

@Empking

,


How is this a ploy by someone? By whom? There are either two mafia/werewolves in the game and more than that have posted to create this atmosphere. If you actually think there is a ploy, then why not vote for the two people (Mhork and Commie) who were most actively stagnating the game by dicking around?

Now stop being so vain as to think all my posts are about you, and give your read on Radelle.

[Radelle]

Shos smells of fake scumhunting; at least, when I voted. Now, I doubt his logic. He likes to talk a lot, obviously, but when he calls me and empking a scumteam... it's just illogical. Emp-scum gets "caught" putting someone at L-1, then I, go ahead and put someone else at L-1... yeah, that's really really smart for scum to do.

I didn't realize Emp saying L-1 when he voted for City means he got "caught." Man, he must be horrible then.

You seem to be under the impression that scum must be some smart badasses to not vote people at L-1 like that. If scum are who I'm thinking they may be, I don't think they're very smart at all. I don't think you think shos is very smart either given his supposed illogical scum team.

So, Battousai, what I'm really trying to get at here is,

Are you a smart man?

Picking any 1 person out, let alone 2 (by Radelle) seems implausible. Both are guilty of this. However, what I don't like is how Radelle used this to vote Empking.

Do please quote where I am taking a personal issue with people stagnating the game, because I am preeetty sure I'm voting for Empking for doing the exact thing you said you don't like, i.e implausibly picking out two specific people (then focusing on one for bull crap reasons).

Also, give examples of shos fake scum hunting.

[Radelle]

Tick tock Emp. Have no idea how to respond to me? I'm not the type to let scum just ignore an attack on them as they try to bury their head into the sand to victory.

You've been called out for unreasonably singling out City over everyone else, for reasons which don't make sense (shos made more recent and more stagnanting type posts which you were looking to vote for), over an imaginary ploy which you just fail repeatedly to explain.

Pretty hard to say I'm being false when I'm pretty much right, isn't it?

[Empking]

Tick tock Emp. Have no idea how to respond to me? I'm not the type to let scum just ignore an attack on them as they try to bury their head into the sand to victory.

Where's "tick tock" coming from. You haven't asked me anything that wasn't of the "when did you stop beating your wife" variety; rhetorical questions are one thing, pretending to get prissy when they don't get answered is quite another.

The fact is your questions are a based on a bunch of baloney; I haven't been defensive of Commie let alone overdefensive, I was pointing out that you lied. You try to say that I "Implied shos' change in vote looked scummy" but in order to do that you have to cut out half of a sentence; as you know the "change their vote" was a reference to my voting City and shos voting me for it.

The idea that shos' vote on me that occured just after putting a player on L-1 on Page One could be considered sudden is risible.

The idea that I should base my suspicion on Page 1, a page that I said was stagnant, is farce. The idea that I'm scum for not doing so is scum just messing about.

You ask a huge number of questions, all mixed up in prose, all of them rhetorical and all with with no basis in fact, and then try to pretend I'm ducking out by doing the polite thing and ignoring it.

[CityElectric]

You've been called out for unreasonably singling out City over everyone else, for reasons which don't make sense (shos made more recent and more stagnanting type posts which you were looking to vote for), over an imaginary ploy which you just fail repeatedly to explain.

Pretty hard to say I'm being false when I'm pretty much right, isn't it?

I kinda feel like you're reading too much into Emp's vote. Me, Mhork and shos had both two votes (meaning an Emp vote would put us at L-1, meaning that voting one of us would create the biggest impact on the game). I just so happened to be the one Emp decided to vote. It is stranger that Mhork's Post 15 doesn't appear in his Post 53

On an unrelated note:

bout the odds first - that's choosing 2 correctly out of 6. the options correct are one, the total options are 6!/2!*4!=5*3=15. so 1/15

No, there are three correct options (T=Town vote, M=Mafia vote), TMM, MMT, MTM. So the correct chance is 3/15=1/5.

[Empking]

It is stranger that Mhork's Post 15 doesn't appear in his Post 53

I claimed that you and Mhorke made most of the mess. Radelle when "Nuh huh, it was Mhorke and Commie, Vote: Empking". We agree on Mhorke. We disagree on you and Commie, look at 53 and tell me who is most guilty at of the two of you; and whether Radelle's claimed view is even halfway believable.

[CityElectric]

Both equally guilty, I believe, Commie maybe a bit more than me. What made you think I'm the more guilty one of the two?

[Empking]

Both equally guilty, I believe, Commie maybe a bit more than me. What made you think I'm the more guilty one of the two?

2>1

Howe do you come to Commie as worse?