Micro 70 ~ Mafia in Triplicate (Game Over!)

[Empire]

VOTE: Tierce

TASTE MY STEEL

[Empire]

Shipping Tierce because her reasoning re: NS's flat vote-the-mod joke is ownage.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nobody Special

P-Edit: Vi's inclusion of himself was pretty obviously a joke. Not seeing what is interesting, still.

[Empire]

EBWOP: Sheeping, not shipping...fuck auto correct.

[Empire]

I voted NS for two reasons: 1) I liked the point Tierce brought up regarding his entry into the game as it mirrored exactly what I was thinking when I read it, and 2) I felt like it was a worthwhile thing to apply some pressure on in order to help move the game away from RVS and into more substantive discussion.

More to the point, I don't really like NS's reaction - Tierce already elaborated a bit on this but his responses in #24/#28 come across like he's a bit desperate to push the attention away from him and his suspicion of her in #32 is shallow. Criticizing Tierce for being opportunistic couldn't have been the reason given that he didn't call me out for my vote and his vote comes across as a panicked OMGUS.

F-16's first post is interesting and I can get the reasoning behind the vote on Xalxe as trying to prolong RVS is indeed something I see as somewhat of a scumtell for the early game - I'm just curious as to where he's getting that Tierce "isn't following instructions" as her vote continues the RVS theme of voting a different player.

Something rubbed me the wrong way about saulres' post #20 rubbed me the wrong way but I can't put my finger on what it was now.

[Empire]

EBWOP: "Something rubbed me the wrong way about saulres' post #20 but I can't put my finger on what it was now."

My typing blows lately.

[Empire]

Ok, F-16 is town.

(More votes for NS please.)

[Empire]

The use of the word "ownage" is me saying I really liked Tierce's reasoning. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Empire]

Just got caught up and here's some stuff:

@Shmugen:

I can understand your stance re: NS calling out Tierce/not me but I don't see any reason to focus on one and not the other. As town, I'd expect him to be a little more peripheral/inquisitive and therefore, his vote/FoS on Tierce comes across like he's trying to discredit the primary pusher of the wagon. Shamrock makes a good point about your #59 - if you have a scumread on someone, why wouldn't you want to follow up on it to see whether it's reinforced or diminished? Why does it matter if it's only page 3 of the game?

@Xalxe:

The first part of my #37 was meant to be a response to Shmugen and an expansion of why I'm voting NS so that's why you don't see anything in #43 and I'm replying to the more recent stuff just now. Also, I've said that Tierce mirrored my reasoning re: NS...the logic presented in Tierce's earlier post was sound, especially during the awkward transition-from-RVS phase. I liked her #33 too, just because I didn't explicitly state it doesn't mean I disagree or am not thinking about it.

Now some misc. comments about the other players - rereading saulres's initial posts, I think the reason he rubbed me the wrong way was that his #20 felt like he was trying to lead into an FoS on both NS and Konowa with his questioning but I liked his #53 stance against lurkerdom + call out of Xalxe and Shamrock. It doesn't come across as opportunistic at all but more like he's genuinely worried about inactivity crippling the thread and allowing for an easy scum win, especially given that I have the same worry with games (see this game where I was only one of maybe a couple of people who had more posts than the mod by the end of D1). Agreeing that Konowa's claim and the uncertainty with which he is expressing it comes off as genuine.

Also, Tierce, if your comment about alts is partially directed at me, my "real" main's public and I have no problem with it being outed (I'm actually moving to this account as my main though) if people want me to.

I want to look a little more into Shmugen's meta since I've followed a few games he's been in and he always comes across as scum to me (plus, his comment in #44 seems genuine - "Yes, yes, "Shmugen is scummy", get it out of your system like everyone else in any game I've ever been in"). Likewise with Xalxe.

Finally, I want to note that NS has not come back to this thread since posting a bit elsewhere (more votes on him please).

[Empire]

Oh, I also just noticed it's your birthday.

(Happy Birthday!)

[Empire]

F-16, the townread on you is for a couple of reasons. Your elaboration on the question I asked you about Tierce + your reasoning for voting Shmugen in #39 is very logically sound and shows a pretty deep-ish thought process, especially for such an early phase of the game. What really sealed it for me though was your #42 which came across as super genuine.

About my use of the word "ownage", that's basically just how I talk sometimes. When I'm town I'm really eager to scumhunt since it's much more my forte than playing scum (see: this game as Black Mask where I basically cut corners and coasted hardcore as scum) and I sometimes get carried away and overly excited.

[Empire]

I linked one of my town games in #79. Here's another game on my main Satire (Mini 1373). Unfortunately, those three games are all the completed ones I have on here.

Re: the read on saulres, it was mostly just gut and that comment was meant as a way to articulate what I was feeling and I think it was the way he was phrasing his questions in a leading way that gave me off vibes. About his #53, it's not just his actual stance but the way he actually expresses it ("I've seen scum win several Micro games by lurking so I'm going to be particularly hard on lurkers") - it's the meta-based reference to other Micros that makes his stance seem real.

[Empire]

@mod--I'll be V/LA until Tuesday the 6th while I go work on a 30 page paper. I'll try to post every now and again. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Empire]

Prodded. Still writing obnoxious 30 page paper. Catch up post and content tomorrow.

[Empire]

Finished my paper (30 pages with 160+ citations) but I don't want to do anything involving critical thinking for a bit. Expect a large, obnoxious catch-up wallpost tonight or tomorrow at the latest.

[Empire]

Alright, gonna read the game and post my thoughts when I'm done (expect the post within a few hours).

[Empire]

Ok so I'm finally caught up with the thread. Originally was going to post a RedCoyote-style quote wall but then realized that it would just stretch out the page and no one would read it. So here's a page-by-page on pretty much everything that's gone on in this thread now. Apologies for the thought dump but I really feel like I missed out on this game so I figured it would be best for you guys to get a good impression of my thought process while reading this game:

Page 4:

First thing I noticed is F-16 trying to pressure Tierce over what seems to be his impression that Tierce is not doing enough (by her standards) to push for content in the thread. I think his meta-based concerns regarding Tierce in #91 (“And yeah, that seems different from how you act as town…”) is genuine. What struck me more here is Konowa’s #93 (and later #99) which is really awkward and out of place – trying to poke at F-16’s motivations while simultaneously launching an unexplained comment about NS and Xalxe. It came off as exceedingly shallow to me. NS continues to do nothing to even suggest he’s scumhunting (#94). I like Tierce’s meta response in #97 and I do agree that scum-Tierce would either try to oversell the townread on Konowa or would fabricate other reads completely with the informed perspective that being mafia gives.

Page 5:

Ok, F-16 moving away from Tierce onto pressuring Konowa regarding his statements in the previous page here I think means he likes Tierce’s response too which is cool. The responses Konowa gives are kind of underwhelming here as I don’t really see how focusing on scum’s scumreads would be more helpful than focusing on any of their other reads. F-16 makes a great point in his #103 about Konowa being more concerned with preserving the townread on himself than actually probing into Tierce’s motivations. Ugh, mixed feelings about saulres in #109 – the Xalxe callout is cool but the Tierce one isn’t. F-16 was already putting some heat on her for her attitude in this game and she had already responded, so I don’t really see the point in trying to further this line of inquiry. Shmugen’s unvote of me in #110 is weird but falls in line with his earlier comment about playing an “instigator” role in games (still need to read Shmu’s meta though). Tierce being obtuse in #116/#118/#120 made me laugh.

Page 6:

Eh, Shmu’s comment about F-16 trying to bait people into a chainsaw is kind of a stretch since I think it assumes F-16 has the predictive ability to figure out how someone like Konowa would respond (if that makes any sense). Still not sure if Shmu’s push here is scum motivated because I can see how he would come up with the tonal scumread of F-16 even if I disagree with it. F-16’s response in #126 is very logically sound. I’m noticing that even saulres’ callout of Xalxe is weird because NS has also been lurking too. LOL NS’s #300 – basically silent voting saulres once the heat starts to turn on him. This vote is opportunistic and I’ll be shocked if no one calls him out on this. The question in #132 is totally superfluous considering F-16 had already answered the question before. Um, what the fuck Tierce? (#134). The whole Tierce/F-16 back and forth here is pretty lame, especially considering I have both of them as strong townreads right now. Tierce makes me laugh again in #145 (by the way, lol if you think Tierce would be this intentionally elusive as scum). I’m also starting to notice now that Shamrock’s posts are pretty underwhelming too – mostly superficial probes like in #149 but never really elaborating on it or trying to move things further.

Page 7:

F-16 articulates what I was starting to lean towards in #150 (except with Konowa maybe thrown in there too). Ha, I didn’t notice F-16 only thinking in terms of pairs and forgetting his win-con but yeah that’s more Town points for him. Konowa prod-dodges again in #169…and that’s something distinctly missing from saulres’ #160 given his extreme anti-lurker stance in the early game. Pointing out Xalxe posting elsewhere is nice but I remember NS posting prolifically in other games when I would glance at the site this past week. I’m happy to see that Tierce brings this up in #161 but disappointed that she doesn’t follow up with an FoS because it really deserves one…wait, nevermind #163 (reminder to look at the games Tierce referenced for Xalxe’s meta). Erm, the transition from Konowa #164’s “I have to catch up” to #165’s silent vote on NS is really weird. Shamrock’s vote on #166 is bleh and I don’t know why, it just feels off for some reason. Ok, #167 is actually a really scummy post from saulres – he basically admits to knowing Xalxe flakes as town and switches to Shmugen while appealing to him and while simultaneously making a statement that keeps him open to the Xalxe wagon if it takes flight again (“Not that that means he's town this time, though.”). Shamrock makes the first posts of his I actually like (#170/#171) since that was similar to what I was thinking too.

Page 8:

Hmmm…I can follow saulres’ logic for his Shmu push but still think the timing of it is very awkward and a little too convenient. His townread on Tierce is kinda weird because he didn’t point out, for example, #40. He has to have read the thread at least once before this point because he admits to knowing about Tierce’s calm attitude earlier in #109 – so if he thought Tierce towntold with her #40, why didn’t he point it out then? This just makes it seem like he’s only backing off now that the heat on Tierce has died down and not the product of genuine scumhunting. Also, how is he so convinced that Shmu was scum by page 3, despite clearly having read the thread at least one other time? Shamrock calling him out on that in #181. I didn’t think of the pandering angle that Tierce brings up in #183 but looking at saulres’ post that comment makes some sense. Eh, I normally don’t buy wagon logic so I’m not really feeling the argument F-16 posits in #186 – in one of my earlier Micro games, D1 ended with an all-town wagon on the JK. Scum later used that wagon as arguments to push certain people for mislynches. Not that I think F-16 is scum for pushing this idea, I just don’t find it very reliable personally. Eh, I can buy saulres’ #187 that he might have only had limited time to read this thread before but I really wish this was verifiable. Saulres’ post #193 is reaching, what the fuck? At this point, my mind is starting to wander off a bit here so I don’t really have much of an opinion on the F-16/Tierce exchange here.

Page 9:

F-16 makes a great point about saulres having the time to check other players’ posting history that I didn’t think of before. Even more telling for me is that he singles out Xalxe and not NS in terms of posting history…if he’s trying to posit himself as a comprehensive scumhunter, why isn’t he looking at NS as well? NS’ #204 is just a lame, forced attempt at contribution and towncred..or I guess “shameless posturing” might be a better way of phrasing it. I don’t buy saulres’ rebuttal to what F-16 said in #208…again, why single Xalxe out and not NS? The vote on NS here seems out of place too. Shamrock’s #212 is a great point too and the response in #213 feels like a cop-out. The Tierce/Shmugen back and forth here is uninteresting.

Page 10:

Ugh, getting cold feet about saulres for this comment – “I'm getting flashbacks to Arkham Horror Mafia. But I'm not going to apologize if I'm mislynched this game, I'm being voted for the stupidest of reasons.” I followed that game when it was ongoing and he was really apologetic while he was getting run up and after the hammer. The reaction is different but my gut is telling me it might be genuine. #228 reminds me – where is Konowa? Looking at his recent activity, he has been posting elsewhere pretty frequently. NS’ shift from #237 to #240 is complete bullshit…if he genuinely didn’t still agree with it, he would have unvoted. This just comes across like he’s just backpedalling now that he’s being called out on having his vote parked on saulres. Konowa’s #242 is…really lame, especially considering all that’s happened this game, no comment on any of it. Saulres’ comment about NS pretty much mirrors what I was thinking.

Tl;dr Conclusions

– F-16 and Tierce are very solid townreads. Shamrock is a weaker townread. Saulres’ mid-game was actually really scummy but I think he stepped it up a bit with his reaction to getting wagoned and his recent commentary. I liked Konowa’s claim a lot but he’s basically skated by since then with a lot of drive-by contributions despite posting elsewhere. No opinion on Xalxe since he evidently lurks a lot regardless of alignment and his only substantive contributions to this thread were meh. Not sure on Shmugen at all and I haven’t found the time yet to really dig into his meta.

NS is still my top scumread and I’m fine with a claim + hammer but I think we should wait a bit for Xalxe to actually post stuff. No reason to cut the day short when he still have some time left.

[Empire]

I'm torn on it too. It's a really weird and potentially gamebreaking claim if true but it makes sense in light of his comments in the early game about this game being bastardly.

[Empire]

Just got back from dinner for my father's birthday and holy shit...

Ok so in hindsight, this really shouldn't really be a surprise given the apparent theme of the game, but yeah I'm very much floored here.

100% agree that my cell should be the last one and I think we should focus on F-16's first since I have a very strong townread on him.

Wait...

@mod--judging from your most recent post, the only votes that count for the lynch are the ones from within that cell, right?

God I'm actually really stoked, this idea owns.

[Empire]

I was thinking of taking that one since I perceived it as the easiest of the two with all non-clears but you're right. I got a little too excited and wasn't thinking right.

In that case, yeah, starting with NS/Shamrock/Shmugen is the best option.

[Empire]

I'm fine with a massclaim. The game's Nightless now right? If so, don't really see any downside to it.

Going to reread the thread again. Leaning towards NS' claim being fake since it really doesn't make sense, especially within the context of this new setup.

[Empire]

I'm a VT. Popcorn to Konowa.

Going to be away for today and most of tomorrow so I hope to get this reread done as soon as I can.

Hmm...since I noticed the deadlines for each phase:

@mod--if we lynch well before our allotted deadline time, are the days remaining carried over for the next Rarefaction phase or are they gone for good?

[Empire]

Ok, yeah, I'm dumb ignore me <_<

[Empire]

Yo, I'm here. Posting from my phone though (still in class).

Pretty sweet lynch! As far as the second cell goes, I second wanting to see the results of the director's meta research.

[Empire]

Saulres, I explained why I kept voting in #250. Couldn't continuously keep the pressure up throughout the game because I had to go V/LA, hence the obnoxious catch up post. Not sure about the director which is why I'm waiting on the meta research conclusions; his reads are terrible and tonally he comes across as overblown but given his recent join date, he could just be new and uh...not very good at mafia.

[Empire]

God, I hate being mafia ;-;

I actually had this whole case planned out just before the "real" game started against Konowa but I was pretty much boned when I realized that our cell was going last. I really wish I hadn't gone V/LA during this game but I doubt that would have changed anything. The last few moments of this were my stalling out while trying to figure out if there was a way to save Director but I felt like there wasn't.

Town played really really well. I really did believe F-16 and Tierce were both obvious town by page 2 of the game and I think saulres towntold under pressure. Hope to see you guys in another game!

The mechanic is really cool and interesting. Would love to see this again sometime soon.

Anyway, thanks for letting me join the game Vi! Great modding and I look forward to joining your games in the future (well, if you let me anyway).

[Empire]

Smartphone posting isn't that bad, Vi.

I'll consider joining the next version of this game if I have some free time. Right now, the looming pressure of law school finals is starting to get heavy so I'm trying to cut back a bit on mafia.

[Empire]

I don't mind making the scum QT public. Partners?

[Empire]

We only used it in the pre-game and it's basically me just brainstorming briefly about what rarefaction could be.

[Empire]

Scum QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/f9n6zv3SDaKN