NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)

[Plan B]

i would say mre piggy is probably nervous town than scrum but so far there really has not been enough to say either way with any sort of uncertainty

Setting aside the remarkable fencesitting nature of this post, where do you get "nervous"?

[4nxi3ty]

senjai looks more like naive town.

VOTE: Senjai Obv Chainsaw, you obnoxious teenager

If you thought Senjai was attacking Toonfighter to defend Piggygal then you must've thought both of them did something scummy at the time? Or was that not a serious comment?

vote: addorkable

[Senjai]

Are we really going to argue about RVS?

*snip*
I want bacon

Thanks for pointing out the hilarity here.

*snip*

Lurkers be lurkin'

Lets get the show on the road!

Who do you think is lurking?

Anyone who hasnt posted yet. Obviously. Of course they may have just not had time to post yet, but they be lurkin till they do

And statistically wise, yes

it's very much possible

that you'll find scum during RVS.

Is it plausible?

No.

Not really

we have two weeks. Tons of time to get through everyones bullshit.

you do know that this is logic that usually comes from scum right?

Then why haven't you voted me? Perhaps it does in your scenario, maybe you missed my point, the first half hour of the game REALLY doesn't matter.

I agree. Though 30 mins=//=2 weeks. Though town should take however mych time is needed to scumhunt and shouldn't ever waste it 'cause "there's still time"

My vote isn't on you 'cause your a 12' join date but if you really want it there I'd be more than happy to oblige.

vote:Senjai

Page 2 real vote?
I'm tempted to actually confirm my vote...

So you think its impossible to find scum during RVS?

Unless you have a particular players meta down pat, yes it is. In MY opinion, to reliably find scum without knowing their meta

intimately

is unlikely.

No. no. no. GOD NO!!! Meta is nice and all but its not the say all be all of scumhunting.

Only scum can actually have legit "scum" reads this early because well, they know who town are and know who exactly they should mislynch.

lol no. Playes can have scum reads as early as they can if there's a post that's off or whatever.

This is foolish. Let me explain. You can

ONLY

RELIABLY

GENERATE SCUM READS IN RVS BY KNOWN META

there is a keyword in there, figure it out. Scum can say their scum in RVS and it won't matter. If you play with Person X for three years, you get a very good idea on how he acts in RVS when scum versus when town. Your saying, this guy is scum because he didn't capitalize after the third period in his paragraph. You find scum by testing their consistency, and catching them lying or going against arguments previously made. None of this can happen in RVS.

Also, nobody mentioned join date. It sounds to me like your having trouble justifying your vote on me. I'm happy to lend a hand and say walk were you talk. But make sure you come up with an actual reason for doing so. Voting me without explaining why would have been a stronger vote then saying: It's not because your a 12 join date. Which begs the question, why vote then? Because I told you to? How useful will you be for town as a sheep throughout the game? You cant blame me for wasting time when not all players have made a proper conclusion. Noise between the lines of major arguments is noise. lol.

I didn't like Piggy's chainsaw defense of Senjai. ME thinks there is something worth investigating in there

Glad you think so. I think you're just upset because she shut your argument down. You completely sidestep #28-#30 and ignore the fact that your basis for a real vote is almost nonexistent. She saw VI and called it. Simple as that. I'd like to hear you come up with other reasons for your vote against ME right now. Since I'm the current topic of discussion. (Swag dat wagon ego).

i would say mre piggy is probably nervous town than scrum but so far there really has not been enough to say either way with any sort of uncertainty

[/quote]

Contentless post. Looks to me like trying to buddy the only person who called town on your target.

Things I'd like to know:

#1 -

Plan B

in #38 you came to an understanding with Piggy about something, though it's unclear what. Can you go into further depth on this.
#2 - I'd like Toon to actually sit on his chair and think of a valid reason for voting me When obviously people like Cletus and Demon COre can see its nonsense and are still RVS'ing.
#3 - I'd like to hear JS's arguement for voting me.

Wagons are good. I always get wagonned first. It doesnt really matter who it is that gets wagonned. The fact that the wagon is on me gives me all loads of hints about you other scummies

You should have been there my first game mr 'join date 12' were I legit thought it was a good idea to No Lynch D1. O boy wagon up.

[Senjai]

Anxiety, you always call me Naive Town... It hurts bro. Really

[Toon Fighter]

I am voting you for wanting to prolong RVS for longer than it's necessary, and saying 'we still have two weeks', refusing to post something meaningful. I give it to you, our argument and the wagon on you DID move us out of RVS, but you shouldn't use the fact that it's day one, page one to ignore something of interest and just troll the thread. You should focus on getting out of RVS as quickly as possible, as staying there doing derp derp is beneficial to scum, not town.

Also, I find your buddying of Piggy (again, in your latest post) to be of note.

[Senjai]

I didnt say I had a read on Piggy at all. In fact I'm rather neutral to her. But now we're still in RVS, See NC' and DC's posts, and Anxietys. So obviously your point really isnt valid. I just feel like you want a quicklynch. I'm not buddiyng someone when its

obvious

your attacking them because they didnt agree with your attack on your target.. conflictofinterestmuch. You have stated no other reasons for doing so.

Let me excerpt from the wiki.

The purpose of random voting (and the so-called Random Voting Stage or RVS) is to spur the game into action by causing players to act in revealing ways. For instance, a wagon on someone may cause them to panic, or a player may become a

bit overeager in wanting to put votes down on players

, or a player may suggest a Policy Lynch on another one (with some players agreeing and some disagreeing), etc. In this way, events of significance can come about. The first time many players find something they seriously want to lynch someone over, they will remark that their vote is "no longer random".

I think the slip up most people look for was in your real vote post. But it would appear that many here dont even take that seriously, because your reasoning is completely mutt.

But I feel like learning something today. What is the necessary time period for RVS in your case? Should it end on the first page or the fifth. Since this is so important to you, I'd like an exact answer.

[JacobSavage]

senjai looks more like naive town.

VOTE: Senjai Obv Chainsaw, you obnoxious teenager

If you thought Senjai was attacking Toonfighter to defend Piggygal then you must've thought both of them did something scummy at the time? Or was that not a serious comment?

vote: addorkable

It wasnt serious im afraid?
On a related note, do you think one of them where acting scummy at the time?

[Senjai]

JS as per #52 question 3, I'd like to hear why you still have your original RVS on me and your argument for it. Please and thank you, with 2.5 cherries.

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote, vote piggy

squeal for me, bitch

[JacobSavage]

i would say mre piggy is probably nervous town than scrum but so far there really has not been enough to say either way with any sort of uncertainty

Setting aside the remarkable fencesitting nature of this post, where do you get "nervous"?

Nervous isnt really the right word is it, I mean jumpy thats the word in that immidatly going on the defensive.

#3 - I'd like to hear JS's arguement for voting me.

There is no argument other than I haven't got any strong enough reads to move it to someone else.

[Senjai]

Here are my reads thus far.

ToonFighter: Slight

town

read. After some reflection in the shower I think he's just stubborn. Scum aren't likely to go all out on someone and make themselves that vulnerable to scrutiny this early on IME. Though I would like to know, given his reasoning why he doesnt have issues with #41, #43, and #58. Among others I missed.

Nero Cain: Slight

scum

read. Decided to seriously vote me without any valid reason, commenting on my post count and my desire for him to walk were he talks. Seems to me he was just looking for any reason to jump on a bandwagon and move for a QL.

Unipod Tripod:

scum

read, hasnt commented on anything since page one and is still RVS'ing. This goes for Cletus and DC and anyone else who doesnt feel like commenting on anything that has happened thus far.

Everyone else: neut.

That is all. Time to go interview for a job, wish me luck. Be back in a bit.

[Senjai]

EBWOP: VOTE: Nero Cain

[Demon Core]

Who said my vote was an RVS?

It is quite serious.

[Plan B]

#1 - Plan B in #38 you came to an understanding with Piggy about something, though it's unclear what. Can you go into further depth on this.

It came from this sequence.

I'm a little confused how you get to any kind of Town read on Senjai from Toon Fighter's "real" vote. I mean, are you saying you find Toon Fighter scummy for voting for real on page 2, thus Senjai (as the target of said vote) is more likely Town?

If that's the case, then why avoid confirming your vote on Toon Fighter?

No, Senjai is town because of the quick agreement (and it became serious) of his lynch. His reactions come from town, hands down. That's not a meta thing, that's a "exactly what I do in that situation as town" thing.

Toon is just scummy cause he's always scum and made his vote real on page 2.

In Post 38, I was acknowledging that her Town read on you wasn't based on a scummy read on Toon Fighter.

[4nxi3ty]

Anxiety, you always call me Naive Town... It hurts bro. Really

sorry it is just my opinion, I don't think you are derp town if that is any consolation. Your play so far shows you still have some to learn about concepts like reaction tests, buddying, and lurking.

On a related note, do you think one of them where acting scummy at the time?

piggygals's fos on nero cain and reaction to toonfighter was a bit scummy in my opinion.

[Plan B]

My vote isn't on you 'cause your a 12' join date but if you really want it there I'd be more than happy to oblige.

I read this several times because it confused me.

Then, I came to the conclusion that the join date reference was the reason Nero Cain had not voted for Senjai, yet. As if to say that inexperience was an excuse for what Senjai was doing.

Which, I don't find particulary indicative of alignment for Nero Cain.

But, Senjai's response, here,

Also, nobody mentioned join date. It sounds to me like your having trouble justifying your vote on me. I'm happy to lend a hand and say walk were you talk. But make sure you come up with an actual reason for doing so. Voting me without explaining why would have been a stronger vote then saying: It's not because your a 12 join date. Which begs the question, why vote then? Because I told you to? How useful will you be for town as a sheep throughout the game? You cant blame me for wasting time when not all players have made a proper conclusion. Noise between the lines of major arguments is noise. lol.

reads like Town pissed off and attacking a perceived scummy point.

UNVOTE: Senjai
VOTE: JacobSavage

[DoomYoshi]

How useful will you be for town as a sheep throughout the game?

If you are town, wouldn't you want a second vote?

Overall, you place a lot of emphasis on meta. I disagree that meta helps because most players are actively trying to be aware of their own meta and fix it. However, this is merely a difference of opinion.

Demon, why vote nero cain?

[Demon Core]

My initial reason for voting were the potshot at senjai without a follow up vote (that whole "happy to oblige" thing later still pings on the gutdar, but let's not get into that) and the potshot at Piggygal.

The follow up conversation with piggygal seems really stilted and awkward. It's pretty much NC spitting out a bunch of "politically correct" platitudes that really don't mean anything ("look at me, arguing about

scumhunting

! I'm saying

scumhunting

and ostensibly arguing for it, now give me some cheap towncred").

Like my vote. My "wife" and anxiety should join me on this wagon.

That spinning knight guy is also an acceptable vote.

P.edit: Well, "son", I was just explaining that to everyone.

[Nero Cain]

This is foolish. Let me explain. You can ONLY RELIABLY GENERATE SCUM READS IN RVS BY KNOWN META there is a keyword in there, figure it out. Scum can say their scum in RVS and it won't matter. If you play with Person X for three years, you get a very good idea on how he acts in RVS when scum versus when town. Your saying, this guy is scum because he didn't capitalize after the third period in his paragraph. You find scum by testing their consistency, and catching them lying or going against arguments previously made. None of this can happen in RVS.

No. It doesn't take "meta knowledge" for someone to have a scum read. As an example its a somewhat common scumtell for a player to keep or try to keep in "RVS" after discussion has started. That doesn't take "meta". I've been in many many many games where myself and other random townies think player X is scum for whatever reason. According to your logic that's impossible to do since it requires "meta". Just stop. Your argument is wrong.

But now we're still in RVS, See NC' and DC's posts

For sanitys sake, this guy needs death soon.

Then, I came to the conclusion that the join date reference was the reason Nero Cain had not voted for Senjai, yet. As if to say that inexperience was an excuse for what Senjai was doing.

This. Though excuse isn't the word I'd use. More like "s his scumminess 'cause he's new or 'cause he has a scum pm?"

[Senjai]

This is foolish. Let me explain. You can ONLY RELIABLY GENERATE SCUM READS IN RVS BY KNOWN META there is a keyword in there, figure it out. Scum can say their scum in RVS and it won't matter. If you play with Person X for three years, you get a very good idea on how he acts in RVS when scum versus when town. Your saying, this guy is scum because he didn't capitalize after the third period in his paragraph. You find scum by testing their consistency, and catching them lying or going against arguments previously made. None of this can happen in RVS.

No. It doesn't take "meta knowledge" for someone to have a scum read. As an example its a somewhat common scumtell for a player to keep or try to keep in "RVS" after discussion has started. That doesn't take "meta". I've been in many many many games where myself and other random townies think player X is scum for whatever reason. According to your logic that's impossible to do since it requires "meta". Just stop. Your argument is wrong.

I'm not looking for agreement. I'm

sexy

right and I know it. If someone can say their scum, barring obvious scumslips like roleclaiming and mentioning a qt, and that can or could not be a scum tell it's up in the eye of the perceiver. Perception != truth. Getting your perceptions correct reliably requires knowledge of the player and his personality. End of discussion. If you disagree, thats fine.

But now we're still in RVS, See NC' and DC's posts

For sanitys sake, this guy needs death soon.[/quote]

I was referencing APPARENT RVS votes, apparently DC's was serious, but it looked like RVS at the time. Chill out.

Then, I came to the conclusion that the join date reference was the reason Nero Cain had not voted for Senjai, yet. As if to say that inexperience was an excuse for what Senjai was doing.

This. Though excuse isn't the word I'd use. More like "s his scumminess 'cause he's new or 'cause he has a scum pm?"[/quote]

I am how I am. I always talk and act this way. This is why meta plays a part. You can perceive what you want, perception becomes more akin to truth the more you know somebody. Some expd mafia player can come and correct me, but this is common sense. Common sense > mafia traditional perceptions.

Sounds like your angry all of a sudden because your my #1 scum read. It's okay, life goes on.

[Senjai]

How useful will you be for town as a sheep throughout the game?

If you are town, wouldn't you want a second vote?

Overall, you place a lot of emphasis on meta. I disagree that meta helps because most players are actively trying to be aware of their own meta and fix it. However, this is merely a difference of opinion.

Demon, why vote nero cain?

I understand. I was only talking about during the RVS stages. Not throughout the mid and late game.

[Untrod Tripod]

Here are my reads thus far.

ToonFighter: Slight

town

read. After some reflection in the shower I think he's just stubborn. Scum aren't likely to go all out on someone and make themselves that vulnerable to scrutiny this early on IME. Though I would like to know, given his reasoning why he doesnt have issues with #41, #43, and #58. Among others I missed.

Nero Cain: Slight

scum

read. Decided to seriously vote me without any valid reason, commenting on my post count and my desire for him to walk were he talks. Seems to me he was just looking for any reason to jump on a bandwagon and move for a QL.

Unipod Tripod:

scum

read, hasnt commented on anything since page one and is still RVS'ing. This goes for Cletus and DC and anyone else who doesnt feel like commenting on anything that has happened thus far.

Everyone else: neut.

That is all. Time to go interview for a job, wish me luck. Be back in a bit.

this post is bad and you should feel bad.

I've seen the "person who hasn't commented some arbitrary amount" bullshit scumread so many times it makes me want to die. pack it in, bro. it's not a real thing.

[Senjai]

I just do it to get people to post. If you've seen it a lot then obviously people place some measure of importance to them.

[Untrod Tripod]

your scumreads are post suggestions? that particular scumread was a posting suggestion?

also way to reading comprehension. I called it a "bullshit" scumread, implying that it's not one that actually tells you anything.

[DeasVail]

Bump!