Mini 1390: Game Over

[nhammen]

Vote Count 1.5

Abaddon(3): JacobSavage, Slandaar, Radelle
absta101(3): Tommy, Idiotking, Cheery Dog
Radelle(3): Abaddon, _Sherlock_, toxictaipan
Deltabacon(1): Sable Tip
Cheery Dog(1): Deltabacon

not voting(2): absta101, TheTrollie

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2012-11-17 17:30:00)

[_Sherlock_]

I just kinda skimmed through this game on my phone and used my gut to get some reads. I feel good about these people being part of the town, from most-to-least:

Jacob
Abaddon
Tommy
Trollie
absta
toxic

However, I have bad feelings about Radelle and Idiotking, and both Cheery and Delta felt bad, but I doubt they're both part of the mafia. No one else really made me swing one way or the other on them.

VOTE: Radelle

[_Sherlock_]

Oh, I'm already voting Radelle.

[Tommy]

Welcome, _Sherlock_. What caused your bad feelings about Radelle?

[_Sherlock_]

Like I said, this was all just skimming the game. It was just a gut feeling.

If you'd like me to address something specific in order for me to give a direct opinion, I could do that.

[Idiotking]

Responding to prod. Sorry again guys.

@IdiotiKing

:

I can never tell these things. I don't really pay attention to RVS.

To clarify, what exactly couldn't you tell? When RVS has ended?

Yes. I don't pay attention to RVS so I don't notice when it ends, except for when I start to see a lot of posts that don't have votes changing, and that hadn't started yet.

(regarding toxictaipan's reaction test)
How someone's alignment affects their reaction is irrelevant.

Ok.

I said that's how I might expect smart/cautious town to react. I also said that a townie could react the same way I figured scum would react.

Wait, doesn't that contradict the notion that the effect their alignment has is irrelevant? If a townie is smart or cautious you can expect him to react in that way. Thus being a townie matters. I don't get your argument here.

We're dealing with people here, and you ultimately can't predict exactly how people will react to a given situation. I realize there is room for error, and I'm not basing my reads 100% from this. However, it is still valuable information -- it just has to be examined carefully.

If you can come up with legitimate reasons for why people would react how they do regardless of their alignment, how is it valuable information? You say it has to be examined carefully, but that doesn't really mean anything, given that there's a substantial margin of error.

I was saying a generally cautious approach could be indicative of town,

That's just plain wrong. Cautious people are cautious, bold people are bold. Bold townies exist. Cautious scum exist. If anything it would be fair to argue that scum should be more cautious because they have more reason to be.

@TheTrollie: Could you do us all a favor and explain all of your reads from post 140 (except for the ones you've already done)? Posting reads and then not explaining why you have them isn't useful at all. It's just making noise.

Same thing to Sherlock, actually.

[_Sherlock_]

I've already gone over this.

I just kinda skimmed through this game on my phone and used my gut to get some reads.

[Cheery Dog]

Tell me, Cheery. Who else do you think is scum and why?

My small reads list in Post 110 is still mostly true. Yes I haven't completed identified any scum yet.
Noone has made any posts in which they become obvscum, so I'm still biding my time in waiting (although they may not come). For now I am pretty much being useless town, if you want to lynch me for it, go ahead.

My suspicions are currently amongst the major wagons, and I haven't worked exactly why I am suspicious of them yet. I'm also not in the mood to go and actually check or make cases.

[_Sherlock_]

Okay, Cheery is probably part of the town for that post. Why would he blatantly state that he's being useless and say he's willing to be lynched for it as Mafia? Mafia's primary goal is to stay alive.

[Radelle]

@Toxic

: Except, my timing makes perfect sense. He defended me, I pointed out how that was scummy, he responded indicating I was still a scum read, then I proceed to vote for that reason and also with the realization that he hasn't been pursing me much whatsoever. Afterwards, he continues this behavior and makes a case which doesn't check out. I make a case against him and realize while looking through his ISO that he's been reactive towards people and passive towards his top scum read. There is nothing that difficult to comprehend here.

If this was some 20 page thread where I suddenly changed reads out of nowhere, your timing argument

may

have some merit. But I have a feeling that no matter what I say, you'd take an issue with it.

Toxic, you've barely placed any suspicion on me except you seem a little irrationally upset when I question you. No where have you indicated whatsoever that I am a scum read or scummy. Even when you vote for me you don't call me scum, just that you're "worried." How exactly

am

I scum Toxic? You said earlier you believe I changed votes to Abaddon because my vote on you wasn't gaining traction. If I wanted to be on a bandwagon that would gain traction, it doesn't make sense to then jump onto the bandwagon of one of town's biggest town read. Parama and Sable would have been safer bets if that were my motivation and I didn't want to draw attention to myself.

I'm sure you have other reasons, though.

[Radelle]

@Jacob

: A few things.

1) When you make your notes, are they for yourself or others?
2) Could you link to the game where you used the spreadsheets and got lynched?
3) I don't know if you've realized, but your vote is on Abaddon. Do you mean to have it on Cheery?

@Tommy

:

I think Abaddon and Radelle are town, and that Radelle is caught up in an angry OMGUS campaign. I could have sworn I caught Radelle sheeping me a while back, and I don't think he/she would do that as scum. But I didn't make a note and I can't find it now, so we'll have to call my position on Radelle a gut read. At deadline, I'd rather kill Radelle than nobody.

I haven't ever sheeped you this game.

Also, in no sense of the word is the conversation and votes between Abaddon, Toxic, and I some sort of OMGUS campaign in any sense of that word or what has actually taken place in this thread. The thing that strikes me here, is you saying you would rather kill me than nobody at deadline. You're already assuming that your BW and case on Parama won't fly, but you seem more sure that the badonwagon on me will.

Why is that? Who are some other scum reads?

[Radelle]

I've seen a town Cheery before and he was equally as worthless as I'm seeing here.

[Tommy]

If you'd like me to address something specific in order for me to give a direct opinion, I could do that.

Please have a look at Radelle's posts for evidence that Radelle is scum, then present it in thread. If you can't find any evidence, move onto one of your other scum reads.

I'm also not in the mood to go and actually check or make cases.

This is unacceptable. If you're town, please start playing to your win condition.

You're already assuming that your BW and case on Parama won't fly

I'm afraid I am starting to feel that way. There's been a distinct lack of enthusiasm.

but you seem more sure that the badonwagon on me will.

No, not really. It might.

Who are some other scum reads?

I don't have any other strong scum reads. I'm flip-flopping on you a bit - toxictaipan is right that your vote came out of nowhere, and I'm uncomfortable about clearing you on the basis of a vague memory of you having sheeped me. I'd be happy with a lynch on Cheery Dog or Idiotking because they haven't given us enough substance. _Sherlock_ might end up in that category too, but we'll give him a chance. I might be persuaded to vote for Sable Tip.

[absta101]

@Sherlock

Okay, Cheery is probably part of the town for that post. Why would he blatantly state that he's being useless and say he's willing to be lynched for it as Mafia? Mafia's primary goal is to stay alive.

That's very simple WIFOM.
---

@Radelle

- Can you link us to the game(s) you're using to defend C-Dog.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, does your case on Abaddon consist solely of post 17?

No.

I am getting mixed messages from Abaddon ie;

Slandaar and toxictaipan, what do you think of my case on Parama?

Abaddon summed this up pretty well; The only point worth considering is the vanishing I could see that come from scum Parama more than town him but that is kinda weak.

Trying to figure him out.

@Slandaar - What do you think of Tommy?

He's town.

[Slandaar]

Absta what is your take on Radelle?

[toxictaipan]

@Radelle:

Just because someone doesn't use the word, "scummy," doesn't mean they lack suspicion. Check Post 139. "

The fishy part

, though, is that you're only just now bringing it up." "Fishy," is a synonym for, "suspicious." And if that's not good enough for you, take a look at Post 145. "It's one thing to call him out, it's another to be hypocritical about it (

and scummy to boot!

)." I don't know what more you want from us (you attacked Tommy for basically the same thing, when he said something was, "spooky"). It doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to figure out that I actually do find you scummy, and why.

I like how you basically ignored every point in my rebuttal in favor of attacking me yet again, though.

@Idiotking:

It doesn't contradict. Slandaar was trying to argue that the reactions would be totally different depending on whether or not Sable Tip or I was scum. My test doesn't care about the random nature of role distribution. It doesn't matter if the reactions differ in any case. Again, what's important is getting those reactions, and reading them accurately.

[Tommy]

Slandaar, I still don't know what your case is on Abaddon.

[nhammen]

Prodding Abaddon

[Abaddon]

Prod received. Sorry, my weekend has been extremely busy. I'll catch up fully in the morning.

[TheTrollie]

i gotta do some reading in this game. Was out of town over the weekend, on my way home took a look at tommy. I find he picks easy battles, and his posts put me slightly on edge, but for some reason i can't shake this thought that hes probably town.

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: Radelle

to whoever was asking me to explain my reads: I have explained whichever ones I feel are important (or possible) to explain

[nhammen]

Also as its late at night, I really CBA to go through my spreadsheet and take my comments out and format it so here's a link to it

I just caught this. Although I will allow links, they have to be done in such a way as the content is not editable.

Editing something that has been linked to is the same as editing one of your posts and is against the rules.

I am sending you a PM about this now.

Update: He has promised not to edit the spreadsheet, and I am satisfied with that.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, I still don't know what your case is on Abaddon.

Fake reaction to Radelle vote follows into a null read on Parama who reacted in the same way; doesn't make sense from town.

[Tommy]

So Abaddon should have awarded Parama a town read for agreeing with him about Radelle?