Mini 1390: Game Over

[Cheery Dog]

Isn't that how this game works?
We find someone we believe to be scum, and unless they're proved otherwise, then we'll continue to believe they are scum. How is believing someone to be scum a bad reason?

I just find the attitude thetrollie has about me is much more likely to come from scum, and I can't see the sense in shooting down all attacks on a null read to be coming from town. However I said in my other posts, I can see a logical reason for scum to be wanting to shoot attacks down on their 'null reads'. (the only problem would be if I'm a PR - I guess if he believed me to me one then it would make sense to shoot down attacks, but that would also involve having a town read)

[absta101]

I can't see the sense in shooting down all attacks on a null read to be coming from town.

If he has you as a null read that already means he thinks the "scummy" or "towny" things you have done are either non-existent (he doesn't believe them to be scummy/towny) or they're balanced.

I had a look back and I kinda understand the case against him now.

(the only problem would be if I'm a PR - I guess if he believed me to me one then it would make sense to shoot down attacks, but that would also involve having a town read)

Don't do this again...
UNVOTE:
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@Trollie

In almost every game I've been in there has been a CD-esq player. So far that player has flipped town every time.

Can you provide all this evidence please.
Also, how many games have you been in?

[TheTrollie]

he is saying that I should not be defending him if I do not think he is town. He is not understanding that I am not defending him, just demanding that people stop treating bad reasons to think he is scum as good reasons.

[TheTrollie]

^this responds to this:

No, but unless it's been proven that people that don't even have town reads on me are also town when they're defending me heavily, I'm going to believe that they must be scum and wanting to keep me alive to switch with in LYLO.

I don't fully understand what you're saying here. Unless it's proven that Trollie is town, you think he's scum?

That's a really bad reason to want someone dead. Explain yourself.

didnt see there was another page already

@Trollie

In almost every game I've been in there has been a CD-esq player. So far that player has flipped town every time.

Can you provide all this evidence please.
Also, how many games have you been in?

Yes I can. I've been in a fair amount of games. Between 15 and 20 id say. I'd have to go back through all of them to get player names. I can tell u it was RobertMonana in the last game and in my newbie it was PapiBear

[JacobSavage]

I personally think we should keep CD around for a few more days just until we get a better case on him and have more infomation.
However my opionion on how to lynch is currently no one, but that will change soon I hope.

[Idiotking]

Radelle:
- overjustification
- picking easy fights
- too cautious

Those are words, yes. Now make them explanations. HOW was Radelle overjustifying? WITH WHOM and IN WHAT WAY has Radelle been picking easy fights? HOW was Radelle too cautious? Cite examples. I'm guessing the accidental quote was you looking for sources to back up what you're saying, but then you never cite any of them. I don't see how you can possibly think we would be satisfied with "overjustification" and just leaving it at that.

@Idiot

- Can you replace out please. Your low activity and contributions are hurting us.

This is insulting. I'm doing my best to refrain from flaming you right now. I know I have been comparatively inactive and that I could contribute more, but don't you dare tell me to replace out. If you think I'm intentionally lurking then lynch me. If I'm lurking enough to have to be replaced then it'll happen whether you ask me to leave or not. But don't ever tell me to leave.

[Idiotking]

As it stands, I'm actually have a few hours at the moment, so I'm going to go through and do an in-depth examination of every player thusfar. If I finish it it'll definitely be a wallpost, but I'll try and keep it organized.

[nhammen]

Well, I had hoped to get a post in as soon as the game hit another page, but my birthday had other plans.

Vote Count 1.8

Radelle(4): _Sherlock_, toxictaipan, TheTrollie, Tommy
TheTrollie(4): Idiotking, Deltabacon, Cheery Dog, Abaddon
Abaddon(2): Slandaar, Radelle
Deltabacon(1): kwll

not voting (2): JacobSavage, absta101

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2012-11-17 17:30:00)

V/LA till Monday

Noted

[absta101]

@Trollie

Yes I can. I've been in a fair amount of games. Between 15 and 20 id say. I'd have to go back through all of them to get player names. I can tell u it was RobertMonana in the last game and in my newbie it was PapiBear

Can you link me to a few ISOs please.
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@Cheery

- What do you make of post #304?
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@Idiot

- Looking forward to that wall post.

[TheTrollie]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

those are the two that were most readily on my mind.

i actually kinda wanna move on from CD because i think its distracting us, but i just didnt wanna see a stupid lynch again (btw, i have been on the side of these lynches until the game before this one, and thats how i learned my lesson)

[Cheery Dog]

I personally think we should keep CD around for a few more days just until we get a better case on him and have more infomation.
However my opionion on how to lynch is currently no one, but that will change soon I hope.

My alignment isn't going to change between now and then, do you actually think I am scum now?
If we require a better case on me, is that also the case for everyone else? If not, why am I special?

[Abaddon]

Because you're "special"

[TheTrollie]

I personally think we should keep CD around for a few more days just until we get a better case on him and have more infomation.
However my opionion on how to lynch is currently no one, but that will change soon I hope.

My alignment isn't going to change between now and then, do you actually think I am scum now?
If we require a better case on me, is that also the case for everyone else? If not, why am I special?

very dumb

its not that ur alignment will change, its that we will have more to work with when reading u
and that second part: we dont necessarily have bad cases on other ppl so no, ur not special, ur just the one with the bad case

[TheTrollie]

cheery's post is a good example of one that seems very off as town, but then if you think about it there is no scum motivation either

[nhammen]

Prodding Radelle

[nhammen]

Probably won't be able to post for about 48 hours from now - sorry.

I would prod Tommy if this was not in his last post. Instead I will give a few more hours.

[Tommy]

Mod, thanks for your flexibility.

I quoted him out of context?

Yeah. Sure, it was hilarious when he said he'd never called Cheery Dog town and then Cheery Dog dug up that early post. But that post was from RVS. Then quite a bit later Cheery Dog was on his scum list. This was discussed at the time and TheTrollie addressed people's queries on the subject, but you act as though you've just triumphantly found new and damning evidence:

scum pile:
Idiotking
Tommy
Jason Wazza

Cheery Dog

Radelle

He's a steaming pile of inconsistancies, and he is scum.

It's true that he voted Radelle without giving a reason though. I'm glad Idiotking called him on that.

Kwll, can you just give us anything you've got so far?

Idiotking, what were the results of your several-hours investigation yesterday?

[toxictaipan]

@Cheery Dog: Any response to Post 288?

I have to disagree with Abaddon. Taking things that are not conclusive and making definitive statements about them -- especially this early -- is probably more of a town tell than anything, given the nature of the game.

I don't like the wagon on TheTrollie. I've read him in ISO, and his reaction to Cheery Dog's play seems pretty town to me. Cheery Dog's play is the kind that you want to call scummy, but you know deep down is probably just bad, anti-town play. Without checking any meta, I have to agree with TheTrollie that those types of players aren't exactly uncommon. His posts show the kind of inner conflict one would have in this situation.

[_Sherlock_]

I agree with the above, for a different reason. Look at these two wagons side-by-side:

Vote Count 1.8

Radelle(4): _Sherlock_, toxictaipan, TheTrollie, Tommy
TheTrollie(4): Idiotking, Deltabacon, Cheery Dog, Abaddon

The Radelle wagon has all players that I feel pretty good about being town. However, I feel somewhat bad about everyone on the Trollie wagon (except Abaddon, and he's even just leaning town). Therefore, I think Trollie is the counterwagon to Radelle-scum, and there is at least one, if not two, scum on Trollie's wagon right now.

@Idiot, Delta, Cheery, & Abaddon: How do you feel about this vote-count logic?

[Idiotking]

At the moment I'm still working on my wallpost (it wound up being much bigger than I thought), but I'm going to pop in and answer that real quick.

Obviously I don't agree with your logic, because it assumes that your reads are accurate. I don't think I'm scum, and I think Deltabacon is town. While I do see CD as scum (will explain in my wallpost) and I see Abaddon as leaning scum (ditto), I still think Trollie is scum. Your argument only holds up if Trollie is town, and I frankly cannot understand why you think Trollie's play would be town thusfar. I should also state here that I haven't gotten to my read on Radelle yet, so I don't know if I agree or disagree with you that Radelle is scum, but for now I think Radelle would actually be the counterwagon to Trollie scum.

Did that make sense? I'm a little addled right now.

[_Sherlock_]

That's understandable.

When will your post be up? I'm interested in it.

[Idiotking]

Relatively soon. I've got nothing to do all day, so I've got time to focus on it. I just finished my read on Parama, and now I'm moving on to Radelle (I'm going from top to bottom on the "display posts by user" thing). After that, editing and post.

[_Sherlock_]

That means I'm first! ^.^

[nhammen]

Prodding Deltabacon

[Deltabacon]

Prod-dodge post, because everything I say remains true, and I'm awaiting Idiotking's essay on life and everyone.