Mafia 158: Titanium. Game over

[pappums rat]

@ mod: hypothetically if there was a role in your game that could daykill, would the player be allowed to make the kill in the game thread?

[mykonian]

No. It'd have to be via pm.

[NJAC]

@NJAC: how do you know the scum dont have power roles?

I don't know it. What kind of PRs for scum would make it balanced? I can imagine an investigative role for them or something (they NK'ed a blocker) but still think that's not enough. But you're right about there's a lot of possibilities not considered yet, so maybe his claim is not that false.

I also agree that we must vote about who should be killed in case TLM is saying the true. Day would be over after the kill?

[10506670]

I'm hoping the daykill happens immediately so we can discuss it.

If your claim is correct, you better prove it now. I'd suggest killing buldermar, and based on the flip we decide the last lynch.

[mykonian]

votecount

thelocomotion (2): buldermar, pappums rat

not voting (4): 10506670, NJAC, thelocomotion, smashbard

With 6 players it is 4 to lynch (3 to no lynch)

deadline is on the 22 of november.

[TheLocomotion]

I am more inclined to kill you numbers. If Gnarl weren't in my hydra, you'd be dead.

But, fortunately for you, he is. We'll discuss it.

Also, if you idiots think that I'd fakeclaim a dayvig and then not vig, you're out of your minds really.

[Smashbard]

Locomotion is right. If he were scum he would fakeclaim Vig, not Dayvig. I'm officially off that wagon.

Although I would definitely suggest Locomotion use the Daykill today. There's no way I'm believing this is a game with one scum. Therefore, we need to find and kill scum today or else we lose.

Whether that's through Locomotions daykill, or through a lynch, we need to get it done. I'm going to assume that Daykilling would not end the day phase. Although I don't know what's the industry standard rule on that. So I think Locomotion should kill before we lynch someone.

That way best case scenario, day phase doesn't end and we could potentially turn this entire game around and win in one fell swoop. Worst case scenario day phase ends and we lose anyway through miskill or mislynch.

[buldermar]

Buldermar, there are two scum left. A blocking role shouldn't affect whether scum wins or not, because the fact is if there were 3 we would not be capable of lynching anyone = scum win.

You're right - there would have to be a vig or something similar. Thank you for correcting me.

[buldermar]

And NJAC:

Ok, I think I need to reread a bit but at first glance I'm saying definitely Buldermar and one between numbers and

Hiraki/greygnarl/TheLocomotion

, with numbers leaning more scum than TLM.

On another note: ideas about the setup? it's just two scums vs town compound by vanillas and two blockers? Is that even balanced?

Isn't it quite perculiar that they both were on the TBM wagon, they both were so certain of TBM being scum, and they are now both so certain about ME being scum. In the meantime,

they don't find each other even remotedly suspicious

. I'm completely fine with lynching TheLocomotion and I'm strongly reconsidering my initial read of NJAC.

I think the very same post you're quoting explicitly says I also suspect TheLocomotion, and I didn't even vote you because I'm not as sure about my reads now as I was about TBM and maybe Maenara. So it's false that I don't find TLM "remotedly" suspicious, and wrt my reads I think that's the reason to why I'm still alive, just like buldermar, because I've been wrong and you can use that to your favor like you're doing it right now.

Ok, remotedly is a bad word, but TheLocomotion is 3rd in the scum-line. I'd say that can't be much sincere suspicion.

[buldermar]

Oh my... well I'm off now, I hope you see this before numbers and unvote, I mean we're somehow agreeing about him being scum and we're letting him hammer , gg town...

So, neither you nor numbers hammered.

In Loco-scum-world, one of the remaining players would have to be scum. That means

one of NJAC, numbers, pappums rat

.

In loco-town-word, two of the remaining players would have to be scum. That means

two of NJAC, numbers, pappums rat

. Two players out of a group of three players are scum, and two players from that group had a chance to hammer but didn't. However, any scum in loco-town-world would hammer when given the opportunity, and

at least one scum had the opportunity

. In other words,

LocoMotion cannot be town!

LocoMotion is now confirmed scum from my perspective. Also, if you acknowledge me being town, it logically follows that LocoMotion is scum.

[buldermar]

Also, given the nature of how NJAC tried to sell numbers potentially hammering I find it increasingly likely that he's a scum partner of LocoMotion.

[buldermar]

Read on NJAC is prob town. Read on rat is almost certain town.
Claim: 1-shot dayvig.

FWIW this claim has no impact on the fact that one of the two scums had a chance to hammer you but didn't if you're a non-scum role. In other words, you're scum.

[buldermar]

I am more inclined to kill you numbers. If Gnarl weren't in my hydra, you'd be dead.

But, fortunately for you, he is. We'll discuss it.

Also, if you idiots think that I'd fakeclaim a dayvig and then not vig, you're out of your minds really.

You have a scum-daykilling role that can imitate vig. That's the only possibility I see.

[buldermar]

Locomotion is right. If he were scum he would fakeclaim Vig, not Dayvig. I'm officially off that wagon.

Although I would definitely suggest Locomotion use the Daykill today. There's no way I'm believing this is a game with one scum. Therefore, we need to find and kill scum today or else we lose.

Whether that's through Locomotions daykill, or through a lynch, we need to get it done. I'm going to assume that Daykilling would not end the day phase. Although I don't know what's the industry standard rule on that. So I think Locomotion should kill before we lynch someone.

That way best case scenario, day phase doesn't end and we could potentially turn this entire game around and win in one fell swoop. Worst case scenario day phase ends and we lose anyway through miskill or mislynch.

Neither NJAC nor numbers hammered Loco when they had the chance and with two scum at least one of them is scum. Either a scum didn't use the opportunity to hammer, or LocoMotion is scum.

LocoMotion, from your perspective this means that, given you actually ARE a dayvig as you claim, you need to kill one of NJAC and numbers. These are your only two logical options.

Also, if LocoMotion does not prove himself to be a dayvig before the end of this day, he has to be lynched because then he's scum.

That is all.

[buldermar]

I still can't seem to comprehend why NJAC or numbers would chose not to hammer a non-scum when given the opportunity. Could anyone please try to explain it?

[NJAC]

@Mod: Would day be over after TLM's kill?

[NJAC]

Ok, I'm a bit confused but I'll share my thoughts the way they're coming:

I'm not completely sure about TLM's claim tbh. And after reading buldermar's latest posts I think there's a slight chance he's not scum. From my perspective these are the two possibilities:

1) TLM is lying and numbers is his partner.

2) TLM is saying the true, numbers is town, bulder and rat are the scumpair.

What would I suggest?

We should demand TLM to kill numbers, if he refuses to do it or simply the kill is not performed (because he's not a dayvig as he says) then we're confirming both as scum. If TLM kills numbers and he flips scum, I'll be more confused about TLM's alignment and be wondering a lot about why numbers didn't hammer, but we'll finally get rid of one scum. If TLM kills numbers and he flips town, then TLM's claim will be confirmed and the obvious scumpair will be bulder and rat.

Please tell me if I'm missing something.

[NJAC]

LocoMotion, from your perspective this means that, given you actually ARE a dayvig as you claim, you need to kill one of NJAC and numbers. These are your only two logical options.

How in this world would these be his logical options? If he's town as he says he would not kill those who didn't hammer him. In that case the logical options are those who were in his wagon (namely you and rat).

[buldermar]

Ok, I'm a bit confused but I'll share my thoughts the way they're coming:

I'm not completely sure about TLM's claim tbh. And after reading buldermar's latest posts I think there's a slight chance he's not scum. From my perspective these are the two possibilities:

1) TLM is lying and numbers is his partner.

2) TLM is saying the true, numbers is town, bulder and rat are the scumpair.

What would I suggest?

We should demand TLM to kill numbers, if he refuses to do it or simply the kill is not performed (because he's not a dayvig as he says) then we're confirming both as scum. If TLM kills numbers and he flips scum, I'll be more confused about TLM's alignment and be wondering a lot about why numbers didn't hammer, but we'll finally get rid of one scum. If TLM kills numbers and he flips town, then TLM's claim will be confirmed and the obvious scumpair will be bulder and rat.

Please tell me if I'm missing something.

Your perspective is not missing anything as far as I can tell but you're essentially just copying what I already concluded from my perspective. Since I know I'm town the obvious scumpair would you and rat, as opposed to me and rat.

I'm undecided as to whether it would be better to have him kill you or numbers, should his claim be sincere.

[pappums rat]

You know buldermar, it is possible to put all your thoughts into one post instead of spamming the hell out of the thread, right?

@TheLocomotion: Go ahead and shoot whichever of buldermar or numbers you would prefer, but please do so soon. There is no reason to drag this out. If you can in fact daykill, I think I would put you in the clear because giving the scum a daykill in a game with such low town power as it is would be fucked up. I dont see why you have not used your power yet, and am still skeptical as to whether or not you actually have this power. I think it is possible you could have fakeclaimed this in an attempt to stave off your lynch and then say you will use it tomorrow if we lynch "right" today.

P. edit: No, NJAC is my second strongest townread after Smashbard (my only non-confirmed townread, in fact). NJAC would be the worst person to daykill.

[TheLocomotion]

This is gnarl:
If Smash and Hiraki agree then we will shoot Numbers.

[buldermar]

LocoMotion, from your perspective this means that, given you actually ARE a dayvig as you claim, you need to kill one of NJAC and numbers. These are your only two logical options.

How in this world would these be his logical options? If he's town as he says he would not kill those who didn't hammer him. In that case the logical options are those who were in his wagon (namely you and rat).

I'll try to explain again.

I'm town. Smashbaard is town.

If Loco is town, it would mean that at least one of you and numbers are scum. Therefore, Loco being town presupposes that at least one scum did not hammer him.

In the case that Loco is town and scum did not hammer, it is far more likely that both of you and numbers are scum than that one of you and numbers are scum with rat in my opinion because rat actually put him on L1 (which, in case that rat + one of you and numbers is scum, would give the town one of you and numbers the opportunity to hammer). It simply makes a lot more sense that he's town and put Loco on L1. All this is obviously still on the premise that Loco actually

is

a dayvig, but if he is he should certainly lynch one of you and numbers.

[buldermar]

You know buldermar, it is possible to put all your thoughts into one post instead of spamming the hell out of the thread, right?

@TheLocomotion: Go ahead and shoot whichever of buldermar or numbers you would prefer, but please do so soon. There is no reason to drag this out. If you can in fact daykill, I think I would put you in the clear because giving the scum a daykill in a game with such low town power as it is would be fucked up. I dont see why you have not used your power yet, and am still skeptical as to whether or not you actually have this power. I think it is possible you could have fakeclaimed this in an attempt to stave off your lynch and then say you will use it tomorrow if we lynch "right" today.

P. edit: No, NJAC is my second strongest townread after Smashbard (my only non-confirmed townread, in fact). NJAC would be the worst person to daykill.

Shut up and actually read the important things I pointed out, jesus. It's not like anyone else paid attention to what could be deduced by the lack of hammer of both of NJAC and numbers.

[pappums rat]

I read what you said, that doesnt mean you have to make 10 posts in a row to say it.

[buldermar]

No but it does mean that you're wasting time bitching about things that are irrelevant to figuring out this puzzle. Also, it was 8 posts in a row, not 10.