Micro 75: Bureaucracy Mafia (Game Over)

[Shamrock]

The scum team could easily be within {robert2424, pirate mollie, Breakfast}.

[Maestro]

Goody, an alt-slip. Brb, checking meta for NJ/Taz.

In the meantime, pirate, I don't really think your vote is justified given the level of explanation you gave.
@Shamrock/Jake: your votes are good. I want your thoughts: AJ/Robert Scumteam possible or no?

P-Edit @Shamrock: ^ Read above.
I think the whole team is definitely in [Robert2424, Aj The Epic, Breakfast,

one other person

]

[Empking]

Vote Count 9

Jake from State Farm (2) - Aj The Epic, Robert2424
Breakfast (2) - maverick_alpha, pirate mollie
Aj the epic (2) - Breakfast, Jake from State Farm
Robert2424 (1) Shamrock
Shamrock (1) - njoseph

Not voting: Maestro

5 to lynch.

[Maestro]

@Emp: I believe I unvoted again.

[Maestro]

Spoiler: Here it is.

I can't imagine this one sheet of paper being able to claim Maverick is mafia. Let's be honest, if it meant he was mafia, it'd be way too easy for the town. If he is mafia, it probably would be revealed in many papers. My idea is that the papers were basically assigned to a random person to have an even chance of showing up with anyone, as to not make it unfair to any one person.

This is true, but it also could be for WIFOM's sake with Empking assuming we won't believe the information we're given...even if it isn't much information.
At this point though, I was in a bad place yesterday and I was basically reaction-testing. maverick looks Town after my vote, so UNVOTE: .

Not sure what it means yet, and not sure why you're setup speculating, m_a.

[Jake from State Farm]

Goody, an alt-slip. Brb, checking meta for NJ/Taz.

In the meantime, pirate, I don't really think your vote is justified given the level of explanation you gave.
@Shamrock/Jake: your votes are good. I want your thoughts: AJ/Robert Scumteam possible or no?

P-Edit @Shamrock: ^ Read above.
I think the whole team is definitely in [Robert2424, Aj The Epic, Breakfast,

one other person

]

actually my emotional gut read on robert right after he voted me was he is scum with Shamrock if both of them are scum, i don't really see a Robert/AJ connection but when I re-read i will look for that.

I still think Shamrock is probably scum for reasons I said before.

[pirate mollie]

this post pings hard.

VOTE: breakfast

Why?

this is my reasoning: aj/jake and I will throw maestro in there as well all looks like a town on town tard fight. I don't get maestro's reasoning for giving maverick a null/town read to me maverick just reads null but I think that could be just a difference in the way do things.

when I see town on town fights I look to see who is either wking, stoking the fires or distancing and it kind of looks like breakfast was doing all 3.

it is a wobbly read btw. I could easily go with robert cos I think he looked like pondscum but I am more null on breakfast so I want to shake a read out of them. this might not make sense to you but it makes perfectly good sense to me. the round is still early and I am the gathering of info phase.

make sense now?

[pirate mollie]

eta: a bunch of xposts that I am only reading right now

[pirate mollie]

Goody, an alt-slip. Brb, checking meta for NJ/Taz.

In the meantime, pirate, I don't really think your vote is justified given the level of explanation you gave.
@Shamrock/Jake: your votes are good. I want your thoughts:

AJ/Robert Scumteam possible or no?

P-Edit @Shamrock: ^ Read above.
I think the whole team is definitely in [Robert2424, Aj The Epic, Breakfast,

one other person

]

wrt the bold: are thinking this cos aj hardcore mansplained (this is my SOH so nobody get offended) robert's misunderstanding of terminolgy? cos I read that as townish.

[Aj The Epic]

no, I want to attack you because you don't care about the papers and you want them out of circulation. That isn't town motivated.

This is complete crap. I haven't said anything about wanting the papers out of circulation. I can't even find where I've said anything remotely close to "Burn the papers" or something that would suggest my want for them to be removed. Stop lying.

the fact that I had this thought last night, was due to the fact that last night you repeated yourself and again mentioned that you thought the papers contained that information. There was so much going on the first time you posted it I didn't really catch it.

The fact that I thought of this last night also has no bearing on how much or how little thought I put into it, like that is even relevant anyway. Even if i had put lots of thought into it, it doesn't make it any less true

Fine, acceptable answer.

When you voted me earlier, you originally hesitated before you voted me. - Town should have no reason to hesitate, especially when you changed your mind an hour later with nobody else adding to the conversation.

also when you voted me you said I was in no place to be lynched - this shows cautious behavior. - Town should not have to worry about being cautious.
reason to hesitate, especially when you changed your mind an hour later with nobody else adding to the conversation.also when you voted me you said I was in no place to be lynched - this shows cautious behavior. - Town should not have to worry about being cautious.

Then we differ here. I already mentioned that I like to be very accurate with my accusations. My caution was that I was more suspicious about Sham's vote and "sheeping" than I was about your actions. But, I decided to vote eventually because I figured I could

A. Be attentive enough to pull back should the lynch go to quickly
and B. Perhaps draw you out to make you post more.

Over time, I felt my vote was more and more justified because of how shelled up you were. This complete lack of input for roughly 3 pages was encouraging that I felt I found someone who literally had no capabilities to function as scum under pressure. In fact, it took until Breakfast started posting in earnest for you to even start posting what I felt was real contributions to begin with.

Caution is part of my play style, just as well as being uncooperative the early part of the day seems to be part of yours. I'd say that being completely unhelpful and standoffish is scummy, probably more so than my supposed caution. You suggest that I am cautious to worry about my image. No, I'm cautious because I'm not going to make myself look like a fool and blindly step onto a bandwagon.

post 96 - this is where you say you won't fish for information but then you go and fish for information. town should not be fishing.

I spent a great deal of posts explaining my logic on why I felt I was not fishing, and that was because I probably would've bet my college savings on what I thought you had on that paper. Of course, it's a good thing I don't gamble. But, the new development does beg one question: Why weren't you more helpful? If you neither understand any of it, nor does Maestro (as for what he's said at least), would it not be more helpful to bring to a head in front of the town, or at least ask what a certain symbol is, just off hand, to see if anyone knew?

post 130 - this is the post where you say if I was to be hammered early it would be stupid and would be re-paid in time - This is grandstanding and is unneccessary if you are town. In fact most of your posts where you talk about how a town person should play are examples of grandstanding. Like your way is somehow the only way a person can play and if they don't play by your rules this must mean they are scum. lolif I was to be hammered early it would be stupid and would be re-paid in time - This is grandstanding and is unneccessary if you are town. In fact most of your posts where you talk about how a town person should play are examples of grandstanding. Like your way is somehow the only way a person can play and if they don't play by your rules this must mean they are scum. lol

Firstly, Scum to town ration is generally 1:3, 1:4. Sacrificing a town member to find a scum member is actually a fairly proficient trade if you can manage such. Secondly, you'd need a damned good reason to come in and hammer when days are weeks long, or you'd have a tough time explaining yourself later. Thirdly, through two posts, you proved to be VERY self conscious of the amount of votes on you, first denoting that Robert didn't mention you were at L-1, and second telling the mod that Maestro had in fact unvoted for you. Now, while the second was an honest mistake and I'm not sure what you'd justify the first as, there really isn't (or shouldn't) be any reason to worry. In fact, you probably could've contacted the mod in private and then ploy to see if anyone WAS going to bite and "hammer". Wouldn't that be an interesting take? All I felt was that you were extremely self conscious about the amount of votes on you. You seemed to adhere to the amount of votes more than the reason to which they were placed.

But wouldn't there have to be relatively sizeable amount of scum for #6 to be reasonable?

Or a very low amount. Switch could go either way. Which WOULD be reason to hold close, but that's not happening in this game, I feel.

this post pings hard.

VOTE: breakfast

Why?

I think it was because of how unlikely any of the options were and the fact that they were put out simply to try and trip up my logic again. (Unfortunately, it wasn't necessary)

And the parentheses represent exactly why I hate to be wrong.

[Aj The Epic]

You suggest that I am cautious to worry about my

town

image. No, I'm cautious because I'm not going to make myself look like a fool and blindly step onto a bandwagon.

Corrected (bold word) because I think that I failed to differentiate between the two originally.

[Shamrock]

this is my reasoning: aj/jake and I will throw maestro in there as well all looks like a town on town tard fight. I don't get maestro's reasoning for giving maverick a null/town read to me maverick just reads null but I think that could be just a difference in the way do things.

when I see town on town fights I look to see who is either wking, stoking the fires or distancing and it kind of looks like breakfast was doing all 3.

it is a wobbly read btw. I could easily go with robert cos I think he looked like pondscum but I am more null on breakfast so I want to shake a read out of them. this might not make sense to you but it makes perfectly good sense to me. the round is still early and I am the gathering of info phase.

make sense now?

Hmm, this is actually a good point. My reasoning for finding Breakfast scummy is actually somewhat similar though not identical (I think he is making safe posts about the mechanics to avoid taking positions/giving serious analysis).

Goody, an alt-slip. Brb, checking meta for NJ/Taz.

In the meantime, pirate, I don't really think your vote is justified given the level of explanation you gave.
@Shamrock/Jake: your votes are good. I want your thoughts: AJ/Robert Scumteam possible or no?

P-Edit @Shamrock: ^ Read above.
I think the whole team is definitely in [Robert2424, Aj The Epic, Breakfast,

one other person

]

I've actually been reading Aj as town over the last few pages, but I'll take another look at him in a bit.

[Jake from State Farm]

This is complete crap. I haven't said anything about wanting the papers out of circulation. I can't even find where I've said anything remotely close to "Burn the papers" or something that would suggest my want for them to be removed. Stop lying.

actions speak louder than words. I never said you actually said you want them gone, but your actions prove you do.

But, the new development does beg one question: Why weren't you more helpful? If you neither understand any of it, nor does Maestro (as for what he's said at least), would it not be more helpful to bring to a head in front of the town, or at least ask what a certain symbol is, just off hand, to see if anyone knew?

I thought you knew how this wifom game works... anyway I answer this question at the beginning of 188. I have not said if I can read the paper or not, nor will I say if I can read it or not. This isn't something that can be brought out in the open for discusssion, because the people who can read this are not normal Bureaucrats, the people who can read the symbols have more power than a typical Bureaucrat. Bringing this out in the open for discussion helps scum not town because as soon as someone says they have the ability to read it, they immediately put a target on their head. (If you are town i don't think you really know how to play this game)

Thirdly, through two posts, you proved to be VERY self conscious of the amount of votes on you, first denoting that Robert didn't mention you were at L-1, and second telling the mod that Maestro had in fact unvoted for you. Now, while the second was an honest mistake and I'm not sure what you'd justify the first as, there really isn't (or shouldn't) be any reason to worry. In fact, you probably could've contacted the mod in private and then ploy to see if anyone WAS going to bite and "hammer". Wouldn't that be an interesting take? All I felt was that you were extremely self conscious about the amount of votes on you.

firstly none of this is even remotely accurate, but for the sake of the point I am about to make, let's assume it is.

me being self conscious about how many votes I have on me is completely different than you being self conscious about how others perceive you. Scum have to appear that they aren't scummy, they need people to think they are town. Regardless of alignment though, anyone who is being run up for a lynch cares about the number of votes on them.

secondly - proper etiquette is to announce when you are putting a player at L-1, some people actually think that if you don't that is indiciative of scum hoping some townie will accidentially hammer you (happens all the time on this site) In addition, I am completely ok with being lynched but that doesn't mean I want to be, especially with me holding a paper.

as for the vote count being wrong this is also standard proticol, not just on this site but every site I have ever played on. If a mod makes an error, you let him know. I have never sent a mod a PM asking him to fix a vote count. This is yet another thing you would learn if you had started in a newbie game (which is obvious where you should be playing in my opinion.)


p.edit - see, adding in the word town was completely unnecessary. "You suggest that I am cautious to worry about my image" was perfectly acceptable and flowed properly in your sentence. "You suggest that I am cautious to worry about my town image" is completely un-neccessary and caused the flow of that sentence to sound off.

[njoseph]

Calling it:
Jake v. Aj:Town v. Town

[Jake from State Farm]

cool story bro

[pirate mollie]

Hmm, this is actually a good point. My reasoning for finding Breakfast scummy is actually somewhat similar though not identical (I think he is making safe posts about the mechanics to avoid taking positions/giving serious analysis).

okay but breakfast

is

taking a position wrt jake's outing the info that he has. he says that jake will do it when he is ready

if he is town

. to me, that reads that breakfast kind of knows jake's alignment hence the wking but distancing himself (that would be the "if" part) in case he gets lynched but stoking the fires against aj.

do you know what I mean by wking? curious, cos you didn't ask.

[pirate mollie]

Calling it:
Jake v. Aj:Town v. Town

called it earlier (or are you not reading my posts - scumtell!) so why don't you just repost this as "I agree with pirate mollie".

[Aj The Epic]

actions speak louder than words. I never said you actually said you want them gone, but your actions prove you do.

So, by voting for you, I, in turn, want the papers gone. Sure... Why, then, have I not worked to get rid of Maestro's in any way, shape or form?

This is complete crap. I haven't said anything about wanting the papers out of circulation. I can't even find where I've said anything remotely close to "Burn the papers" or something that would suggest my want for them to be removed. Stop lying.

actions speak louder than words. I never said you actually said you want them gone, but your actions prove you do.

But, the new development does beg one question: Why weren't you more helpful? If you neither understand any of it, nor does Maestro (as for what he's said at least), would it not be more helpful to bring to a head in front of the town, or at least ask what a certain symbol is, just off hand, to see if anyone knew?

I thought you knew how this wifom game works... anyway I answer this question at the beginning of 188. I have not said if I can read the paper or not, nor will I say if I can read it or not. This isn't something that can be brought out in the open for discusssion, because the people who can read this are not normal Bureaucrats, the people who can read the symbols have more power than a typical Bureaucrat. Bringing this out in the open for discussion helps scum not town because as soon as someone says they have the ability to read it, they immediately put a target on their head. (If you are town i don't think you really know how to play this game)

Thirdly, through two posts, you proved to be VERY self conscious of the amount of votes on you, first denoting that Robert didn't mention you were at L-1, and second telling the mod that Maestro had in fact unvoted for you. Now, while the second was an honest mistake and I'm not sure what you'd justify the first as, there really isn't (or shouldn't) be any reason to worry. In fact, you probably could've contacted the mod in private and then ploy to see if anyone WAS going to bite and "hammer". Wouldn't that be an interesting take? All I felt was that you were extremely self conscious about the amount of votes on you.

firstly none of this is even remotely accurate, but for the sake of the point I am about to make, let's assume it is.

me being self conscious about how many votes I have on me is completely different than you being self conscious about how others perceive you. Scum have to appear that they aren't scummy, they need people to think they are town. Regardless of alignment though, anyone who is being run up for a lynch cares about the number of votes on them.

secondly - proper etiquette is to announce when you are putting a player at L-1, some people actually think that if you don't that is indiciative of scum hoping some townie will accidentially hammer you (happens all the time on this site) In addition, I am completely ok with being lynched but that doesn't mean I want to be, especially with me holding a paper.

as for the vote count being wrong this is also standard proticol, not just on this site but every site I have ever played on. If a mod makes an error, you let him know. I have never sent a mod a PM asking him to fix a vote count. This is yet another thing you would learn if you had started in a newbie game (which is obvious where you should be playing in my opinion.)


p.edit - see, adding in the word town was completely unnecessary. "You suggest that I am cautious to worry about my image" was perfectly acceptable and flowed properly in your sentence. "You suggest that I am cautious to worry about my town image" is completely un-neccessary and caused the flow of that sentence to sound off.

So, for part one of this: I think that's two different things, as well. Unfortunately, the comparison I drew was between you being uncooperative as part of your early game play style and me being cautious. Your vote consciousness is a different point to these two altogether.

Secondly, to the point neither of us have played here. Yes, there are small differences, but I seem to feel that I am doing quite fine adapting. If that's what you people feel is necessary, fine. I generally play with a group that is very good and won't make any mistake whatsoever. Your offhand comment about me playing a newbie game first is slightly off... I play it solely for people to have other games to look at if they feel the need to see how I play.

To the vote counting, I send private messages to mods all the time if I feel something needs to be corrected. It's 'proper etiquette' to not publicly announce a mistake on the thread.

This is yet another thing you would learn if you had started in a newbie game (which is obvious where you should be playing in my opinion.)

Opinions are like assholes. We all have them and most of them smell. I'd prefer if you'd keep that one to yourself.

[Jake from State Farm]

So, by voting for you, I, in turn, want the papers gone. Sure... Why, then, have I not worked to get rid of Maestro's in any way, shape or form?

because you know you can't

[pirate mollie]

oh good grief can you 2 plz shut up this dumb argument so we can get on with the game.

take a look around you. the both of you. what is standing out?

[njoseph]

cool story bro

Can you tell me a story about why Robert and Shamrock don't look like a Mafia team?

[Aj The Epic]

oh good grief can you 2 plz shut up this dumb argument so we can get on with the game.

take a look around you. the both of you. what is standing out?

What stands out is the fact that other than either of us arguing, the amount of words posted in this thread would be very low. You could argue that they are hiding now, but has anyone really attempted to shift to any other topic with any other well thought out argument? Scum can hide just as well in a game where no discussion goes whatsoever.

I don't believe that Jake and I are done arguing, but if you wish to shift the topic, I will listen, respond and whatnot. I can reasonable beg to differ some other time.

To me, this would generally be on the side of a productive day one, more so than not. Day one and we've already got reasonable and substantial posts from almost everyone, and I feel that this can be attributed to actual content and not spam.

Goody, an alt-slip. Brb, checking meta for NJ/Taz.

In the meantime, pirate, I don't really think your vote is justified given the level of explanation you gave.
@Shamrock/Jake: your votes are good. I want your thoughts: AJ/Robert Scumteam possible or no?

P-Edit @Shamrock: ^ Read above.
I think the whole team is definitely in [Robert2424, Aj The Epic, Breakfast,

one other person

]

So, in the hope that we get off to another topic:

If you wish to accuse me as such, reasoning very important. First off, for Robert having posted... 3 times? That's rather hard to see how you could find any connection to me in this game. As stated before, he is one of my acquaintances from the other site I'm on. And thus, having joined a day apart, we've both just started here and are about the same amount into a new environment. This is all forces that are at work outside the game.

Plus, you calling me scum in the first place would require some reasoning. I doubt I'll get any, but I'm always willing to hear what you feel makes me scum.

[Jake from State Farm]

personally I'm done arguing. I'm not changing my vote but I am most certainly done arguing.

[njoseph]

cool story bro

Can you tell me a story about why Robert and Shamrock don't look like a Mafia team?

[Jake from State Farm]

I already said it's possible they could be scum together, but I also think AJ could be scum. :shrug: