Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Voidedmafia]

So did repeating the quote in your own words affect your opinion on sixty?

Well, I suppose it doesn't on the outset, but I'm not entirely sure if the hydra's trying to put scum motivation into it.

It kind of shows that you can definitely analyze lack of response so the idea that you can't really do anything doesn't work at all.

Huh? what're you talking about?

[Soul2277]

Remember the original argument. Sixty voted absta to see what'd happen partly. They saw little response. They got a response, but didn't analyze and asked me to draw some conclusion from it. I did. Kind of shows drawing conclusions from it are possible and for them not to do so is scummy.

~Mehdi

[Voidedmafia]

Remember the original argument. Sixty voted absta to see what'd happen partly. They saw little response. They got a response, but didn't analyze and asked me to draw some conclusion from it. I did. Kind of shows drawing conclusions from it are possible and for them not to do so is scummy.

~Mehdi

But I still like the case against Piggy, so while this may well be a good point, it doesn't really add up to changing my townread on the hydra.

[Equinox]

I'm sorry, guys. I am going to replace out, as I'm having trouble keeping up with the pace of this game and it'd be better if a replacement was sought sooner rather than later. I won't send in a formal "I'm outta here" until tomorrow, though, since I'd like a chance to finish reading up to page 12 and/or do the things I promised I'd do. If you have something you'd like to ask me specifically, ask away.

[Equinox]

Up to somewhere near the top of page 10.

From a first read-through:

Soul2277 is town. Cerulean's still town. JesseSheffield is probably town, as he came in pushing buttons from the get-go and maintained pressure. I'm torn on Sixty; on the one hand, when they're building cases, they sound off from the Tierce and Vi that I know individually, and that's a scum tell for them... when they're playing individually. I suspect they may be suffering from a certain type of hydra syndrome, but I may be able to tell better after looking at previous Sixty games to see how they handled cases and whatnot. Tierce's posts to Tammy come off as a genuine attempt to reach across the aisle, though. PiggyGal15 is probably still town, but she's also in the metagaming queue; since my read of her is pretty much based on tone, I'd like to check out how she behaves before solidifying a read either way.

Jury is pretty much out on the rest, I think. Still haven't read absta101 despite my vote being on him. I think there's more of him beyond page 9, so there's that to which to look forward, not to mention actually reading the game Mehdi2277 suggested.

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• Voidedmafia (3)
  : Thor665 absta101 JesseSheffield
  
• Sixty (2)
  : Cerulean Soul2277
  
• absta101 (2)
  : Equinox Voidedmafia
  
• PiggyGal15 (1)
  : N
  
• JesseSheffield (1)
  : PiggyGal15
  
• Soul2277 (1)
  : Sixty
  
• Not voting:
  (
  nobody
  )

Deadline: Sun 25 Nov, 00:05 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-11-25 00:05:00)

)

With 10 alive it is 6 to lynch.

[Sixty]

Multiple people mention him as scummy but not enough to swap over and only really do so when piggy is out. Conclusion ->

Trusted more then piggy,

but at the same time the general paranoia is a weak town tell considering I'd think someone would defend him more earlier if he was scum.

Maybe it's that this puppyhalf hasn't played Mafia in the last five minutes, but in which universe is this true?

This is both a stretch to consider true and useless if true.

There's a difference between expecting this hound to analyze our own gambit and expecting us to spin straw into gold.

-----

And how exactly is "interesting" supposed to be taken? Just looking at it on the surface makes me think it implies that 263 is the only post you've actually cared to look atin detail.

Hyperbolic, but essentially. This puppyhalf is playing on a time budget and has no will or interest to sift through the quote stripes and walls of hate.

To answer your question, "interesting" means much more likely to be Town, particularly if he delivers. It comes with a case that will be a waste of everyone's time at best, but see previous post etc.

-----

I suspect they may be suffering from a certain type of hydra syndrome

Woof.

[N]

This is just a quick post, but I just want to check from anyone who's more experienced with Mehdi's meta than myself: does he always ask this many (seemingly) pointless questions? I've only played one game with him, and he was scum and didn't (micro 4) - but he also was a replacement, so I don't know how reliable that is. I've read (or at least skimmed if the mechanica/flavour looked interesting) other games of his where he was town and noticed a bit more of this endless questioning he's doing here.
(What I'm trying to say is I think Mehdi's endless questioning is a towntell for him, but I'm not confident on my meta-check.)

Also, where did the Piggy wagon go? Is it just that the grass is greener on other wagons?

[JesseSheffield]

Meh. I get short and sarcastic when people seem to start asking stupid questions. Two points are things he could find if he went back to where they originated from as they're fairly clear on what I'm talking about. The others are mainly him asking stupid/silly questions like he's acting like he doesn't understand what I'm saying or is intentionally misreading what I'm saying. Now, maybe my sarcasm has gotten in the way of actual answers, but if you can't figure out my points then please say so.

To me its not a matter of how you’re delivering your message its that I think you’re carrying on arguments that aren’t necessary. And I think you’re doing it to be busy and attack a weaker player instead of exploring other avenues in the game. I think what you’re doing is anti-town.

Also, where did the Piggy wagon go? Is it just that the grass is greener on other wagons?

I’m getting a town read on Piggy. I would not be willing to support that wagon.

[Voidedmafia]

To me its not a matter of how you’re delivering your message its that I think you’re carrying on arguments that aren’t necessary. And I think you’re doing it to be busy and attack a weaker player instead of exploring other avenues in the game. I think what you’re doing is anti-town.

Not-so-subtle insinuation to reread the thread and get solid reads on Thor, Cerulean, and Sixty. I get it, I get it <_<.

Also, where did the Piggy wagon go? Is it just that the grass is greener on other wagons?

I’m getting a town read on Piggy. I would not be willing to support that wagon.

(Pssst, I didn't say this.)

Multiple people mention him as scummy but not enough to swap over and only really do so when piggy is out. Conclusion ->

Trusted more then piggy,

but at the same time the general paranoia is a weak town tell considering I'd think someone would defend him more earlier if he was scum.

There's a difference between expecting this hound to analyze our own gambit and expecting us to spin straw into gold.

Is it entirely unreasonable to expect an analysis of any reactions or the lack of reactions, though?

To answer your question, "interesting" means much more likely to be Town, particularly if he delivers. It comes with a case that will be a waste of everyone's time at best, but see previous post etc.

Is Empire the kind of person who usually doesn't fail to deliver with these things?

Somewhat like Equi's 279, but a solid read is pending on whether or not she stays and finishes her reread or if she goes through with replacement.

[Soul2277]

;_; twelve pages
mehdi did you change the background to Sepia?

I'm going to alt slip a lot more now >_>

[Soul2277]

^ OS
~ OS

[Soul2277]

be reading the thread over the day

[Sixty]

We need to etc.

Very much so. I'm going to take a short nap and then we'll see if we can go through the thread together. I have the impression that our reads aren't meshing, and in particular,

I

need to consolidate Townreads.

(Not so) Quick question: Empire, you've presented evidence of meta research in a Town game of yours. Have you ever done said research as scum? The only scum game I see of yours in MS is as Black Mask, and during the game, you claimed you wanted to do some research and couldn't do it due to the alted game. I believe you play in Westeros/elsewhere, correct? (Hydraing with Regfan and Tammy seems to point in this direction.) Westeros has alted games, but people can probably still figure out identities. Do you perform meta research there as Town and/or scum?

[Cerulean]

Saying and doing are very different things. I'm extremely lazy as mafia (as the Black Mask game should show you if you've read it). The fact that I've earned "creepy stalker points" by reading and linking you to one of your posts from one of your recent scum games that suggest you are constructing your reads similarly is something that would never, ever, ever come from me as scum (PS: at the risk of tipping my hand early, Tierce's case against PiggyGal is also reminding me of her play in Abarat 2 and Doctor Who.

Also, I'm not from Westeros. I'm from EM (which is where I know Regfan and everyone from Mini 1373). MS is my first experience with forum mafia and I joined fairly recently, which is why I have so few completed games. Meta was extremely important to me over there, too, but unfortunately, more difficult to do since the games move faster on EM and people cannot access other past games during a game.

~Empire.

[JesseSheffield]

[quote="In I'm extremely lazy as mafia (as the Black Mask game should show you if you've read it). The fact that I've earned "creepy stalker points" by reading and linking you to one of your posts from one of your recent scum games that suggest you are constructing your reads similarly is something that would never, ever, ever come from me as scum (PS: at the risk of tipping my hand early, Tierce's case against PiggyGal is also reminding me of her play in Abarat 2 and Doctor Who.[/quote]

What I'm trying to reconcile here is if you're so aware of your meta, as most skilled MS players are, what's to stop you from actively changing it here for the sake of a win? I mean stating it here would mean the next time any of us play you elsewhere and you exhibit that behavior we've theoretically caught you as scum.

[JesseSheffield]

Oh Jesus. #quotefail

[Cerulean]

Jesse, I get where you're coming from and I hear that argument all the time when I discuss theory with others but two things:

1) You're assuming that I am a skilled player (I'm not).
2) It's not as easy as you think. In my experience, people either conform to the set of characteristics/playstyle that defines their meta or will awkwardly try to change it in a way that come across as forced or unnatural.

~Empire.

[JesseSheffield]

Well I wouldn't bring it up if for example I knew your play and was like "okay, they're actively playing to their town/scum meta". To me, it just looks fishy when someone says "look, this is my meta when I play as scum and I'm not acting to that meta". Its just like well... other than the obvious reason than try to convince someone you're not scum I don't know if its something a town player would bring up, at least not on Day 1 when you don't have anyone on your wagon (and the one person who's interested in a wagon on you is not garnering any support) and you really haven't built too much of an in-game resume to support that claim. I don't necessarily consider that a pro-town thing to do.

[Soul2277]

Sixty you wanted a conclusion. That's one. Others again exist. Point is you can analyze lack of reactions fine. It's honestly more of a scum tell similar to early lack of commentary on you without forcing it in you're direction, but overall read still makes him town.

~Mehdi

[PiggyGal15]

UNVOTE:
That... was a lot of useless bickering... half of everyone's arguments aren't even scum hunting they're just... useless... (at least imo)

however, when I do actually get around to reading wall posts, especially wall posts which reply to wall posts which are replies to wall posts which answer questions from wall posts it does give me some newly found reads.

Basically: VOTE: absta
I may be persuaded to vote Sixty, but I really don't think Voided is scum, unless he's just that good that he can make his posts feel genuine and keep the exact same tone that they do when he's town sooooo... Voided is town.

[JesseSheffield]

I really don't think Voided is scum, unless he's just that good that he can make his posts feel genuine and keep the exact same tone that they do when he's town sooooo... Voided is town.

I don't understand. Are you saying you have Voided town meta... but not scum meta... and you're just judging him on his town meta?

[Soul2277]

And piggy can you be more specific as well? I know voided walls as both alignments so a bit more detail on what in his walls leans town.

~Mehdi

[Thor665]

2) It's not as easy as you think. In my experience, people either conform to the set of characteristics/playstyle that defines their meta or will awkwardly try to change it in a way that come across as forced or unnatural.

I think it's actually silly easy to change or break meta. The challenge comes in keeping enough sane meta to enable you to prove you're town, and enough meta you can bust at appropriate moments for lulzworthy wins.

...not that I...plot this...ever...

In other news - Ceru is town anyway, meta be damned, so...?

You have a read on Voided? I wouldn't mind getting another vote on Voided.

[JesseSheffield]

In other news - Ceru is town anyway, meta be damned, so...?

Other than Cerulean being "obv. town", which as you know is always such a... convincing... rationale, I'd love to see where you explained some rational reasons as to why Cerulean is town. And with all meta talk aside please. Its getting pretty old.