Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[greygnarl]

GreyICE was weird. His weirdness was townie or scummy though.

[callforjudgement]

Well, IIRC GreyICE isn't usually a VI. So if he's being weird rather than contributing that's a scumtell in its own right.

[greygnarl]

I don't know GreyICE's meta. He could be scum but Peregrine or Phillammon seem more likely.

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.20

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Shamrock (6): Mehdi2277, callforjudgement, Tammy, VoidedMafia, Tazaro, Phillammon
Phillammon (2): Seanald, greygnarl
PeregrineV (2): SlumberPartyBois, Nero Cain
callforjudgement (1): Salamence20
Mehdi2277 (1): PeregrineV

Not Voting (5): Shamrock, Pitty, Guille2015, StefanB, BBmolla

Deadline is November 20th, at 11:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2012-11-20 23:00:00)

[PeregrineV]

Could we alternatively have it in the opposite direction, gnarl. What is it over the last few pages that made me suddenly scum?

yeah, and all my fans can go ahead and answer this, since nobody squeaked day1 about me being scum, for me to "suddenly" appear that way seems like you are more jumping on a wagon than bothering to scumhunt.

[PeregrineV]

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Let me know if you want to explain it to you.

In short:

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to

Stephan

Seanald to

Gentlemen Bastard

Guille to

SlumberPartyBois

Philammon to

Salamence

Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:

Eidolin

BBmolla

Tazaro
Mehdi

The bolded are pretty strong town reads based on day1 play and what happened. Italics are professed non-Entrepreneurs. Based on Marketplace I- 2 scumteams of 2 + 1 3rd party in a 13 player game, Expecting 3-3-1 scum and 13 town this game isn't too farfetched. That means like 6 scum in here. Let's look at the non-bolded players.

Pitty- I think is scum.
Seanald-Got cop. 1 shot left. Probably going to be lynched to verify cop results. Scum knows this so most likely wouldn't buy cop. Plus MoI opening vote on him.
Guille- apparently cleared by Seanald using cop
Phil- kind of scummy, but mostly for early game posts
Callforjudge-I had Elmo as null, Callfor currently null leaning town for detailing funds.
Voided- Really uncertain, but let's say town for the sake of arguement because of doc crap.
Shamrock-nothing on him or GreyIce

So let's say Phil/Pitty are sum, that leaves 4 more.

Tammy- getting her town vibe early . I did state a need to re-read some of her meta, and I have yet to do it, but let's say null.
Greygarl-I thought was fairly town early game, but often find myself not thinking that, or in the minority on this read. Call it null for argument sake.
Tazaro-claimed Transferred to Medhi. Why would scum do that if they can stick to "I was supposed to keep it-look at the plan!"
Medhi-Didn't like some early posts, but others looked worse. Called MoI town even after scumslip, calls Pitty town after detailing her knowledge of the scum PM, changes the final plan so that Medhi_Tazaro transfer doesn't occur, neighbored the nightkill, transferred money to the nightkill, didn't follow the plan.

So, all 4 of these scum?
Probably not. That means other reads are off somewhere.

So, I start with the scummiest. Based on the above, who would that be?

@pere

I'm not sure why you're asking me specifically for my thoughts on your Post 1713

If you're town it looks like you're having as difficult a time with clear reads as I am. I don't have a town read on Pitty either, though from what I understand piggy likes scum better, but her play here doesn't feel like her play in the game we just finished in which she was town. And I don't think mala has really posted, and although I know her to be a bit of a lurker from time to time when she replaced into ladies night in the last night, she put in great effort and helped town win...that might have been because she was a VIG though. I'll reserve judgment until tomorrow. They're supposed to have transferred a good amount to Stefan last night and if they did, they're more likely to be town.

Seanald - I don't know what to do about seanald, but if guille is clear, I'm really disappointed in his play. He, if seanald is town, is confirmed town so should actually be putting in some effort and I'm not remembering anything from him which is worrisome.

Why so you have so many nulls? And, at the risk of being really self-absorbed, why are you null on me pending meta research? We've played several times, you've seen me as town and as scum, and you've never had to make meta research before being able to form some kind of opinion on me. The fact that you're leaving me in null feels like you're stalling to give an opinion.

Because in other games, you spoke often and with content, even if you sometimes get defensive. In my only scumgame with you, you were similar but not (Team Mafia), but I attributed it to the fact each of us was on a team more than being scummy. But, I think if you post more that I can spot that difference. And if you are town, then I can call you out to scumhunt more, like in the post above.

My problem with Pitty the hyrda is that you expect posting to be at the minimum = that of one person, if not more. So for the number of posts plus my day1 reasons, I have her/him/it hard leaning scum.
Slumber is starting in that vein also. 6000 posts day1 all up into it, and now three posts all day.

And it's not always about the null. It's the fact that if I have too many townreads, then some of them must be wrong. But callfor is semi-redeeming the Elmo slot, and if guille knows he's town and has been cleared by town, then yes, his posting is also massively delinquent.

[PeregrineV]

@Phil- do we have any town-Phil games together?

Vote: Shamrock

I had Grey as scummy (posts) to null (meta), but Shamrock is doing nothing, and he's not even a hydra.

[Tazaro]

Hopefully nobody who would be voting for Shamrock is held back only by the "gambler's fallacy" by virtue of GreyICE's being a villain in the first Marketplace Mafia game]

[Tazaro]

*would otherwise be* sounds better.

[StefanB]

Hm, Shamrock is really not here.
Since we need a lynch

Vote: Shamrock

L-1
Having a mild metaread is not enough and nothink else is getting of.

Tazaro

, I got a fake feel about his last posts.

What was that about no frezzing a previous hammerer, can you tell me why?
I mean what was the point?
And why do you think that a lot of people are failing statistic (every newbie should learn that alligment in other games is null, so huh

[callforjudgement]

In Case Of Selfhammer, the latest version of the plan:

Player	Buying	Receiving Money From
Greygnarl	Night-kill	N/A
Tammy	Neighborizer	Phil
the bois	Bulletproof	Seanald
Stephan	Advertise Watcher (but not by enough to beat Cop)	callforjudgement
Mehdi	Hitman	Pitty
Sala	Accountant	PV
Voided	Vote Nullifier	Peregrine
Nero Cain	Vote Freezer	N/A

[callforjudgement]

(Note: we can still continue debating this, etc., if anyone has any improvements; just this is what we're doing if the day ends unexpectedly.)

[Tazaro]

3) failing
2) point
1) no freezing vote of a hammerer

3) It is tempting to use the failing "logic" that is the"gambler's fallacy"--might as well discourage it if anybody thinks Shamrock is suspicious otherwise
2) The point that addresses "why" is: 1) I was thinking that if someone hammers one time, then perhaps it gives us information if his/her vote isn't frozen and he/she hammers some more. Wouldn't you want to be aware of the fact that there is a repeat-hammerer if a person would turn out to be one?

[Tazaro]

The three things relate to three question statements in StefanB's previous post;

[greygnarl]

Wait, is Stefan advertising to make sure Peregrine isn't bullshitting? Not sure what the point of this is.

[StefanB]

Oh, get's it.
Tazaro: The votefrezer only works like this:
a person votes x
freezer
votes x for the rest of the day.
Doesn't work for more than a day.
And we will be informed when a unvote doesn't work. (Latest by the votecount, should look again if the freeze is anouced in tread)
(This is how I think a votefreezer works)

All

Should I advertise watcher or oracle, what do we need more? Feedback welcome.

Grey: I think I should be advertising, so there is advertising, I don't have the point myself (and to get Nero in the game)

[callforjudgement]

@greygnarl: It's mostly to more easily win an advertising war on Night 3, if that's necessary. (Advertising the same thing twice in a row would be a waste.) Checking on Peregrine is just a side effect.

[greygnarl]

I'd say Oracle. That's more important. Watcher isn't the best thing in the world. I'm tempted to hammer just so Slumber doesn't get back and say something. He really aggravates me. Anyway, Shamrock is a decent chance of scum, but apparently Phil helping a bit makes him town, same for Pere I guess.

[callforjudgement]

Watcher is normally considered the most powerful Normal pro-town role available. If you can make a good guess at who dies overnight, you can watch them, and learn who killed them, = one scum caught. I think we can more easily live without Oracle; the main issue is that it makes planning the breaking strategy harder because you have to talk in generalities ("first protective role in alphabetical order"), etc., and Magua could throw curveballs at us.

[Tazaro]

Oracle. Let's stay the course of getting info on what can be purchased.

[StefanB]

Okay, if I don't hear from anone else except Mehdi or Callforjudgement I will advertise Oracle.
I don't consider watcher week, but you realise, that if scum lose the nk it is not so usful.
And Oracle is damm usful.
P-Edit: 3 votes oracle and I want to advertise Oracle. (Sorry, that is my personal feeling)

[callforjudgement]

I'm not massively opposed to Oracle for the advertisement, btw; just explaining my side of the case.

[Voidedmafia]

Could we alternatively have it in the opposite direction, gnarl. What is it over the last few pages that made me suddenly scum?

yeah, and all my fans can go ahead and answer this, since nobody squeaked day1 about me being scum, for me to "suddenly" appear that way seems like you are more jumping on a wagon than bothering to scumhunt.

Well, there is the problem of your attack on Mehdi that was kinda out of nowhere and really didn't go anywhere at all, so I wouldn't call it "suddenly."

Well, IIRC GreyICE isn't usually a VI. So if he's being weird rather than contributing that's a scumtell in its own right.

THat is a fair point. Even so, I still found some of his spec to be townish even if I didn't really like his attitude toward BB (I know I wasn't too keen either, but I wasn't outright going "LIAR LIAR LIAR QUIT LYING!")

I'd prefer watcher over Oracle, to be honest. I know it's good to be aware of what we're getting, but as CFJ said its a pretty powerful PR in town's hands.

Also, remind me how much is advertised on Cop again?

[Tazaro]

What do I do with my money?

[Tazaro]

*takes page's last post*