Mini 1390: Game Over

[nhammen]

Vote Count 1.12

TheTrollie(5): Idiotking, Deltabacon, Cheery Dog, Abaddon, absta101
absta101(4): _Sherlock_, Tommy, kwll, TheTrollie
kwll(2): Slandaar, JacobSavage
Kinetic(1): toxictaipan

not voting (1): Kinetic

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2012-11-17 17:30:00)

[Idiotking]

FOS JacobSavage

Weak. Just weak. It's too hard to make a decision, so you run away with your tail between your legs and settle for a lynch that is very unlikely at the moment.

[TheTrollie]

Lol. Look how fast the waggon on me grew and look how everyone tries to make a case. This is just bad, i'm only going to respond to Sherlock for now. Fuck Trollie's wall.

SCUM CAUGHT

[absta101]

@Sherlock

He first says as a response to my question that he read through Radelle's ISO, and she's town... great. That's really not what I was going for with the question.

I wanted some specific content from him, and a possible new take on/connection to Radelle. He's apparently read through Radelle's ISO, but nothing seems to be comment-worthy as to why Radelle is town. However, he does have the ability to comment on details of one specific post by Abaddon. It doesn't add up that he's read Radelle's whole ISO, yet only uses one post as evidence for Abaddon being scum. Of course, this could be a play style issue, but the way this post was made seemed methodical, and it was like absta was intentionally not being transparent about his read of Radelle.

Okay, wtf is all this shit? HOW IS ANY OF THIS SCUMMY?
Considering I explained my Radelle read later after someone specifically asked me to, why even bring this up?

Also, I wasn't responding to you. How the fuck could you get that wrong? This makes your whole act so obvious, but i'll play along.
Also, show us all when YOU asked me this.

These two comments just support the connection for me between absta and Radelle. For those who suspect Radelle, here's a good reason to suspect absta as a partner. His reasoning for Radelle-town really makes no sense, as Radelle really didn't have to put in much "effort" to appear to be getting Parama to contribute.

Okay, very weak. Try looking for associative tells after a scum flip.

It also contradicts this gem:

No it doesn't.
Note: Whoever said Sherlock's case was even remotely good gets +scum points.

This never happened. It was even the prime topic of discussion at that point for him, until after Radelle actually posts. Absta never mentions Radelle again after Radelle's next post.

I gave Trollie an answer just like I promissed. Why are you lying?

Besides the fact that absta also doesn't give any actual reasoning for this, the implied reasoning is weaker than what he had originally voted Abaddon for.

I'll let you off for this one.
If I vote someone and follow up with questions, you should assume that vote was for pressure.

This one's obvious. He pointed out what he thought was a soft claim. Completely defeats the purpose of the advice, "Don't do this again..." There is no pro-town motivation to point out a soft claim.

Is there a Pro-scum motivation? Absta-scum would point this "soft-claim" out in the scum QT if he had to. Why would he need to point it out here?

Worst case i've seen in awhile. This makes you look very scummy.

absta's reaction to kwll's first big post is opportunism at its finest.
It's an easy thing to suspect, and I definitely could see town suspecting kwll for the post

Good to know.

This doesn't add up. He's saying he expected the upcoming question of why. Why the hell did he not explain his read beforehand? That's kinda the logical thing to do in that situation.

This is your only decent point.
I did the same when answering Slandaar's question in post #200. This should be enough to suggest it's playstyle other than alignment.

[absta101]

maybe sherlock is overusing meta but his thoughts on absta I think are pretty on. I really didnt like the way absta is using logic for my lynch...that does strike me as very much as scum either getting an easy lynch today or setting it up for day 2. Since I have posted as having these thoughts I am going to put my vote where my mouth is.

vote absta

Yeah. This is really bad and fake. I hope more people support the waggon on him.
I'm staying on Trollie's waggon for obvious reasons.

[absta101]

I did have a town read on Delta

Really? But I thought saying that was a mistake, and that actually you had a null read.

Okay this was probably my fault for being to cryptic with it.

Go to Post 420.
The first line is my initial read. After I completed the first line I went back and rechecked his ISO to make sure my read was accurate. It turned out I missed a VC(s') and was wrong about Delta's play, thus I removed my town read.
I Hope this clears up the misunderstanding.

[absta101]

Hence the "did have a town read".

[_Sherlock_]

No time to respond right now, but long story short, most of your defense is "you're lying!" without an explanation of the lie, calling my attacks "weak" and discounting them, and calling me scummy for making a case on you that you (obviously) don't agree with.

[absta101]

Looking forward to a proper defence from you.

[TheTrollie]

I'm all ears if u'd like to engage in a damn thing I've said

[absta101]

I'll read yours after I deal with Sherlock.

For now I suggest you vote Kwll.

[_Sherlock_]

Looking forward to a proper defence from you.

Hardy har har.

You should respond to Trollie while I do stuff and make the post. It'll take awhile.

[TheTrollie]

you suggest

I

vote kwll!?!?!?!?

omg lynch this guy. guaranteed scum

[Tommy]

Giving vote suggestions to your lynch candidate is really odd. Did you forget TheTrollie is supposed to be scum according to your position?

[kwll]

albsta is getting scummy and scummy by the post. This new one is making you look like Scum avoiding a lynch. You are also still have a vote on Trollie but yet telling him to vote on me. Scum perhaps trying to get one of the easy targets for his team?

[TheTrollie]

For those voting me:
if CD is town, what is the ScumTrollie story?

[Cheery Dog]

I believe I've already stated my reasons somewhere.

and the reason why I'm voting you over Abaddon doing the same thing is that you continued to do it over multiple posts. I also happen to like how Abaddon defended himself from doing it. Whereas you linked to a game of mine where I was called town during day 1 for playing the way I do (which ended up becoming scummy day 3), and therefore I don't see how my play that game actually relates to my play this game since I will react differently to being called scummy rather that being called town.

[TheTrollie]

but you were called scummy for similar things in the first place.

MOREOVER, i dont give a fuck whether they CALLED you scummy. I am saying you were just as derpy in that game as you are here, so your derpyness is not a scum tell its just something you do. JESUS CRIST..

AND WAIT.

AGAIN: WHY DOES SCUM TROLLIE DEFEND YOU CD? IF YOU ARE TOWN WHY DOES SCUM TROLLIE

PREVENT YOUR LYNCH

[TheTrollie]

This one's obvious. He pointed out what he thought was a soft claim. Completely defeats the purpose of the advice, "Don't do this again..." There is no pro-town motivation to point out a soft claim.
Is there a Pro-scum motivation? Absta-scum would point this "soft-claim" out in the scum QT if he had to. Why would he need to point it out here?

HOLY SHIT!!! idk how I missed this slip earlier. ABSTA SLIPS THAT HE KNOWS THERE IS DAYTALK.

more votes. go go go. Absta is 100% scum!

[Cheery Dog]

I'll just fetch my opinion from my own ISO.

I'm also confused why you're saying you didn't look at my scum meta because you didn't have to - yet you looked at my town meta, when you didn't have to do that either.
and the fact if you looked at my wiki, or all my games, you'll see that I don't actually have any scum meta..

Looks like you wanted to have me as a town read when I flipped town and looked at my last game to find reasons for me to be town, and now that you've been pressured you decided to rid yourself of calling me town by saying you're defending me only because the case against me is crap.

VOTE: thetrollie

When people defend me more than I've actually defended myself, it comes across as suspicious as if they want to keep me alive until LYLO and pull a switch on.

There we go, while I'm not entirely confident in the second quoted reason (since now I have a game ended where a town member was defending me more than I defended myself. I still wanted to call him scum even after he became confirmed town) It also doesn't actually help my reasoning when I've known he was town since before this game started, but at least he claimed to have a town-read on me.

The scum trollie would be trying (weakly) to prevent my lynch to get towncred for when I flipped town.

[TheTrollie]

Ok, let me get this straight. You are saying that I got into a 2 page long, heated argument with Delta (while there was only ONE, ONE, ONE ONLY ONE, vote on you) in order to build town cred?

Come on CD. Really think about that. Go through my ISO and tell me that I look like someone hoping to get town cred expecting six more people to magically start voting you. If i was trying to gain town cred, I would have waited for you to have a wagon on you, and i would have just listed you as a fucking town read instead of getting in a huge argument about how stupid the arguments against you were.

On the other hand, Absta is vote hopping, deflecting all attacks against him, telling me, A SCUM READ OF HIS, that i should vote kwll, and he FLAT OUT SLIPS that he knows there is daytalk.

which case is better?

[Cheery Dog]

I thought there had been more people voting me than that.
Point taken.

[TheTrollie]

ok, so now whats the case against me?

[Idiotking]

Ok guys, we are less than 17 hours away from the deadline, unless the mod changes it. If we wind up no-lynching then I am going after everyone not on one of the major wagons. I hate to say it, but WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR ARGUMENTS.

Whenever we get to L-1, wait to hammer until the mod's made a decision about extending it, and if he doesn't extend it, we need to be ready to go.

[_Sherlock_]

@Mod: V/LA from Sunday until next Sunday.

I know it's the worst timing, but I'm not going to have time to make a

good

case for why Trollie is town. I can sum it up. Most of it is stuff that involves his motivations for posting, as a lot of his posts really don't make sense from a "I'm trying to trick the town into thinking I'm town" thought process. He's an experienced player; as scum, he would be putting more of an effort in to make himself look town. There's also the fact that I really don't like his wagon.

---

Okay, wtf is all this shit? HOW IS ANY OF THIS SCUMMY?

Oh, I can bold the half of that paragraph that specifically calls you out for scummy play, which you totally ignored.

He first says as a response to my question that he read through Radelle's ISO, and she's town... great. That's really not what I was going for with the question. I wanted some specific content from him, and a possible new take on/connection to Radelle. He's apparently read through Radelle's ISO, but nothing seems to be comment-worthy as to

why

Radelle is town. However, he does have the ability to comment on details of one specific post by Abaddon.

It doesn't add up that he's read Radelle's whole ISO, yet only uses one post as evidence for Abaddon being scum.

Of course, this could be a play style issue, but

the way this post was made seemed methodical, and it was like absta was intentionally not being transparent about his read of Radelle

. The actual attack on Abaddon here makes no sense to me as well.

He's accusing Abaddon's post of being "fake bs," but nothing in his accusation seems to imply that Abaddon is anything but wrong in his opinion of scumhunting.

---

Also, I wasn't responding to you. How the fuck could you get that wrong? This makes your whole act so obvious, but i'll play along.
Also, show us all when YOU asked me this.

Sorry, I mixed myself up with Slandaar there. Y'know, they both start with an "S"... yeah.

However, explain how this could possibly make my "act" so "obvious." Are you trying that "The best defense is a good offense" thing? It doesn't work that way.

---

Okay, very weak. Try looking for associative tells after a scum flip.

Why? On policy? It seems to be working just fine right now. It's also obviously not the main part of my case, but just a supporting piece.

---

It also contradicts this gem:

No it doesn't.
Note: Whoever said Sherlock's case was even remotely good gets +scum points.

Yes it does. You're using very simple WIFOM to justify a townread on Radelle, but you had a problem earlier when I used what you called very simple WIFOM to justify a townread.

Your note gave me a chuckle.

---

I gave Trollie an answer just like I promissed. Why are you lying?

No, you never answered toxic's question in Post #227. You never mentioned Radelle at all after saying you would respond to it later. Try to prove otherwise.

---

Besides the fact that absta also doesn't give any actual reasoning for this, the implied reasoning is weaker than what he had originally voted Abaddon for.

I'll let you off for this one.
If I vote someone and follow up with questions, you should assume that vote was for pressure.

Except you don't follow up your "pressure" with any result on the read it gave you. So essentially, the vote is useless. Am I just supposed to take your word on the answers to your questions giving you reads that you won't ever reveal?

---

This one's obvious. He pointed out what he thought was a soft claim. Completely defeats the purpose of the advice, "Don't do this again..." There is no pro-town motivation to point out a soft claim.

Is there a Pro-scum motivation? Absta-scum would point this "soft-claim" out in the scum QT if he had to. Why would he need to point it out here?

Worst case i've seen in awhile. This makes you look very scummy.

Does it matter if there's an apparent pro-scum motivation? If there's no town thought process in what you're doing, the obvious conclusion to come to is that you aren't town.

[insert comment about how terrible your defense is and how scummy it makes you]

By the way, I disagree with Trollie's suggestion that absta scumslipped here, but I'll let absta defend himself on that.

---

absta's reaction to kwll's first big post is opportunism at its finest.
It's an easy thing to suspect, and I definitely could see town suspecting kwll for the post

Good to know.

Oh, I think you missed the part where I called the way you did it scummy instead of the act itself. Y'know, the rest of the paragraph?

Let me try that:

Sherlock's case was even remotely good

---

This doesn't add up. He's saying he expected the upcoming question of why. Why the hell did he not explain his read beforehand? That's kinda the logical thing to do in that situation.

This is your only decent point.
I did the same when answering Slandaar's question in post #200. This should be enough to suggest it's playstyle other than alignment.

lolnope. You did the same scummy thing elsewhere in the same game where I think you're scum. It changes absolutely nothing. But thank you for admitting that the thing you did actually is scummy.

---

I cut out the parts that you already responded to, and I'm still left with this that you completely ignored:

---

He's apparently read through Radelle's ISO, but nothing seems to be comment-worthy as to

why

Radelle is town. However, he does have the ability to comment on details of one specific post by Abaddon. It doesn't add up that he's read Radelle's whole ISO, yet only uses one post as evidence for Abaddon being scum. Of course, this could be a play style issue, but the way this post was made seemed methodical, and it was like absta was intentionally not being transparent about his read of Radelle. The actual attack on Abaddon here makes no sense to me as well. He's accusing Abaddon's post of being "fake bs," but nothing in his accusation seems to imply that Abaddon is anything but wrong in his opinion of scumhunting.

[...]

---

absta's reaction to kwll's first big post is opportunism at its finest. No, there's no consideration that kwll could be new and not meet expectations. No, there's no consideration of meta to see if kwll just usually plays like that. kwll has to be scum for the post. [...] the way abstaresponded was more of a, "That post was bad. Therefore, I would lynch you." That is scum logic not translated into town words.

---

Of course, there's the series of unexplained votes between kwll and Trollie. That's already been gone over. I especially don't like the one where he uses a self-vote to transition his vote from kwll to Trollie.

[...]

---

There's also the WIFOM of "If I were scum..."

---

In general, absta hasn't really made any fresh content without eventually following it up with a vote or being asked to explain something. This makes his play look methodical and planned-out.

---

Idiot, would you consider switching to absta today?

Please?