Mini 1390: Game Over

[Idiotking]

Sherlock, that Trollie argument doesn't cut it at all. Going just by his join date and blank wiki, it doesn't look like he's experienced, and inexperienced scum would do the exact sort of Cheery buddying defense thing that he's done (forgive me if Trollie said he was an alt somewhere). If his buddy was getting pressured on D1 it makes sense for inexperienced scum to try and save said buddy, because they wouldn't necessarily know to just let the guy die and look townie by bussing. You also imply that scum try to look town more than townies do. That's not necessarily true. Smart scum know that if they look TOO town then when they never get nightkilled it'll look suspicious. Regardless of theory discussion, your defense of Trollie relies entirely on assumptions that contradict our evidence in the actual thread. I don't like assumptions unless there's good evidence for them, and just like Trollie's meta defense of Cheery,

there is no good evidence for your assumptions

.

And as I said before, I'd be fine with an absta lynch, but I'd prefer a Trollie one. Since Trollie's is the largest at the moment that's where I'm staying. I'm totally OK with both of the major wagons, though.

[Idiotking]

I should point out that my line about smart scum trying not to look too town was not meant to imply that I think Trollie is smart. It was just part of the theory discussion.

[TheTrollie]

Sherlock, that Trollie argument doesn't cut it at all. Going just by his join date and blank wiki, it doesn't look like he's experienced, and inexperienced scum would do the exact sort of Cheery buddying defense thing that he's done (forgive me if Trollie said he was an alt somewhere)

I am undefeated as scum thus far on this forum biatch

[TheTrollie]

If his buddy was getting pressured on D1 it makes sense for inexperienced scum to try and save said buddy, because they wouldn't necessarily know to just let the guy die and look townie by bussing.

THIS ASSUMES THAT CD IS SCUM. WILL YOU OPEN YOUR EYES AND READ WHY a TOWN-CD makes your case on me non-sense. WHICH MEANS YOU MUST FIND CD TO BE SCUM

prior

TO FINDING ME SCUM

[Idiotking]

How many games have you played?

Also, drop the attitude. You are not God.

[TheTrollie]

probably 15-20.

I'll keep this attitude up until you decide to be smart enough to join the right wagon.

[Idiotking]

Then I'll switch my argument from inexperience to just being bad at the game. Still applicable, and given your arrogance, probable.

[TheTrollie]

im not aarogant, im confident in my reads

remind me again why im scum if cd is town? how many times should i ask this before i get my answer?

[Idiotking]

CHEERY IS NOT NECESSARILY TOWN. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE BASING YOUR ARGUMENTS ON UNSUBSTANTIATED ASSUMPTIONS.

You are essentially using Cheery as a shield to protect yourself. I.E. we have to go through Cheery to get to you. That's complete crap. I can come up with a perfectly good reason why you would be scum anyway, even if Cheery is town. As scum, if Cheery was being pressured, you might go along with the town in the hopes of scoring a mislynch. However, you would also want to distance yourself from town lynches. Part of the problem with your relationship to Cheery is just the fact that it was so wishy-washy. You said you had a scumread of Cheery, but kept saying that you couldn't come up with scum motivation for it. You were simultaneously pushing for a Cheery wagon and distancing from it.

Regardless of Cheery's alignment, this looks scummy as high hell.

You should not be allowed to get away with using another player as a shield to defend yourself.

[Idiotking]

Once again for clarification: I'm not assuming that the above argument about you trying to distance from Cheery-town is true. I'm saying that since it's a possibility, you must not pretend that Cheery-scum is a requirement for the case against you to be valid.

[kwll]

This one's obvious. He pointed out what he thought was a soft claim. Completely defeats the purpose of the advice, "Don't do this again..." There is no pro-town motivation to point out a soft claim.
Is there a Pro-scum motivation? Absta-scum would point this "soft-claim" out in the scum QT if he had to. Why would he need to point it out here?

HOLY SHIT!!! idk how I missed this slip earlier. ABSTA SLIPS THAT HE KNOWS THERE IS DAYTALK.

more votes. go go go. Absta is 100% scum!

Trollie I believe You have taken this quote totally out of context.
Absta was replying to Sherlocks post and was defending what he had said.

Sherlock
This one's obvious. He pointed out what he thought was a soft claim. Completely defeats the purpose of the advice, "Don't do this again..." There is no pro-town motivation to point out a soft claim.

absta
Is there a Pro-scum motivation? Absta-scum would point this "soft-claim" out in the scum QT if he had to. Why would he need to point it out here?

I believe he was saying if was actually scum he wouldn't have said anything at all in the thread but would of pointed it out to his buddies in the night talk. I do not see a "Day slip". Now why would you say this at all? Is this a way to bread crumb that you are town? Or were you hoping this would be noticed and you could use it to get yourself out of hot water in case you faced a lynch?

Trollie I would like to hear your reasoning on how you calling this a scum read. I am leaning more on scum on you for this very apparent out of context quote.

Absta, that reply to sherlock can be taken many ways, which also strikes me as a scummy. Looks more like a vague "able to make it read what I want" reply. In other words I view as a possible scum bolt hole.

P.S
reading the abilities in the first page it appears that

any group

can have day talk.

Mod can you clarify this?

[nhammen]

• Day talk: In addition to the game thread, members of this group may also discuss the game outside of the thread at any time
  only
  in the provided quicktopic.
  
• Night talk: In addition to the game thread, members of this group may also discuss the game outside of the thread
  at night
  only
  in the provided quicktopic.
  
• No Talk: Members of this group do not have any additional method of communication other than the game thread.

Groups could have any of the above properties. So any group could have day talk, or any group could only have night talk, or no extra communication at all.

[kwll]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[absta101]

Wow, I didn't even know there was day talk. Trollie looks more scummy.
Full reply later.

[Tommy]

We know the Mafia have night talk and don't have day talk. There's a sample Goon role PM in post 2.

[Tommy]

If we wind up no-lynching then I am going after everyone not on one of the major wagons.

QFT. Slandaar, JacobSavage, toxictaipan, Kinetic: stop hedging and pick a team.

[absta101]

So day talk can only be for town?

[kwll]

Mod made it quite clear. Any modifier could be for any group. so we could have a mafia day talk...or night talk...or no talk...
same for VT...and I think I remember somthing that there could be neighbors...also Tommy I have read the Mods other game....he does NOT post all roles or everything in the samples...So I am curious to your statement on how You KNOW that mafia cant day talk?

[Cheery Dog]

The mafia goon sample says it's night talk. (if you open the spoiler)

Day talk & no talk are probably there if we have lovers or neighbourhoods.

[Tommy]

Tommy I have read the Mods other game....he does NOT post all roles or everything in the samples...So I am curious to your statement on how You KNOW that mafia cant day talk?

What? You're suggesting that the actual Goon PM might differ from the sample Goon PM?

[kwll]

During the earlier confusion when I asked the Mod to clairfiy I found on the wiki that he has modded another game. and the samples he had for everyone to read was not there was in the game, matter of fact the mafia sample in the other game was different than what it stated. I can offer a link.

[absta101]

Please do.

[kwll]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 78#1983878

there was a mafia roleblocker...but the sample said they had no abilities....so this makes me wonder as to the PRs in here...also the samples said nothing about a SK. That is why I am curious as to why Tommy used the word

know

.

To me it implies knowledge that we do not have.

[Tommy]

You've misunderstood how sample PMs work, kwll. The sample in that game was for the Goon role, not the Roleblocker role.

The actual Goon PM wasn't identical to the sample, but the differences didn't change the setup and nhammen apologised after the game for not having made them identical. Conclusion: even if absta101 had implied that day-talk was possible in our game, it wouldn't have been a scum-slip.

Other things to note from the earlier game:

• nhammen explicitly hinted in his rules post that he was using an unusual set-up: 'Do not expect all aspects of the site meta to be followed in my game design.' Turned out he had two doctors. We've been given no such warning, which makes such shenanigans less likely here.
  
• Josh Lyman's role PM showed that his team-mate was 'CallMeLiam
  Sweep
  '. In our game, I think we can conclude that if someone replaces into a Mafia role, they can see everyone who's been in their team-mate's slot. I'm now confident that asbta101 isn't buddies with kwll because of the fact that kwll didn't know about the Parama/absta101 replacement. If absta101 flips scum, I'll have a very strong town-read on kwll.

[Cheery Dog]

I feel it might be useful to point out that game was 3 years ago.
Now lets get back to the game at hand.