Mini 1390: Game Over

[_Sherlock_]

So, now that we have more time, can you respond to my/others' posts?

[absta101]

looks like this post now forms part of my absta101 case too. There's no way his last post came from town - if he was town, he would have a guarantee that his own lynch would hinder his team. He should be campaigning hard for his biggest scum read, not giving up.

There's no way?
I didn't know the deadline had been extended and thought a no-lynch would hinder my team more. If I was scum "giving up", I would've self hammered.

[_Sherlock_]

I've never got how a no-lynch hinders a town player more than their own lynch.

[absta101]

So, now that we have more time, can you respond to my/others' posts?

You just want to argue. I'll respond to you one last time, after that I'm moving to Trollie.

P-Edit:

I've never got how a no-lynch hinders a town player more than their own lynch.

Scum get a free kill, town has no post-lynch information.

[_Sherlock_]

Yes, I do enjoy arguing with you right now. It's helping me prove that you're scum. Especially since your last response was stating that my case was falling apart.

What information does the town get from lynching you-town?

[absta101]

@Sherlock

1. Since you claimed to have read Radelle in ISO, surely you would have been able to find more than one thing to support your case for Abaddon, right?

Wrong. If I had found anything more I would've brought it up regardless of alignment.
Do you agree?

2. First of all, you didn't know someone would specifically ask you to when you made the post. Second, like I've said before, if there's no town motivation to do something, town probably didn't do it.

My point is that I

had

an explanation (which the person asking me, Idiot, agreed with).
So why did I hold back that explanation? Well I couldn't be bothered to 'over-answer' his question. I read Radelle's ISO, found some towny things but did not note them down physically, and gave him my read on her. I could've explained it but that wasn't what he was asking for.

Also, your logic doesn't work. Go find out what a null tell is PLEASE!

3. This is bullshit. There's no logical jump from "He's wrong and I expect better from him" to "He's faking it."

What?
Just think about it. If he's acting in a way that I wouldn't expect, the first thing I would think is that he's scum faking it. What other conclusion were you expecting town-absta to come up with?

Fine. I'm an alt.

And my name doesn't start with the letter S.

So how did you get "mixed up"?

You're also using the exact same logic I used against you of looking for town motivation, which you shut down.

Explain.

That doesn't seem to have anything to do with toxic's #224.

...
Yes it does. I quoted his question, how can you miss it?

Did you have any reason to point it out at all? If not, the correct assumption is that you're scum with an unknown motive. You may have thought you may not be alive by Night 1, so you pointed it out for good measure.

I pointed it out so that Cheery doesn't claim prematurely in future games, hence the "ever again". And that wasn't a "soft claim". Anyone would've seen that without me.

Also, thank you for trying to show a scum motivation.
What you don't realise is that you can't just randomly think of one, it has to make sense. Unfortunately for you, yours doesn't.
Your scum-motivation theory is so bad that it's vote worthy (I would be voting you here if I wasn't L-1).
Explain why your scum-motivation says that I thought I wouldn't be alive till N1

even though I was on zero votes.

(Post #307)

[absta101]

Yes, I do enjoy arguing with you right now. It's helping me prove that you're scum. Especially since your last response was stating that my case was falling apart.

What information does the town get from lynching you-town?

- Waggon analysis (for later).
- Everything I did was genuine and thus can be trusted.
- etc.

[Slandaar]

Sherlock are you seriously trying to say nolynching day 1 is better than being lynched when you are a VT?

I do not think either of your cases are good. If you have a point you think is amazing, show me it and I will explain why I think its not, but I am not Abstas Lawyer.

[Cheery Dog]

I see we did end up with an extension, damn that means I didn't need to be waking up earlier than normal this morning to see where I stand today.
But since I'm here I don't trust the attitude thetrollie was using in his claim, but since it is a confirmable role I'm not sure what to do. I think I'll leave my vote where it is for the moment.

[absta101]

Cheery sheep Slandaar.

[TheTrollie]

Slandaars still on my null list so there is no way I'm letting him turn us 180 right now. if absta flips scum slandaar and abb are both under the microscope. i havent read through the last few pages yet really, will do some reading now

[TheTrollie]

Slandaar is a slight town read.

Lynch me to stop the no-lynch going through.

Fair enough. You could have also voted yourself

yeah, abstas post is a bit weird, but weird is all I will call it.

looking at the vote count, even if absta is somehow town, that flip would at least give us a TON of info.

[absta101]

town self hammering is dumb and wrong.

[Tommy]

I do not think either of your cases are good. If you have a point you think is amazing, show me it and I will explain why I think its not, but I am not Abstas Lawyer.

Good luck with your wagon.

I think I'll leave my vote where it is for the moment.

I now think Cheery Dog's Parama vote was distancing. We saw Cheery Dog happily accept in post 521 that he had no case on TheTrollie, but he's been entirely uninterested in moving his vote. Now he's fine with voting for a claimed power role. I predict a Cheery-absta team, and would equally happily lynch either of them.

[Cheery Dog]

I now think Cheery Dog's Parama vote was distancing. We saw Cheery Dog happily accept in post 521 that he had no case on TheTrollie, but he's been entirely uninterested in moving his vote. Now he's fine with voting for a claimed power role. I predict a Cheery-absta team, and would equally happily lynch either of them.

The rest of my post may help you figure out why I haven't moved my vote.

I also have not liked Trollie's tone when defending the apparent lack of a case against him, while I know it is frustrated, I have been trying to work out in my find if the frustration is coming from town or scum. At the moment I feel that is more likely to be scum frustration about not knowing how they've been caught.

I also don't have a case against absta, and am thinking him more likely town currently, and I'm not convinced by the cases that have been given against him.

[Idiotking]

Sure, that's a reasonable conclusion. However, my reasons for not wanting Trollie to shoot are perfectly substantiated. You'd also have to assume I'm not into the whole distancing thing.

You didn't cite evidence directly from the thread, and I am not too keen on meta as a defense. Your reasons are unsubstantiated because even if you legitimately believe them, they rely on gut assumptions. I do not make unfounded assumptions. I don't do gut. I analyze evidence presented in the game thread only. I accept meta as part of defense only because there is widespread agreement that it is legitimate. I completely ignore gut, because it's impossible to argue against. If you want to change my mind on something, you have to argue in a way that I can agree with. You haven't, and

can't

in this case because your assumptions

are not based on game-related evidence

. Like I said, that's the sort of thing that made Trollie look suspicious at first, and you're doing the same thing to defend him. I'm a little more willing to accept it from you just because you're new to online mafia, but my patience is very limited. Your specific defense of Trollie was:

I know it's the worst timing, but I'm not going to have time to make a

good

case for why Trollie is town. I can sum it up. Most of it is stuff that involves his motivations for posting, as a lot of his posts really don't make sense from a "I'm trying to trick the town into thinking I'm town" thought process. He's an experienced player; as scum, he would be putting more of an effort in to make himself look town. There's also the fact that I really don't like his wagon.

There is no evidence for any of this. It's 100% gut and assumption. This exact same defense can be used to defend literally every player who does anything, ever, and

it will be just as bad, every time

. And as I said above, it's honestly impossible to argue against. Any attempt to do so would just turn into a theory discussion about how scum, experienced or not, would likely react under certain stimuli, as in my little exchange with Trollie over this. If it's gut, I can't magically make you feel differently. You've already seen all the arguments and tossed them aside because you don't think they feel right. You don't like the wagon. How do I argue against that? "No, Sherlock, you really

do

like the wagon!" Do you see what I'm getting at? This is pet peeve number 2 for me: people mistaking gut for actual analysis.

[absta101]

I'm a little more willing to accept it from you just because you're new to online mafia, but my patience is very limited.

Sherlock isn't new. He's an alt.

@Mod

Can you delete the above post please.

[_Sherlock_]

@Idiot:

You're most likely right. Since I've already decided in my head that Trollie is town, any argument for it will most likely sound like a stretch. However, I would have given better, "real" reasons if I had the time.

I don't have time to respond to absta's defense. I'm going to Disney World.

[Idiotking]

Sherlock's an alt? But in his first post he said he was new here.

[toxictaipan]

Sherlock's an alt? But in his first post he said he was new here.

He admitted he was an alt in Post 565.


Alright, we've only got about 8 hours left and I want to get one last thing in before the deadline. All these last minute cases are making me super uneasy, and I'm sure there are plenty of shenanigans involved. I don't think we really have enough time left to properly analyze everything right now, but we need to focus on this Day 2. Even without an in-depth analysis, I can say without a doubt that absta101's constant vote hopping is scummy. First he was voting Cheery Dog, then switched to kwll, then TheTrollie, then back to kwll, self-votes for lulz,

back

to TheTrollie, TheTrollie claims, vote... Abaddon? Okay, I can't keep track of his votes and suspicions enough to tell what is going on here. At this point, he doesn't really seem to care who gets lynched as long as it's anyone he can bandwagon easily. His only clear intention is that he's throwing anything out there and trying to make it stick.

I'm going to wait a few more hours, but I'm declaring intent to hammer. If anyone has something to say, now's the time.

[absta101]

Vote hopping within like 3 posts isn't scummy. Scum wouldn't vote hopp that obviously.

[Tommy]

Ready for hammer.

[Deltabacon]

With the revelation that Trollie's apparently a 1-shot-vig, I'm ready for hammer as well.

UNVOTE: The Trollie

[kwll]

ready for hammer

[absta101]

Slandaar's town read.