Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• Thor665 (2)
  : Soul2277 PiggyGal15
  
• JesseSheffield (2)
  : Thor665 N
  
• Soul2277 (2)
  : JesseSheffield Justin Timberlake
  
• Deadpool (1)
  : Cerulean
  
• Not voting:
  Deadpool

Deadline: Sat 1 Dec, 23:29 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-12-01 23:29:00)

)

With 8 alive it is 5 to lynch.

[Deadpool]

Piggy does a derp vote.
Thor becomes a scumtell.
#mylife

I saw here play a much more confident game as town in micro 36 though. Here she just seems so nervous, and I can see here being coached by you.

[Deadpool]

Why does the flavor of this game read suspiciously close to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

[PiggyGal15]

And piggy so you not saying much during day 2 was just lack of care?

Pretty much, I was so close to replacing out, but I was like "No! I like this game! It's got some awesome peops in it! I WILL PUSH THROUGH!" So I did, and it's all good now ^.^


Dead feels pretty town to me, and Ceru continues to as well, Soul is starting to waver though... odd... I might look more into that.
Thor is still looking like a good lynch, and I'm sad there aren't more votes on him.

N is starting to become scummier, and I don't know why. I'mma go look into that and make some more sense of it.

[Thor665]

@Piggy - it's probably because when I explained how your case didn't make any sense everyone, but you, got it.

Seriously - Dead is almost calling it a scumtell on me that you're voting me because the case looks so badly timed - read m0ar.

[JesseSheffield]

Well, obviously I disagree. I personally think that what I have to say is quite important, especially since it has made you slip up a few times already. The fact that you want to cut off any discussion with me also points to the fact that you're worried you'll let something else slip.

Really because I'm pretty sure I've already expressed my distaste for run-on arguments.

I took "Don't pretend you care about what Sixty has to say" as you saying I should hammer. What were you saying there then? Looking at it again after you've said that's not what you mean, the only other way I can think of to interpret it is you thought Sixty was town.

I really don't know where you made that leap. I think its pretty clear that I meant you were being disingenuous about caring what anyone else had to say and you were just biding your time to hammer.

and then dropped it all to hop on the agreed big bus of the day today

When was that agreed upon? Pretty sure that didn't happen.

It will *totally* blow Jesse's mind though. He was so sold too. Poor guy.

Thor = Failed

Jesse is there a reason you didn't respond or comment on my Post 534 explaining how your reasoning should lead to N-Town and not N-Scum. You commented on Thors post above it and state that you still have a scum-read on N in Post 644 so clearly you haven't 'agreed' with me on how your logic is flawed so want to explain to me how I have it wrong? Also you said there was things in our catch up post you wanted to comment on - it never happened.

Oh I kind of just thought you were posting that you disagreed, here’s your mindset, over. It doesn’t really make sense to me and I actually don’t follow where you got that idea. My stance makes sense to me, it sounds like you comprehend it, but disagree. I pretty much thought that conversation was dead in the water. I also don’t know what I’m supposed to be commenting on from your catch-up post.

Jesse, can you post your notes for me?

Sure, on what?

Re: Jesse - Does that mean you believe there are two scum votes on the Sixty wagon?

I’m thinking its really unlikely.

[Justin Timberlake]

Could you just dump your notes on everything? I'd like to see your thoughts on stuff.

[Justin Timberlake]

You can spoiler tag them if there's a lot.

[Thor665]

and then dropped it all to hop on the agreed big bus of the day today

When was that agreed upon? Pretty sure that didn't happen.

Spoken like someone who wants me to believe he can't read wagon momentum.

It will *totally* blow Jesse's mind though. He was so sold too. Poor guy.

Thor = Failed

Spoken like someone who doesn't explain how the case is still viable even though I did things to it that are illegal under the Geneva convention.

Re: Jesse - Does that mean you believe there are two scum votes on the Sixty wagon?

I’m thinking its really unlikely.

Interesting response.
You should stop scumskimming.

[Thor665]

Could you just dump your notes on everything? I'd like to see your thoughts on stuff.

Can't we just lynch him now?

[Soul2277]

Considering OS is still busy here's the answer for the question you want JT. He started the wall 2/3 days ago (can't remember when exactly) and then finished it yesterday just continuing from where he was.

Next for n even while null we tended to think of more as town. N being null was mainly his disappearance day 1 so him going back and continuing to post a similar level of content made us just go back to the read. It really wasn't an argument though.

As for you I didn't ever think you were scum (you're slot I found equi suspicious at start, but after that nope). I argued with you because you suspected me.

JT yes he uses beard elsewhere. Point being I've seen him use more logic then this. It's not the fact he's using it but the amount he's using it (I might be biased since I generally read games he ICs, but that at least shows he can use more logic).

Piggy for what?

~Mehdi

[Cerulean]

Regfan, when I read over absta's posts the first time I didn't see what you were talking about but after rereading them I 100% get it and I'll talk it over with Tammy the next time I see her. Want to remind you to look at Piggy's #646, I thought it was kind of genuine when I read it but I'm on the fence. Still haven't made time to look at Mehdi/OS's meta but I'll try to make some this week.

Deadpool, I'm really interested in hearing F-16's thoughts on the game so please try to get him in here ASAP.

So far, the only slot I have in my "unlynchable" pool is Justin Timberlake. I have a bunch of weaker townreads but I'm not confident in them at all, want to give the thread another reread and talk them over some with Tammy to decide where we want to go.

~Empire.

[Soul2277]

Deadpool, I'm really interested in hearing F-16's thoughts on the game so please try to get him in here ASAP.

Why? Have you played with him before? If yes have you not played with SAD?

~Mehdi

[Cerulean]

I've played with F-16 before here and though I was scum there I felt like he was very transparently town in that game. I only played with Arthur briefly here, where even though I read him as town correctly, he replaced out shortly after I replaced in so I feel a bit less confident with him. Tammy claims to know his meta very well though and I want to talk with her over Arthur's recent posts.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

Just woke up, going to grab breakfast and then I'll go do the Piggy post reading and Sixty ISOing.

Soul are town, pretty much what I told Faraday was "If he attempts to claim the wall was all made in the past then he's lying as the latter end include him stating information about Voideds death and if it claims to have done it all recently then he's scum because the Equinox question makes zero sense with the current situation, so only way he'd be town is if 3/4 of it was done in the past and the rest being recent". And I don't think Oversoul would have made a wall like that and not have posted it as scum, as scum he'd be leaping to show he's done effort but the fact it wasn't posted for days means that the slots town.

Thor, eh. I understand what you're saying about N though I think I've seen scum do that before so I don't think standing back saying "Let them trap partners" is as big a town-tell as you're making out. Do think the slots town at the moment though but it's not a massively strong read, his post towards me saying that we're confusing him due to different conclusions on everything did read very genuine.

Oh I kind of just thought you were posting that you disagreed, here’s your mindset, over. It doesn’t really make sense to me and I actually don’t follow where you got that idea. My stance makes sense to me, it sounds like you comprehend it, but disagree. I pretty much thought that conversation was dead in the water. I also don’t know what I’m supposed to be commenting on from your catch-up post.

This doesn't make any sense? I don't think I could have made my post any clearer in fact about how your logic was flawed so you can't really just say "I disagree" towards it. Do you 1) Think N would attempt to mslynch and target Thor-Town as scum, answer you gave earlier was unlikely, right? 2) Think that N would attempt to buss and distance with Thor-Scum, answer you gave earlier was unlikely too, right? So if both 1 and 2 are unlikely then the more likely scenario would

have

to be that you thought N was town. Also really not getting your Thor vote, you said earlier in the game that he was the person scumhunting, questioning people and hunting for motivation the most, in fact you said that you think scum were 'buddying him' so the turn-around when he votes you and says that you 'fell' for his trap really isn't making sense whatsoever. Especially since before today the only scum-read was a connection to N which I explain above shouldn't make N scum and thus shouldn't make him scum due to it. Also very much do what Faraday said - we want the notes posted in full.

Also

Unvote.

[Justin Timberlake]

Just finished reading through Piggys Post 646, I think the whole talk about her not liking or being good at the start of games is genuine and true but I don't think it's that alignment related here at all. Same goes with her talk about liking to replace in.

The vote on Thor feels odd given that she's claiming it's process of elimination and then at the same time claiming that it's a strong thing that she wishes she would have brought up earlier. Not just that but the point about him staying on his RVS vote for so long isn't really a scum-tell and his vote on Cerulan wasn't a big scum-read that needed pushing and that read changed so not sure what she's trying to get at about that. The point about Thor / Sixty interactions might be the only one that holds an ounce of validity but I'll need to check that game to make sure she's not lying about their interaction or at least who started it. If Sixty started it in Reverse than it not happening here is completely null given Sixty being mafia.

I really don't like her 'third scum' section though, particularly Jesse in there, she states that she has a town-read on him and that it's strength changes constantly but reading through her ISO she's only ever stated a scum read on him and hasn't commented on him or anything by him since then.

---

Got through Sixtys ISO too. Still undecided on what her push on Piggy meant, initial gut reading was that she would've push on partner with such a bad case but looking back at it the fact that her vote in Post 79 put Piggy to L-1 might be due to thinking that Piggy was dead weight already and attempting to get some cred out of it. Interaction with Cerulean and Absta make them even more obvtown. Got one more thing to add here* but want to wait for something first.

[Justin Timberlake]

It's meant to say she wouldn't not she would've.

Empire, where's your head at right now?

[Cerulean]

Right now, I want to say N's town, feel like he comes across as genuinely frustrated at being misrepped in his whole back and forth with Jesse (#660). Tammy and I are still debating about Deadpool/Thor. Rereading Sixty's case against Piggy does remind me a bit of Tierce's bus case against Shinori in Abarat 2 (for reference: here). Right now, I'm currently re-examining Jesse. I'm inclined to agree with your points re: OS being town.

~Empire.

[Soul2277]

Looking back at reverse mafia thor pushed on sixty first. Basically:

Sixty I don't want to be revived now since I don't want to die.
Thor we'll never revive you then.
Then argument between the two a lot.

I don't really think vi/tierce are the quick to bus type in this set up (although I don't know their meta) which I thought is a point in piggy's favor. Other things (disappearance after day 1 for a while, the interesting sixty attack following when she was less likely to be lynched, her reads such as mine and I'll copy you on jesse) point to her being scum. The other problem is I'm not sure how likely a thor/piggy team is. Originally it looked doubtful but if piggy is unable to really push thor a lot then it'd be a good move.

P-edit: Empire do you think tierce would bus early in this set up (specifically how it's white flag)?

~Mehdi

[Justin Timberlake]

It doesn't matter if she'd choose to bus, she might have felt she had to bus? Piggy was at L-2 and she might have felt it'd look weird to avoid the wagon. The case is stretching to find as much shit as possible, so it could easily be trying to grab some of the cred with the first 3/4 people on the wagon.

The other part of it is they read Piggy successfully in Reverse, right? So here surely TOWNPUPPY would be expected to do it. (Or at the very least, late game if Piggy was lynched and they hadn't there might be questions asked).

[Justin Timberlake]

Empire, yeah, I'm in the process of re-examining Jesse too. I really haven't liked his play since we've played in, his vote on Thor is bad and he's avoiding discussing anything in any depth now, particularly his stances and reads. Plus his interaction and stance on Sixty is bad - take a look. I'd agree on N sounding genuine too.

Soul, so the bickering in Reverse was about a particular mechanic and not just reads? If so then the lack of it here means nothing at all. And I didn't think Tierce would be the bussing type in the setup but seriously take a look back at how it all occurred. She put forward the case when Piggy was at L-1, if scum is getting lynched D1 the partners have to look good out of it. So it's very possible she thought Piggy was fucked and decided she might as well get town cred and look good out of it; Faraday says that it's very likely it's an all town votes on Piggy beforehand and it's us/voided/thor/n so I'd agree there I think.

Pedited by Faraday I think lol.

[Justin Timberlake]

(Personally if I had played with someone as town and correctly identified them as scum, then the next game the roles were reversed I'd read the 'correctly' this game too, as I think it'd be more likely to give them a town read on me)

[Justin Timberlake]

(But you know I'd also not sacrifice myself instead of fighting the links so etc)

[Cerulean]

@Deadpool - what do you, coming from 20+ games of experience, think of Tammy calling herself a waffle queen and how does that feed into your current read there?

She's town bro.

Like, super town.

Sorry Tammy :/ I mean, I was super exhausted yesterday, the game was so fucking dense, and somehow I did not expect so many walls <_< I really needed to get a read on you, and you know that's easiest to do :p I literarly was bullshitting reads, and that catchup I did was pathetic at best seeing I was skimming everything fast. And there are different levels of mad that you get that indicate whether you're town or not.

The actual intention started harmless because I really was lost and wanted your thoughts. But then decided push it instead when you refused to answer. And you towntold like super hard *shrug* (tbh it was like déjà vu from that game you were Tuon).

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but there are things that don't add up. Yes, you were bullshitting reads I guess, but you posted post numbers of mine and what you thought. You quoted one of my responses to Jesse in your post; therefore, you had read me. When I asked about what gave you the idea I had a scum read on Thor, you immediately quoted the post that gave you that idea. So, you may have been reading and going through quickly, but you were very well aware of my posts and that I was town telling. Since you quoted my response to Jesse, you already knew that I had displayed my town mad that I get, you didn't need to test it. And, I'm lost on this aspect too, but you've never needed to test it once you've known that it's me playing. So, none of this makes any sense to me coming from town you.

What bothers me isn't that you asked for my reads, I couldn't care less about that as I've been very up front with my reads the entire game and had earlier said I needed to reasess. We have exactly three lynches to get this done and my two strongest scum reads had been lynched. What bothered me is that you refused to answer the questions I asked and instead deflected onto me. I could tell you had an agenda and were going to throw crap at me, so yes I got stubborn about it. What reads weird to me is that you didn't need to push anyone else to get a stronger read on them in the way you did me and the way you went about it discrediting me and our getting scum lynched sets off alarms for me. Because that makes literally no sense coming from town you.

[Justin Timberlake]

Well really trying to discredit you as a scum strategy is dumb as no one thinks you're not obvtown. (Thor said this).