Micro 75: Bureaucracy Mafia (Game Over)

[Empking]

Vote Count 15

Breakfast (4) - maverick_alpha, njoseph, Shamrock, Aj The Epic
Aj the epic (2) - Breakfast, Jake from State Farm

Not voting: Maestro, Robert2424, pirate mollie

5 to lynch.

[Robert2424]

Also, VOTE: pirate mollie for reasons.

To tell you the truth AJ, I keep thinking Breakfast is a girl, but then look and its a guy also.

this is the extent of your impressions of the last few pages?

If your insinuating I'm trying to insult Breakfast, no. I meant it mainly by his name and pic. I am unsure how to feel about him. Sure he needs to post more, but idk.

[Breakfast]

Well, you don't really seem to

have

an argument, apart from "he wanted to know what was on the paper!!" which I suspect is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell, and "he's passing information to his scumbuddies!!" which is just absurd on the face of it because (a) he didn't have any non-obvious information to pass on, and (b) he wasn't really in any danger of being lynched.

My argument is not that he wanted to know what's on the paper, it's that he's fishing. Did you think his logic about Jake's paper made sense? If so, would you have figured it out without his posting it? I don't think it made sense, but he seemed to, and from my perspective, he was deliberately laying out information that would benefit scum to know. On reflection I think that you're right that he wasn't intentionally passing on information to scum buddies - he just didn't care or notice that he was, and he was doing it to fish.

How are you getting me knowing his alignment from "if he is town"? (wking = white knighting?)

you are supporting his position. saying that "he will show us the papers when he is ready" implies that you are deriving a town motivation to what he was doing at the time when I don't see that at all. it was pretty anti-town and I think he handled it poorly. this is a subtle wk in that you are defending the position but distancing yourself from a committed read ("if he is town!!1!") so that you can use him as a possible lynch candidate later on. it is a weird position to defend.

I think what Jake was doing made perfect sense from a town perspective, and I was defending the play, not the player. You are right that I didn't have a solid read at the time. I thought it was more beneficial to err on the side of trusting Jake-as-town to make what he thought was the right play with the information he had, rather than pressing Jake-as-scum to reveal information that he could easily lie about.

Breakfast, you said that it's better to see how scum interact when you know which one is scum based on paper, how? Do you mean to say whether we should find out if scum is bussing or attempting a misslynch when the first day is going?

If that's what the paper actually said, then yes. I think the best play would be to let someone you know is scum keep posting for as long as possible that day, before revealing that they're scum.

TBC

[Breakfast]

My reads:

Jake: I agree he was unhelpful for most of the first half of the day, but I didn't think that was a reason to label him as scum. I agreed with how he was playing the paper game, so I defended his play as being townie. Aside from that I think he's been more helpful and active in scumhunting since then, so I've continued thinking he's town.

pirate mollie: I didn't buy her reasons for voting me at first, but since her latest posts I think she's genuinely scumhunting.

Maestro: I disagree with his choice to reveal the paper, but I think he's town.

shamrock: Generally town, but don't think it's wise that he's downplaying all the paper debate.

njoseph: His early wall of text was almost illegible and basically useless, but since then he's seemed pretty townie.

m_a: His only stated reason for voting me is he thinks town should know what's on the papers and I disagree with that. I don't have a solid read on him, I'm inclined to think he's scummy because he doesn't seem that convinced of his vote, plus he hasn't actually revoted since rvs.

Robert: He doesn't really take any firm stances in his arguments, and a lot of them are unsubstantiated by quotes or just accusatory and lacking in logic. Probable scum.

Aj: Oh Aj.


Here is Aj coming out against fishing:

Was rather unhelpful. At the same time, PM, if there was anything important to us right now, he would've said anything. It's almost like you're fishing to see if he learned anything.

Here is Aj indirectly saying that fishing is sometimes ok:

It also occurred to me that you could've gained some other power with the collection of the paper. Were you town, this power could seem relatively important. So, in that case, I wouldn't fish.

Here is Aj fishing:

Jake, your logic is very shaky. First off, you basically just said to everyone that you got something important that scum shouldn't know. Well, by that, you just told everyone that you either just learned a power role of someone or you just gained one yourself. Nice job putting a target on yourself...

Here is Aj fishing, by saying that he wasn't fishing, and that he was forced by Jake into doing what looked like fishing:

And I wasn't fishing. Fishing is when you try to get someone to claim their roles. I have no need to know his role, and, as I said, he already told me what that paper said.

Here is Aj now saying that if it looks like he's fishing it's my fault:

You kept forcing the issue, so I kept trying to explain myself to you. Had you dropped it and accepted that I honestly did not believe I was fishing, I wouldn't have had need to say that.
...
He forced the issue, making me have to explain myself. Which, in turn, caused me to show my logic behind my assumption. If anything, he spurred it because he chose to make an argument multiple times.

If what he had town motivation for his not-fishing, why does he need to find somebody else to blame it on?

[Breakfast]

My claim is that I am VT and a boy with a girl avatar.

[Jake from State Farm]

Also, to answer the second question, yes, if it's between not posting info early and not posting info at all, the latter is worse, though posting info at the slightest still outweighs them all.

lol, you basically just called what you are doing scummier than what you and others had accused me of. What you are doing is so anti-town its not even funny.


I know I can't get a wagon going on you today because people are focused on breakfast, but if I'm alive tomorrow we are lynching you.

[Maestro]

I know I can't get a wagon going on you today.

Fundamentally untrue. I'm still willing to gambit on the paper and lynch him, especially given his play today.

[pirate mollie]

Also, VOTE: pirate mollie for reasons.

To tell you the truth AJ, I keep thinking Breakfast is a girl, but then look and its a guy also.

this is the extent of your impressions of the last few pages?

If your insinuating I'm trying to insult Breakfast, no. I meant it mainly by his name and pic. I am unsure how to feel about him. Sure he needs to post more, but idk.

why did you quote maestro's rvs vote on me for

[Maestro]

^ Obvious quotefail is obvious.

[Shamrock]

If your insinuating I'm trying to insult Breakfast, no. I meant it mainly by his name and pic. I am unsure how to feel about him. Sure he needs to post more, but idk.

No, I'm insinuating that you're being useless and need to post Content.

Breakfast... might actually be town

[pirate mollie]

I know I can't get a wagon going on you today.

Fundamentally untrue. I'm still willing to gambit on the paper and lynch him, especially given his play today.

jake has the other piece of paper. happy to move the lynch off of breakfast especially if prods are issued out.

I say robert, he looks like pondscum and is there anybody who thinks he looks like town at this point but I could be moved to a maverick lynch.

[Maestro]

Why?

[Jake from State Farm]

I know I can't get a wagon going on you today.

Fundamentally untrue. I'm still willing to gambit on the paper and lynch him, especially given his play today.

Deadline in 2 days and a bunch of idiots voting breakfast for doing sonething so pro town plus me on v/la = not likely to happen.

[Shamrock]

Breakfast... might actually be town

Actually... disregard this.

I got a "this is a crappy case that he actually believes" impression the first time I read his posts.

But then I read them again and his case is super super forced like he's scared to shift his reads/reasoning.

(I

would

still lynch Robert, though.)

pedit: Breakfast is doing what that's pro-town?

[Maestro]

@Jake/everybody on the wagon: Breakfast tomorrow.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

[Shamrock]

- If his name is on the paper, isn't it reasonable to think that we might have more information on maverick tomorrow?
- Why maverick over Robert? Robert is sooo much worse.

[Maestro]

- Not unless something happens to me (either I rise up in the world or I give the paper away). Do you expect that to happen?
- Explain why or we're sticking with one of these two.

[pirate mollie]

Breakfast... might actually be town

Actually... disregard this.

I got a "this is a crappy case that he actually believes" impression the first time I read his posts.

But then I read them again and his case is super super forced like he's scared to shift his reads/reasoning.

(I

would

still lynch Robert, though.)

pedit: Breakfast is doing what that's pro-town?

defending herself admirably for starters.

maestro I will get to you on my reasons for a robert lynch. I will have to look at my notes and figure out what I was thinking (and no, note taking is not a scum tell for me I take notes all of the time).

[pirate mollie]

I can get on board with a maverick lynch.

[Robert2424]

@Jake/everybody on the wagon: Breakfast tomorrow.

VOTE: maverick_alpha

Really? Lets just go for a lynch, just for a lynch. At least provide reasoning for your vote.

- If his name is on the paper, isn't it reasonable to think that we might have more information on maverick tomorrow?
- Why maverick over Robert? Robert is sooo much worse.

Yes, I've done so bad cause I don't feel comfortable hammering Breakfast, right. Your not in the clear ether.

[Shamrock]

- Not unless something happens to me (either I rise up in the world or I give the paper away). Do you expect that to happen?
- Explain why or we're sticking with one of these two.

Maestro, I actually suspect that the point of the paper may to be give it away - see the top of the first post.

Robert being scum (I honestly kind of think this speaks for itself; emphasis all mine):

Vote Jake

That is really poor excuse. "I'm on my phone, nothing going to be solid posting from me, skim readings/postings, put what you want to say, I believe you can post just fine off your phone. I would post from my phone if I could and if I could, I would be able to read everything and make just as good judgement as on the computer.

I'm starting to believe everyone else here now....

If I had guess as of right now, I'd be looking at Jake, and ether you or Maestro. Mainly unsure about both of you and maestro,

I just getting ? marks on

. Private Molly has fallen behind in the scum race. AJ,

I have a hard time getting a read on him

, but always good to keep an eye on him. nj

I have little of a read on

. maverick_alpha and Breakfast,

I'm not sure what to think about them to tell you the truth. I still got alot of ? marks.

So idk, this is a long D1 then usual(for me), but

I feel I have more reads then I normally do

on the other site, if that makes sense.

Ok Shamrock, I believe Jake is scum due to his shady behavior since the beginning of the game. Also him revealing nothing about that paper other then "for N1" witch I don't believe because I don't trust him. Also I've found his defense lacking really after I've voted for him. As for Maestro, the piece of paper has me wondering, but

I've mainly got q marks on him. It more of a gut feeling as with you

, also I believe there might be a connection via you and Jake or Maestro. Though I'm horrible when it comes to connections between players really and have been wrong alot. Molly seems to half been under the radar and

I haven't gotten much off her posts. So to me and my past experiences I think she warrants to be watched more closely

(at least for me). AJ is like the male version of Heather on the site I've come from.

Can't get an accurate read on him.

Though given the choice because heather is a girl I'll take heather......lol sorry AJ.

As for everybody else I don't have much of a read and are mainly ??? marks.

So to recap, Jake's behavior, his posts, and the paper, and mainly you and Maestro gut and probably my horrible reading you might be connected to him. That make sense?

@Nj, I've very up in the air about Breakfast.

I still need to get more of a read on him.

Also, for now, I think I'll do this.

Unvote

I'm not sure about Breakfast, he has been focused on AJ all game really. His activity isn't that great ether. Course makes me wonder, we've had two close bandwagons on D1, maybe there's mafia that has been on both wagons?

[pirate mollie]

here is what I got:

post #1: gut reads eh? what at that point had been posted that seemed scummy?

post #157: "I am starting to believe everyone else here now..." lol. let us twist your arm into a read. accountability evasion.

post #237: cos no one ever foses their scumbuddy ever! :awwgee:

also wondering if robert has played here before with the random caps thing. who does that. but that is super weak site meta that I can't really support except that I have only seen it here.

he really isn't scum hunting for the most part, although maverick is doing so even less.

[Maestro]

Ohohoho...Shamrock, that was good. That was

VERY

good.
I'll yield to giving up the paper, but I'll WIFOM it between a few choices. Fuck you Scum.

@Jake: Thoughts on Robert.

[Aj The Epic]

My orange icons don't seem to love me much. After much review, it seems that there's a group of us who wants to change a whole lynch before the 22nd. I will be inactive the 22nd and mostly inactive the 23rd, but that won't matter, as it should be night phase by then.

Sham's post is very self-explanatory on Robert's post, there is no arguing that. But, Breakfast cannot quit with the tunneling. I honestly am at a loss for how he manages to justify this literally 10 pages (which equates to over 250 posts! And roughly 5 days, at least) after the fact. We've beaten that point to death, and yet he tries to draw it against me again. If he hasn't managed anything other than that really, I'm feeling very safe with my vote.

[pirate mollie]

My orange icons don't seem to love me much. After much review, it seems that there's a group of us who wants to change a whole lynch before the 22nd. I will be inactive the 22nd and mostly inactive the 23rd, but that won't matter, as it should be night phase by then.

Sham's post is very self-explanatory on Robert's post, there is no arguing that. But, Breakfast cannot quit with the tunneling. I honestly am at a loss for how he manages to justify this literally 10 pages (which equates to over 250 posts! And roughly 5 days, at least) after the fact. We've beaten that point to death, and yet he tries to draw it against me again. If he hasn't managed anything other than that really, I'm feeling very safe with my vote.

except that you are cross tunneling and not weighing in on a possible robert lynch what is up with that. weighing in as in if you think shamrock made a good case then you should be voting for robert right now instead of obsessing about his vote on you.