Open 463: Black Flag Nightless (Game Over)

[Justin Timberlake]

Arthur, what you're missing about Thors N push is that he didn't have a scum-read on him, he did it to see who would join him and get reactions and reads from it.

JustinTimberlake reads as scum. Once Sixty hammered, they started going after Sixty hard - they need to as scum. It makes sense to bus a buddy after a bad quickhammer. That and the fact that JustinTimberlake had Voided and Sixty as their biggest scumreads while voting Voided Day 1 rubs me the wrong way - trying to ensure a mislynch while having a buddy as a top scumread.

We pushed Sixty because the blitzhammer made very very very little sense as town and they were our strongest remaining scum-read. There's nothing more to it than that. This entire paragraph from you is filled with confirmation-bias, ie. you're only looking at things one way.

[Justin Timberlake]

Okay, so back to this. Out of the combinations in Post 1045 the ones that I'd confidently rule out as not being the case are B) (Jesse and Thor) and F) (Soul and Thor). For B) Thor has been strongly pushing on Jesse for quite some time now and given the setup it'd be leading to a loss for him, Jesses reaction and tunnel back onto Thor due to it is something that makes no sense if these guys are partners, fair to say that objectively this pairing is pretty much impossible. For F) Soul has been pushing on Thor quite a lot and after Piggys lynch their attention towards Thor is something that shows their intention is to push on him, and quite hard at that. Their reasoning behind voting Thor at the moment can very easily be turned around to lead them to voting N for the same reasoning and I don't think as scum they'd phrase it all to end up voting a partner. Souls case on Thor, Thors rebuttal to it and then Soul asking me to comment on my thoughts on what parts of his case were legitimate or not is again something that I don't see happening if they're partners. So removing those three pairings it's left with:

A) Jesse + N
C) Jesse + Soul
D) N + Thor
E) N + Soul

Just need to look into those now.

[N]

It's hardly a wagon if there's only 1 vote. Also, Deadpool's trying to distract onto the Thor wagon. He doesn't care which of Thor or I are voted for, as long as it's not you.

Umm, no :?

I think I made it pretty obv that I want you lynched?

(Also what is so wrong about fucking trying to sway a lynch the way you think scum lies again?)

PS: Very good. As long as Jess isn't voted I'm happy. You wanna know why?

Here's the shocker:

Spoiler:

BECAUSE I THINK HE'S FUCKING TOWN

If you don't think Thor is scum, why are you posting things like 1055, 1056 and 1058?

N shows up. New job, understandable. What the problem now is that he is continuing his questioning of Piggy and that discussion had long passed. There was so much interesting stuff that happenned since N had left the thread and there are no comments about any of them. He has time to pick up on then-irrelevant stuff like Piggy and ignores the new developments between Cerulean, Jesse, and Soul.

My questions of Piggy were not irrelevant. I thought she was faking her read of me and wanted better reasons (which she never gave).

[Justin Timberlake]

N, Arthur thinks that Jesse is town, not Thor.

[Justin Timberlake]

A) Jesse + N - Happy enough to rule this out now. Jesses joining of the N wagon when Thor started it would be something he'd know would make him likely have to vote N down the line - doesn't make sense for him to do as partners. Ns reaction and statement of 'you call that shit a case you're worse than sixty than' and omgus of Jesse and Jesse pointing it out. Dislike the fact that so many of his posts are refuting, arguing and calling N a scum-read yet happily jumping and voting elsewhere, if he thinks N is mafia and is relatively confident in it then there should be a lot more of him staying on the vote. That said Ns aggression and annoyance with Jesse as well as Jesses return in a lot of posts don't look like partner on partner. N staying on Jesses wagon at the moment with no real signs of moving point against it too.

[Justin Timberlake]

D) N + Thor - Interaction wise this fits. Thors dislike of Ns comment of starting to suspect him until he was voted by him and dislike of the hammer related comment of waiting for them to post more incriminating posts to their buddies before hammering isn't something that actually really looks like a 'lie', he seems to genuinely believe both those comments are bad so him claiming that he was 'lying' the whole time during that to fake ammunition to vote N to get a reaction test for feels like a stretch. Him reaction testing a partner to see who would join on them is possible as it gives him some room to move the next few days by allowing him to vote whoever joins him. His reasoning for the N town read feels weak too. Ns town read on Thor for 'voting him' is extremely odd, not something I'd ever consider a town-tell especially since it's based of just two games - did just go hunting for them to see if Thor was actually town in both games and he was - it's Reserve Rudex and Political Corruption if anyone's interested. Says Thor/Soul are stubborn town vs town. Really no real pressure put on each other.

E) N + Soul - Interaction wise this actually fits very very well. Soul haven't stated any real thoughts on N other than null earlier and a town read later but no reasoning attached, stated they 'instantly' agreed on him as town and that he was null because of inactivity. Have a lot of interaction with everyone else it seems other than N. N similarly doesn't do much with Soul too, states he hasn't read the debate between Soul/Us and says he thinks we're both town, says he hasn't read the argument between Soul/Thor and thinks they're both town. Says Soul is meta is town due to meta of him not asking so many questions as scum. Initial thought of that was didn't think scum would bring up meta of partner but going over it can very much see scum using that sort of reasoning to town read partner. Souls reasoning for their vote of partnership PoE can lead them to vote Thor and N just as easily and their vote on Thor for 'individual scuminness' without saying much about N at the time makes sense as distancing as if Thor gets lynched and flips town the case on N of partner PoE would vanish.

Will do C) Jesse + Soul later.

[Justin Timberlake]

Oh, Deadpool (Mostly Arthur) can you explain your town read on Soul in detail, like point by point so I can understand what I'm missing because getting a solid-town read on them will help massively and Post 902 from them really really rubbed me the wrong way; They were the lead vote on Piggy and showed confidence the entire time so their initial reaction after the hammer being questioning someone else and continuing to scumhunt rather than thinking it was over feels unnatural and at this point barely anyone had posted meaning that Piggy-Scum would have been something they should still have believed in there.

[Justin Timberlake]

Yeah, really want to talk to Faraday about Jesse + Soul. Not sure at all about if they work or not, got things pointing both ways.

[N]

Ns town read on Thor for 'voting him' is extremely odd, not something I'd ever consider a town-tell especially since it's based of just two games - did just go hunting for them to see if Thor was actually town in both games and he was - it's Reserve Rudex and Political Corruption if anyone's interested.

Now that we're both dead in it, I can point out that he thought I was scummy in Newbie 1288 too. So there was actually a little bit more to my read than two games we'd been in together.

[Justin Timberlake]

JustinTimberlake reads as scum. Once Sixty hammered, they started going after Sixty hard - they need to as scum. It makes sense to bus a buddy after a bad quickhammer. That and the fact that JustinTimberlake had Voided and Sixty as their biggest scumreads while voting Voided Day 1 rubs me the wrong way - trying to ensure a mislynch while having a buddy as a top scumread.

don't post again

[Justin Timberlake]

JT: JT makes me really wary. If I’m thinking logically unless the scum team is Thor/N there’s really not many options for N to be on a scum team with. As funny as this might sound I really don’t like JT butting in on N/I’s argument. I mean its really SUCH a stupid, illogical argument and I just don’t see how any of the town benefits by its continuance. On the inside, its just really frustrating to watch N not comprehend/misquote over and over and over again. But on the outside, I just don’t get what you can possibly extract from it by interjecting. I don’t know why JT let himself get goaded back into it by me. Cerulean did a really nice job deflecting that on Day 1 which is where I get such a solid town read on them. I also just don’t really see much pro-town motivation behind JT’s posting.

You asked me about it first and then you were a smarmy cunt so I wanted to prove I'd read it right.

I'm not sure why being goaded into it would make me scum? Especially if you admit you're goading? Seems a very human reaction to you GOING LOL BOTH HYDRA HEADS ARE WRONG, when I was right. Why would you purposely goad someone into a stupid argument? How would their reaction be alignment relevant?

[Cerulean]

Regfan, after you're done with you PoE analysis, want to take a shot at cracking Jesse's meta? I've been going over the games I linked with Tammy trying to get a sense of what he plays like as both alignments. She's going to be out of town for Thanksgiving weekend and while she might get some internet access I won't be able to communicate with her much.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

Yeah, I will. Faraday wants to look specifically to see if Jesse gets frustrated as scum so suggest you guys look out for that too.

Also if there's anything you think I've incorrectly ruled out PoE you should let me know sooner rather than later.

[Cerulean]

Sure, I'll mull over your PoE analysis + your Deadpool townread when I come back from school/work.

From what I recall, Jesse does get really frustrated as both alignments though I'm not sure if it was to the same extent as scum as it is here.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

Man these games are old. Jessie only has like 5 posts in one of the town games too.

[Cerulean]

Yeah, it sucks but that was pretty much the best I could do. You could try mining for older ones if you want but I'm not so sure they'd be reliable.

~Empire.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm not even sure these are that useful. Well there's a couple of things that I find interesting. I want to read them in more depth, though.

[Justin Timberlake]

I'm heading to bed, I'll have a proper look at Jesses games and go over Jesse/Soul one more time tomorrow.

[callforjudgement]

Vote Count

• JesseSheffield (2)
  : N Thor665
  
• Thor665 (2)
  : Soul2277 JesseSheffield
  
• N (1)
  : Deadpool
  
• Not voting:
  Justin Timberlake Cerulean

Deadline: Mon 3 Dec, 10:37 UTC (

automatic countdown: (expired on 2012-12-03 10:37:00)

)

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[Deadpool]

Oh, Deadpool (Mostly Arthur) can you explain your town read on Soul in detail, like point by point so I can understand what I'm missing because getting a solid-town read on them will help massively and Post 902 from them really really rubbed me the wrong way; They were the lead vote on Piggy and showed confidence the entire time so their initial reaction after the hammer being questioning someone else and continuing to scumhunt rather than thinking it was over feels unnatural and at this point barely anyone had posted meaning that Piggy-Scum would have been something they should still have believed in there.

455 reads extremely genuine and genuinely frustrated. I mean the anger can be a little over the top, but I can see OS getting angry with faraday like that. Things esp like “It's a fucking hydra. He asked me if it was okay to vote Sixty and I said yes,” read most genuine (yea I know the actual sentence is not really alignment indicative but the thought behind it reads town).

And as I already said I really don’t see 750 coming from scum. Where Mehdi says “Dead am I scum? I'm pushing thor is scum and am somehow a town read too?” just doesn’t seem to come from scum. I mean yes it can be trying to discredit me, but it is highly unlikely with how she was also saying I’m town. It seems genuinely trying to understand my viewpoint.

Also, 902 is in response to Thor's "We do Jesse tomorrow if there is a tomorrow though." Plus it seems like it's mostly just suspicious of Thor. And I don't really see it as them knowing that Piggy will flip town, in fact the whole sentence is more reading to me like "Wait thor who's jesse's partnered with if it's not piggy?" as in she still believes Piggyscum and saying something like "Who COULD Jess be partnered with if not obv piggy" Not sure if this makes sense but the sentence isn't really reading scummy to me.

[Thor665]

Also, 902 is in response to Thor's "We do Jesse tomorrow if there is a tomorrow though." Plus it seems like it's mostly just suspicious of Thor. And I don't really see it as them knowing that Piggy will flip town, in fact the whole sentence is more reading to me like "Wait thor who's jesse's partnered with if it's not piggy?" as in she still believes Piggyscum and saying something like "Who COULD Jess be partnered with if not obv piggy" Not sure if this makes sense but the sentence isn't really reading scummy to me.

I actually like this logic.

[Mehdi2277]

Duplicate of 1097 – callforjudgement

[Soul2277]

I don't understand how you grabbed the term buddying from? My Post 950 has zilch to do with either of them 'buddying' anyone but the point I'm drumming in is that them legitimately pushing hardcore for each others lynches and actually voting each other to follow through with it fairly strongly points against them being partners. And I see what you're saying about N and Jesse arguing but there's a difference between arguing and voting each other and arguing and not really voting each other, before this post of yours they weren't doing any of the actual pushing for the lynch of the other so I don't understand how you think Jesse / N is less likely than Jesse / Thor. But if you want to pretend that both are impossible then it would have to be Thor and N. So you haven't done what I've asked at all. I want flat out reasoning and links that make them likely partners not just stating that they haven't interacted much. And I haven't said anythings wrong with that pair but if it's the only team you think is plausible you should be relatively confident enough to put forward a case.

A. Buddying in reference to the votes being next to each other.
B. I've made my suspicions pretty clear. I could ask OS to write a wall case but honestly I just don't want to.
C. That was the reasoning. I think their constant arguing makes them unlikely to be a pair. You disagree since they didn't vote each other yet, but to me that's enough for the reasoning.

And what does 993 have to do with dead?

And mod could you delete the last post?

[Soul2277]

Caught up too, but really I'm still comfortable with all my reads.

Although curious on what are all the results of the meta searches? That and I'm still waiting to hear reg's reply on the rest of my meta since I don't remember it).

~Mehdi

[callforjudgement]

And mod could you delete the last post?

Done. (This post is a page grab in disguise.)