Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[pirate mollie]

Well first off, I don't think it is constructive to talk about pairings without flips and I think were better off not going down this road until at least D2.

maybe it isn't constructive for

you

but I play as I plz thanks.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-2): Shrimp85, Guile, Malakittens
Prohawk (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Guile (L-2): Adam-12
Code-X (L-4): Leviathan93
Pirate Mollie (L-4): ProHawk
Malakittens (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Code-X

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[pirate mollie]

Nice try Mantis

Long Posts

equal

Town.
Shots Posts

equal

Scum.

You will most likely not see walls come from me unless we make it to lylo and it is necessary to fish out the last scumbag. Regarding being riled, lead a wagon on me to L-1 and you will see me riled at the rest of my town buddies' foolish blindness.

@Mala - No Intent, Nor Desire oh astute one.

You along with Mollie fell into my trap - try not to be too befuddled

.

@Rest -

Does anyone

not

see the fishiness in Molly?

She won't put any heat back on me for catching her scumminess early on (in fact she tries to buddy up), until she gets something that she has backup on (Mala) and that appears scummy at first glance?

holy shit you are fucking retarded. I am going to have to reevaluate your skill level. still find you scummy though.

[pirate mollie]

few things i have wanted to comment on...

Levi

mafia talk time? they can do that?

I thought you could only do that during a night thing.

and go where mollie? hasn't the game just started?

as for being on the sight, I'm always on the sight or at least I always have the sight on tab on my computer even if i'm sleeping. that way its easy access to follow my games and see who post what and I can be updated faster and respond quicker.

and i think that Shrimp kind of had the right point here, when he said:

mafia talk time? they can do that? I thought you could only do that during a night thing. and go where mollie?

I understand that this can be seen as a response from a true townie, but this can just as easily be scum pretending not to know. (or even actually not knowing, he is new.)
The whole "go where mollie?" Is also pretty ridiculous... It's obvious Pirate Mollie did not mean to go to a certain location or anything.
To me it seems more like a noob claim.

^I was looking at the first post and thinking that it might be noob scum going overboard with appearing noob and asking just a whole bunch of questions (i bolded them)

@adam, I appreciate that. =)

and I agree with adam, I did not feel like Mala was being sarcastic towards me in voting me for not confirming when I should of. she felt like it was something scum would do possibly from her experience in playing the game.

though, I will say it was an innocent misunderstanding on her part

, because I know my reason for acting the way I did and stated it for y'all to see.

^my bold. leviathan... why do you assume that it is an innocent misunderstanding on Mala's part? You don't think she could be scum trying to paint you under a bad light? Are you scum, and know that she is town?

how are we out of the RVS stage? I have no idea who I want to lynch yet. but I will state what I believe from what we have.

Mala seems an adamant experienced scumhunter.
Adam seems to be innocent
Prohawk intimidates me but I have nothing

Shrimp just seems to be plain wrong about stuff

mollie seems to just jump on someone elses decision.
leviathan I state I am plain white townie.

This is my analysis.

^bolded. At this point, Shrimp had voted pirate mollie. Did you know that she was innocent, hence why you say he's wrong? or i guess he was also wrong about reading Mala's post as sarcastic as opposed to serious. But coule you expand on all of this?[/quote]

he bugs me cos it looks like he is trying to overplay the newb card. he is reminding me of felltoearth in the breaking bad game at tr and darkchilde in whatever that game was that I caught her out on her second post. lol, thinking you were scum in both of those games.

[pirate mollie]

^eta: also I can't think of a protown reason to keep levi in the game the only people who will want him around are scum.

[pirate mollie]

lol xost

What does xost mean??

xpost. didn't type in the p.

[pirate mollie]

Malakitten, why are you sticking up for Guille so much?

Not the best question to ask at this particular moment 9.9

Maybe we can shelve this until after Guille starts posting regularly?

Pretty please?

I was trying to respond to this earlier.. but, it confused me too much. i wanted to ask you why that question to mala should be shelved? but since you seemed so adamant about not asking this question, i didn't actually want to ask you.

Simply because she would answer it with more defense of someone that should be defending themselves.

Vote for stopping discussion is lol's

Be caught up soon.

not really when you consider that scum are the ones who either want to stop discussion or steer it.

[pirate mollie]

scum tend to bump against the tide

Wholeheartedly disagree.

scum tend to be stickier with their foses and their votes while steering the game in the direction they want it to go. gee, who does this remind me of.

[Adam-12]

Ok work is ramping up here. I won't be able to catch up for a couple of hours. One major thing I can say is that now that I have had a chance to re-read Guille's post I have been able to understand it more completely. He has actually done what I wanted him to do; commit to posting regularly with content. I didn't catch that drift on my first skim and response. Another thing that has happened is that upon reviewing all of Mantis's posts, I find her a scum hunter after my own heart. I have watched her cycle through each and every player one after the other and scum hunt them all. Therefore I am moving her into the town list.

The chances of finding two scum in the two lowest posters of the game is not very good in my estimation. Therefore at least one of my town reads is probably wrong. After I finish catching up I will be re-evaluating my reads to find which direction I will need to push.

One thing I don't like is how Guille has not commented on the major events of the day. He is holding his comments to his reads with not much else. I would ask him to demonstrate that he has read the thread by giving us a summary of the goings on.

[Adam-12]

No, first time together. Adam, whats your read on mollie?

I don't like the process she went through to vote Levi and

if she is scum I read her as very calm and collected scum

. Her demeanor would indicate that is possible for her.

lol, where the fuck would you get that idea.

From the way you handled the probing from Hawk.

[ProHawk]

scum tend to be stickier with their foses and their votes while steering the game in the direction they want it to go. gee, who does this remind me of.

Thanks for proving my point. Scum don't bump and grind, they blend and hide.

holy shit you are fucking retarded. I am going to have to reevaluate your skill level. still find you scummy though.

And I shall have to re-evaluate your intelligence level.

[pirate mollie]

thanks adam

eta: lol hawk boy, so would you say blending and hiding is what I am doing? can't wait to hear this response. you just shot ur whole dumb case on me down, lol.

but truthfully it depends on the player.

[Adam-12]

@Mod: Can we please prod Code

[Adam-12]

@Mala: Ok those are interesting points about Blacksmith Gate but my query about Role PM case pushing was about the way the Hawk was voting for her which gave her an early town read on Hawk;

what do you think of her reasoning on that

?

The speed of his switch I don't think is the issue which is why I asked "How and Why" he made the switch.

Have you examined that

?

I tend to agree with you on rolefishing btw. I have caught scum doing that.

You like to lurk?? That is anti-town at best. At this point Guille is active lurking and needs to continue to post content to rectify that. So far he has gotten a free pass for skipping RVS while posting elsewhere and scum-skimming a single post with 10 pages of content.

[Adam-12]

She won't put any heat back on me for catching her scumminess early on (in fact she tries to buddy up), until she gets something that she has backup on (Mala) and that appears scummy at first glance?

Hawk, what do you mean by this? I don't get your Mala reference.

[Adam-12]

but you've said that it will create a false sense of security. But just because you say that, i don;'t see how it will create that. how is it much different from stating your scum reads and who you think could be certain scum?

The problem is we don't have flips and are uncertain of alignments. Using "pairing" to scum hunt without scum flips is a false scum hunting technique; its illusory. Scum hunting is based on scum tells by individuals, when the individual actually flips scum then its safe to hunt by pairings.

yes but it also gives you the chance to step back and see who has interacted with who. for example, i would say that you and shrimp are not scum together. someone may also say that mollie and i aren't scum together.

i'm not going to argue it though, i think i can see somewhat what you mean.. in that, it's best to just focus on one person at a time... and being that that can even be difficult in itself (to find one scum).. that it's even more wifom to look for 2 at once.

but still it's still good to look at who has kept a distance from one another.

Ya, we pretty much can't help having those thoughts run through our head but its best to keep them on a leash so we stay sane and grounded in actual scum tells. Its also an easy way for scum create cases because you only have to show simple connections or lack of them based on unknown alignments.

[Majiffy]

Code-X has been prodded.

[Adam-12]

Da fuck?

So because I was trying to avoid a hammer on Guile so he could post and for Code to post it's opportunistic?

1) Do you believe its bad for town to lurk?
2) What is the best way to deal with lurkers?
3) Have you ever heard of "pressuring lurkers"?

If you could please answer the 3 questions above honestly, confining your answers to your personal views on the questions asked.

[Adam-12]

eta: I do like your pointing that adam is asking loaded questions though cos that is indeed what he was doing loaded questions can be pretty scummy since the whole purpose of them is to spin in a fake scumtell later.

Or maybe, I dunno, scum hunt? >.<

Please see my post on the matter.

[Adam-12]

Malakitten, why are you sticking up for Guille so much?

Not the best question to ask at this particular moment 9.9

Maybe we can shelve this until after Guille starts posting regularly?

Pretty please?

I was trying to respond to this earlier.. but, it confused me too much. i wanted to ask you why that question to mala should be shelved? but since you seemed so adamant about not asking this question, i didn't actually want to ask you.

Simply because she would answer it with more defense of someone that should be defending themselves.

Vote for stopping discussion is lol's

Be caught up soon.

not really when you consider that scum are the ones who either want to stop discussion or steer it.

LOL. Are you examining the particular case here? She was clearly defending someone that needed to defend themselves. I don't need someone else providing answers to explain a suspect's behavior when I am waiting for those answers from that suspect, so yes its total lol's in this case. There was also no reason for this behavior as he only had one vote against him.

[Shrimp85]

I would say he and hawk boy make a cute couple.

I think Malakitten and Prohawk look like they could be a scum pair.

Just a tip... don't team hunt. It rarely ever catches two scum at once.

mantis that is why I got paranoid about you (and I still might again)

And I might again? Sounds like this is some excuse to vote for Mantis again in the future, this way you can say.
"no, I already told you that I might go back on voting him, check this post ".

And I had no intent to hammer.

Then please don't pretend to, it's very confusing.

-==========================================================================-

You didn't just lurk, you also did a drive-by post after a full 10 pages of activity, which becomes active-lurking which is entirely different and scummy.

Hahaha, omfg, dude Guille2015 did indeed post every day xD

It is really tinfoil hat without some flips (specifically scum flips). It creates a false sense of certainty and moves the scum hunting analysis into the realm of "pairings" which is deceitful. Its wine you don't wanna drink until you have something solid to go off of (scum flips).

Say more stuff like this.

The problem is we don't have flips and are uncertain of alignments. Using "pairing" to scum hunt without scum flips is a false scum hunting technique; its illusory. Scum hunting is based on scum tells by individuals, when the individual actually flips scum then its safe to hunt by pairings.

Hunting by pairings is like eating donuts, you get a quick high but ultimately no nutrition and a sugar/carb crash. Individual scum tells are the meat and potatoes of scum hunting.

just not three times...

What don't you understand about he doesn't need anyone to defend him and he can defend himself!?

Really? Because while Guille2015 is gone and we let you ramble on with BS, then you might get other people confused.
But now I see that you already understand.

She was clearly defending someone that needed to defend themselves.

The chances of finding two scum in the two lowest posters of the game is not very good in my estimation.

-=============================================================================-

scum tend to bump against the tide

not really when you consider that scum are the ones who either want to stop discussion or steer it.

scum tend to be stickier with their foses and their votes while steering the game in the direction they want it to go.

Here you're telling us how scum think?
Is this some kind of glitch in the game? all scum think alike?

also I can't think of a protown reason to keep levi in the game the only people who will want him around are scum.

And now everybody who doesn't vote Leviathan93 are scum... hmm

-=============================================================================-

The reads I'm now getting from Adam-12 is that he is either scum, or just a very lowsy town.
Please don't see this as an insult... it's my honest read, because some things you say are very correct, while others are just completely false.

Now, from Pirate Mollie I am

not

getting any town read whatsoever.
From the PR claim, to the constant OMGUS.
And now her WIFOM's on how scum would act.

Nah, I think I see scum.

UNVOTE: Adam-12
VOTE: Pirate mollie

[Adam-12]

Ok caught up.

So, Mantis has been moved to the town category. This means that most likely one of my town reads is incorrect. Of the town reads I have, I am not willing to consider Hawk, Levi, Mantis or Shrimp.

That leaves Mala & Mollie.

Mala -- At first I was really turned off by her summary post (#166) which really sounded off with her suspicion of Mollie & Vote for Hawk. Later however she explains the Hawk vote and unvotes which looks genuine to me because I can understand the lure of the strong meta pull for Hawk. She didn't seem to see how Guille was active lurking even though he posted elsewhere on this site without posting in this game and when he did finally make his first post, it was apparent that he clearly skimmed. She then goes over the top defending Guille against pro-town pressuring even to the point of saying she likes to lurk as town and going in-your-face yelling about it even when he only had one vote on him. I find this behavior bizarre but am hard pressed to believe that (or even explain how) she would do this as scum; the only explanation I have is that she has some kind of affinity with Guille having played with him before and being in a game he is modding and so for her it became personal and beyond the scope of this particular game. She is queried by Mantis about her odd recent postings and apparent lack of scum hunting and replies that she was reaction testing; ultimately I think I buy this because this game is showing itself difficult to figure out and I think she is experiencing some of the same frustration that I have been. Her vote for me for stopping discussion is just bad but I have a set of questions set out for her which should help me understand it better. Ultimately I think its just a residue of her defense of Guille which I actively opposed her on. So with everything taken into account, I am finding it hard to paint a scum picture with Mala.

Mollie -- Upon my re-examination of Mollie I did come across something I missed earlier but stands out to me now. Across many of her posts she seems preoccupied with being lynched and declaring that she is not scum. These declarations have also been accompanied by AtE which I found odd; such as, "When I flip re-examine this" and "I am looking to be the next lynch, I can see things going that way" and "Let me post these reads before people follow Hawk in lynching me". Her vote for Hawk had no explanation. She also directed the tracker/watcher in post #247. She also tends to describe her behavior as scum to show herself as town (self meta); such as, "I WoT as scum" and others. What I liked about Mollie was her level head, strong demeanor & mafia skills and these traits created a town profile in my mind that sort of hid these other subtle signs of scum-conscious behavior. The easy scum tells are usually the ones that result in a D1 lynch of a townie. I am always in favor of the more subtle tells because they're the ones that tend to catch scum. I think a vote here is in order.

Regarding Guille, I expect him to honor his expressed intention to post regularly with substantial content and would ask that he give a summary of the major events of the day (Mala's RVS Levi case, Blacksmith Gate, Mollie-Mantis Meta, Myself vs. Shrimp, Hawk vs. Mollie and anything else of note that he finds). I am not concerned very much about his case against me as every one of my questions have been designed to hunt scum and with substantiation of such, the discussion should move elsewhere.

Unvote, Vote Mollie

[Adam-12]

Now that I think about it, I think that RVS tell on Molly does show scum-conscious voting behavior and both Hawk & I were correct in noting it.

[guille2015]

1) He completely missed RVS
2) He posted in other games while this game was active
3) He finally posted here with a post that was an obvious skim and light on content

Let me get this out of the way before I comply with Adam's demands and my promise of giving full reads today.

1) Well, It happens. especially if RVS is over on the first post of the game. Post #14. As a matter of fact you acknowledge this in post #18. If you disagree you need to review what RVS means.

2) This is factually incorrect. The last confirmation happened at "Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:40 pm" by Prohawk on #13. My last post on the site for that day was "Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:06 am" prior to the start of the game. My next post on the site after the start of the game was post #140 for this game on "Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:33 am". If you want to continue with this thread of inquiry, notice that all of my posts after this are comprised of posts to this game and the game I am currently modding. It's a matter of time and availability. As a matter of fact, I just remember that I have completely neglected another game I'm in, and after posting this, I have to go post there to avoid a prod.

3) This is subjective so there is not much I can say about this. I agree on it being light in content, but it had enough content to justify my vote.

I'll get to my "content" posts later today.

[Adam-12]

LOL. Good point. You got me. I was incorrectly using RVS as synonymous with "early game".

Thank you for clarifying your posting history.

Glad you're committed to posting in this game and that is what is important.

[Adam-12]

Ok that leaves Guille who has posted on site but not here.

This post is where I checked your posting history and found you had posted elsewhere but as far as I am concerned, this is moot because you are not a lurker.

However, Code is another issue. I am looking forward to his slot being replaced which should happen in the next 24 hours. I think it makes sense to allow his replacement to post before ending the day.