Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[Adam-12]

This list of anti-town statements was generated subsequent to a wagon being formed on you:

already knew I would most likely be lynched I have played enough games I can see where the herd is going called it earlier

This is a defeatist attitude that is not helpful to town.

my game is going to look scummy cos I don't care what I look like.

Town doesn't say this.

also I do not mind getting lynched

Town doesn't say this.

I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team

Yes, but only as a LAST DITCH EFFORT for town. Town doesn't say this the way you have expressed it here.

like really I am okay with getting lynched.

Town doesn't say this.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-3): Guile, Malakittens
Leviathan93 (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Code-X (L-4): Leviathan93
Pirate Mollie (L-2): ProHawk, Shrimp85, Adam-12
Malakittens (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Code-X

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

I didn't see any vote changes on the previous page but I'm also one foot out the door so if I made any mistakes lemme know in bold and I'll fix them when I drunkenly stumble in the door tonight.

[Adam-12]

You are not a derp, I don't see how you can possibly believe that being lynched as town is good for the "town team". This is manipulative cog-dis.

[Malakittens]

Alright. Going to be v/la til Monday night. Got a bunch of tests to study for and work this weekend.
Ill try and post a little bit, but not certain.

[pirate mollie]

This list of anti-town statements was generated subsequent to a wagon being formed on you:

already knew I would most likely be lynched I have played enough games I can see where the herd is going called it earlier

This is a defeatist attitude that is not helpful to town.

my game is going to look scummy cos I don't care what I look like.

Town doesn't say this.

also I do not mind getting lynched

Town doesn't say this.

I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team

Yes, but only as a LAST DITCH EFFORT for town. Town doesn't say this the way you have expressed it here.

like really I am okay with getting lynched.

Town doesn't say this.

town does

too

say this cos I am saying this right now. your repetition does not make your statement true. I take it you didn't look at the titanium game on this site did you or you did and you are scum who is trying to spin it. do you know who fights for their survival? scum do it, it fucking never fails. my team's win condition is not dependent on my survivability but scum's certainly is. I would rather not be around for end of game wifom with this much aggro drawn on me so early on trying to paint this as scummy makes you look disgustingly scummy.

mantis why the fuck do you have this guy in your town pile I don't get this.

You are not a derp, I don't see how you can possibly believe that being lynched as town is good for the "town team". This is manipulative cog-dis.

see above. when I am town I think of maximising the options

for

town it might be an unfamiliar concept to you if you don't know about game strategy. you do not want any player in endgame who will compromise an objective and by compromising an objective I mean someone who has a bunch of suspicion on their head. I bet hawk boy knows what I am talking about.

wtf ever I am done talking to you unless you actually have something not scummy to say cos right now you look like pondscum right now if you had a brain cell you would be voting for levi or hawk boy to see what happens.

Alright. Going to be v/la til Monday night. Got a bunch of tests to study for and work this weekend.
Ill try and post a little bit, but not certain.

this sucks donkey balls.

[Adam-12]

If a town player doesn't want suspicion on their head (a +town sentiment within reason) then they shouldn't make statements such as, "My game is going to be scummy because I don't care how I look". Your logic is self-defeating and self-incriminating.

[Adam-12]

Taking your logic to its natural conclusion, you should be D1 lynched every game UNLESS your gameplay is naturally pro-town and you don't need to be concerned with how you look but you say, "My game IS gonna look scummy" in which case you aren't in the realm of logic at all.

[Adam-12]

Keep in mind, your anti-town attitude is not the primary reason I am voting you but it definitely is the reason I am staying on your wagon until it lynches.

[Adam-12]

I hope people can see how terribly circular her logic is here, if you can't just ask me, I will go off on it.

In a sentence:

If you want to help the town team, then care enough about your play to post as town does!

Don't sit here and tell us, "My image is compromised and so its better for the town if I'm lynched" when its your own admitted fault!

Its just more AtE plain and simple.

[pirate mollie]

Taking your logic to its natural conclusion, you should be D1 lynched every game UNLESS your gameplay is naturally pro-town and you don't need to be concerned with how you look but you say, "My game IS gonna look scummy" in which case you aren't in the realm of logic at all.

my game is protown cos after a while people learn that I naturally arrive on scum at some point but it is true it takes a stronger player to pull the retards off of me and circumvent scum. my play tends to attract retards and scum who are looking for an easy lynch.

you fucked up adam you know I am not scum and now you are reaching in order to mainstay your vote. you should look up what "tanking" means.

by what you have posted I am either teh ultimate scum queen or what I am does not make sense to you what does not make sense to me is that you are trying to have it both ways which is why I am fosing you hardcore.

[pirate mollie]

I hope people can see how terribly circular her logic is here, if you can't just ask me, I will go off on it.

In a sentence:

If you want to help the town team, then care enough about your play to post as town does!

Don't sit here and tell us, "My image is compromised and so its better for the town if I'm lynched" when its your own admitted fault!

Its just more AtE plain and simple.

I am I can't be responsible for your own idiocy in that you might have no idea what you are looking at there is no fighting ignorance when peeps are determined to stay that way.

[pirate mollie]

seriously thinking you are scum adam.

[Adam-12]

My case on Mollie boils down to:

1) Her RVS scum-aware vote for Shrimp
2) Her obsession with being lynched & declaring she is not scum
3) Her directing of the Tracker/Watcher
4) Cog-dis & AtE in her defense when wagoned
5) Her anti-town attitude when wagoned

Feel free to inquire about any point.

[pirate mollie]

My case on Mollie boils down to:

1) Her RVS scum-aware vote for Shrimp

lol you are making this shit up

2) Her obsession with being lynched & declaring she is not scum

the obsession is on your part with how sticky you are with your vote despite by your logic you should be counter.

3) Her directing of the Tracker/Watcher

this is not a scumtell more of a town tell HTH

4) Cog-dis & AtE in her defense when wagoned

is this your first mafia game? lol

5) Her anti-town attitude when wagoned

my anti-town attitude is working from the premise that as town I would not be okay with my lynch. hope everyone sees the flaw in this theory.

Feel free to inquire about any point.

I did!

[guille2015]

Ok, lets see what Pirate Mollie has been doing this game.

*I actually liked her vote on Levi starting the game. Here vote on Shrimp was bad though. Not only did she not let enough time for the effect of her Levi vote (pressure) to settle in, there was no followup on shrimp afterwards.
*Pointing out inconsistencies in PMs (66,71) is a strategy that both scum and town do. However, town don't usually make mistakes when pointing out inconsistencies. The blacksmith thing was is terminology from somewhere else and therefor irrelevant. Mollie makes tries to make it relevant.
*In post 124, reason to vote for Shrimp > OMGUS.
*The vote for Mantis in post 119 is iffy. I don't think that is a good reason to vote for someone. The worrysome part is that this goes uncontested for a while and Mollie wants other to vote for Mantis (154). The other part that I noticed was as follows:

is this a question for the sake of a question?

maybe you heard it from mantis adam in the QT!

@Shrimp: So is your vote serious or not, I can't seem to tell...

If you read his vote post he at the same time mentions his vote as RVS in a playful manner & as a serious vote for a scum tell. I hold that as disingenuous voting where he can swing responsibility both ways. So, no not a useless question at all.

It looked like shrimp maybe voted molly just as a joke at first. but then, when it was brought to his attention that malakitten was actually serious about her vote on leviathan for not confirming right away, and then saw molly's post where she somewhat furthered the idea by asking mala if it was because she thought leviathan wanted more time in pre scum chat... then his vote turned to a serious one.

i don't know if that makes sense.

guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't find shrimp all that suspicious. and i am wondering about molly myself.

and why is this exactly??? in the 2 years we have been playing together the only time you try to leave me out to rot is when you are scum.

VOTE: mantis

I noticed that the highlighted text was placed there by Mollie. I don't particularly understand the intention.
*The deal between mantis and Mollie makes me think that it would be unlikely for them to be scum buddies. I can't tell who had the upper hand here.
*I think her vote for ProHawk is a stretch. She is consistent though. There is little explanation behind this one too. I can see where it came from though.
*Post 247 has reads. Changed her opinion of Mantis. Which is normal, but for reasons I don't see. All the reads are noncommittal.
*I like her post 250.
*Post 317 is a response to me. I guess you are saying that you think I'm scummy to unsure. Your not really giving me much to work with. Let's see. I found this extremely funny:

this is your first decent question so far and it also contradicts question #2 since obviously I do not OMGUS and automatically get sus of whoever votes me!
it is a

gut

read but I did like his "are you the watcher or tracker immune ack ack ack" post. it looks town motivated to me.

...pretty sure hawk boy is town and thinking mantis is scum. it isn't based on

gut

like you tried to insinuate it was more that his "ack ack are watcher or tracker immune?" question...

there is a whole thread where surely you can come up with something better than "oh I think she is scum cos of a

gut

feeling", lol. you can pull when there has been a lynch or 2 but to pull that at the start of the game is pretty lame.

*Post 318 you agree with me about Adam's Loaded questions thing. Makes me wonder. When I ISOed him, the loaded question thing was less severe than I previously thought.

I'm going to stop here. I'll continue this tomorrow with the Prohawk vs Mollie thing, Which I have to pay much closer attention than I can at this moment. In general, all those points are minor really. I've read her with a very critical and biased eye. The conjunction of everything is what gives me the gut feeling. I kinda understand it though. Will finish up tomorrow. I think I know were my vote will go tomorrow.

[pirate mollie]

^scum

[Mantisdreamz]

^scum

I was just going to ask you if you thought he looked scum with that post.

[borkjerfkin]

I want to comment on issue du jour (Mollie vs Adam) before I branch out at all:

1) Mollie -- why's your vote on Leviathan when you're pretty adamantly calling Adam scum? You're not even attempting to push your own wagon, and since I'm reading it as PoE due to #415, it really makes little sense considering your past few posts and the gamestate that your vote would be where it is. What gives?
2) Adam -- why are 2), 4), and 5) scum tells and not personality tells? What does 1) even mean?

[Adam-12]

I want to comment on issue du jour (Mollie vs Adam) before I branch out at all:

1) Mollie -- why's your vote on Leviathan when you're pretty adamantly calling Adam scum? You're not even attempting to push your own wagon, and since I'm reading it as PoE due to #415, it really makes little sense considering your past few posts and the gamestate that your vote would be where it is. What gives?
2) Adam -- why are 2), 4), and 5) scum tells and not personality tells? What does 1) even mean?

Number one is her post where she asks Mala if Levi was trying to stall the confirmation. Both Hawk and I noticed it as scummy and I personally labeled it as "asking for permission". Its overly self-conscious. Of course we are talking about RVS here so obviously no major case but sometimes RVS tells pan out as true and I think that is what happened in this case.

I suppose Number 2 could be a personality tell except I see it as a scum technique to allay suspicion; it worked on me for quite awhile.

Number 4 revolves around cog-dis which is more of a sign of a scum mind that overcompensates for its known guilt and when discovered in a player's defense, is a sign that player is scum. For the AtE its the same thing.

Number 5 basically boils down to a "too scummy to be scum" defense or "in your face scum" defense. I think I even detest that even more than lurking and I clearly think she is using this a way to excuse away her behavior and suspicion.

[Adam-12]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

[Mantisdreamz]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

++

[Mantisdreamz]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

i think that she's town. pretty certain actually.

[Mantisdreamz]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

++

^was cleaning my keyboard, and had this post quoted. did not mean to submit.

[ProHawk]

@Maj, Guille unvoted Adam in #360

[pirate mollie]

I want to comment on issue du jour (Mollie vs Adam) before I branch out at all:

1) Mollie -- why's your vote on Leviathan when you're pretty adamantly calling Adam scum? You're not even attempting to push your own wagon, and since I'm reading it as PoE due to #415, it really makes little sense considering your past few posts and the gamestate that your vote would be where it is. What gives?

I don't think my vote will make a case better than what I have already said. tbh I am flirting with the idea he is scum I am not committed to it. like I want him to convince me otherwise cos I think my lynch will make him look bad and that is not what I want for my team.

frigging do an iso on hawk boy and give me your input why don't you.

[ProHawk]

ProHawk: Does me being quiet = scummy? You played before with me and you know exactly what I'm doing.

I am disappointed in this. Nuff Said. Please re-read #378. Quiet

equal

scummy. Quiet wasn't the key word, Mollie was.

Mollie! You almost took my advice, but what I

really

like is how you bait Adam into tunneling you with this AtE "you think im scum but treat me like town" BS, and then accuse him of being sticky. Its quite comical indeed. Your AtE attacks and cries are like a spotlight in my face, can't see much of your content around the blinding light. Dial it back a notch or two. You are looking like a promising lynch today, but I did find one gem in all of the scummy fluff.

guille

got super cranky

and looks like he is

playing it safe

cos why has he not followed his "gut bad pizza read" read and just vote me already cos there is the possibility of

knowing how I will flip

that's why. that is what I mean by playing it safe.

ALL of his posts (few I might add) are like this. What is the deal with these fence sitters this game? Guille, you are taking your sweet time which just may be how you play, but its lookin bad to me. I would much rather see you take time to compile a complete post, instead of leaving us with bits and pieces and have to wait a whole day to get part B.

Sorry Mollie, its time for a new angle.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guille

Anyone else notice how he managed to make it all the way to L-1, with my voicings of impending doom causing the not so innocent to lash out in anger and he

fails to even mention

anything about it?

Well, there is more where scum Guille is concerned, lets see if anyone else can find the clues...

Guille its time for some real fire beneath your wings. Wagon Ho!