In post 600, Malakittens wrote:Adam.. Do you have a finished town game, here or another site?
In post 601, Adam-12 wrote:Sorry for all the posts I was catching up overnight. It was my fault for being lazy and not keeping up. I am still 4 pages back. Going to sleep now.
Just want to say that game state over the weekend suffered from the following things: Mala VLA, lack of Levi posting & replacement of Code. I expect that these things will be rectified by this evening. Even though we are at 25 pages for D1, I think as long as Bork & Guille keep posting, we will be doing very well and can safely proceed even farther into D1.
In post 595, Adam-12 wrote:In post 423, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 376, Adam-12 wrote:I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:
but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose
This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?
My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.
manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?
Ok, I missed that you asked that question while quoting my post.
The cog-dis is how you use the faulty notion of "scum perfume" as an excuse for looking scummy. I would expect this defense from someone with less than 9 games, not somebody with over 90. The dissonance comes with other of your defense when you demonstrate deep knowledge of scum play. You can't possibly expect me to believe that somehow because you played scum your last 3 games that you can't help looking scummy; if you look scummy as scum then you are either a newb or scum trying to pull the same sort of defense that you are trying to pull now. Based on your skill set, its just not possible that "scum perfume" even exists in your game and your using it as a defense shows a scum mindset that is trying to overcompensate for its guilt with a faulty excuse.
In post 466, Mantisdreamz wrote:In post 462, guille2015 wrote:
@Pirate Mollie: The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game. I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.
i've heard her use grooming countless times before.
Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him. She is inconsistent. She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.
i like how you added in that Adam (who is most likely town) has a good case on her. maybe you are buddying up to him?
In post 468, pirate mollie wrote:In post 465, Mantisdreamz wrote:i think guille is making a huge case on mollie because, i think scum were banking on her getting lynched. and they want to keep it that way.
I think so too!!!!
(...)
guille what exactly are you asking about grooming I don't understand your question could you plz clarify.
In post 471, borkjerfkin wrote:K I'm as caught up as I'm gonna get.
Levi is town for stuff, Shrimp's probably town for being just on a totally different page than everyone else, Adam's town for the sincerity of his case but I don't like that case save that I think Mollie's vote on shrimp was bad. Otherwise I think it's confirmation bias in the sense that you're giving explanations of why scum-mollie would be AtEing all over the place -- that's circular logic.
Guille is weird. The conclusions in #462 (Adam's case being good) don't follow from the rest of that post (basically that Mollie does logical fallacies and ad-hominem, neither of which are scumtells).
Mollie's only bad points so far have been her voting patterns -- and that's honestly something I only really want to delve into if we get a scum flip. I'd sooner vote Guille over Mollie, but:
VOTE: ProHawk
#257 makes me wanna dig out that picture where the dude says "joke's on them I was only faking being retarded" because that's pretty much what you're doing here. Everyone you quoted in that post's reactions were some variation on "what the hell are you doing?" Mollie's was just a little blunter than the others -- and you didn't lambaste Mala for having essentially the same exact reaction. His jump off Mollie in #449 is awful especially with the tone of the rest of that post pointing to Mollie being scum and being dodgy about exactly what about Guille is bad to him.
@Mollie -- I'm Code. Why am I answering how you felt about him?
In post 472, ProHawk wrote:Bork, it's too bad you don't have a clue. But you're town so not much I can do about that.
Guille wrote:Bork, logical fallacies and ad-hominem, are in fact scumtells
Guille wrote:
or at the very least bad town play as they tend to reach the wrong conclusion.
Guille wrote:
About the ad-hominem, I've been in this site long enough to know that I cannot use that as an argument for scummyness. I mention it in the previous post not as a way to say that Mollie is scum, but rather that Mollie's arguments are not good.
In post 608, borkjerfkin wrote:Guille wrote:Bork, logical fallacies and ad-hominem, are in fact scumtells
No.
Guille wrote:
or at the very least bad town play as they tend to reach the wrong conclusion.
Yes.
Guille wrote:
About the ad-hominem, I've been in this site long enough to know that I cannot use that as an argument for scummyness. I mention it in the previous post not as a way to say that Mollie is scum, but rather that Mollie's arguments are not good.
This is pretty waffly, considering you're voting her. If she's scum, her arguments are being put forth to further a scum agenda, yeah? I don't see how you're showing that you believe that.
In post 497, Shrimp85 wrote:Talking about grooming, if grooming is such a scum tell, then what's mantisdreamz doing in post 488.
mantisdreamz wrote:
also adam and shrimp, if you think i am town at all.. can you please trust my read on mollie?
I'm not going to agree with your read on mollie.
In post206you say you have a huge scum read on mollie, and then later on you want to team up.
Totally switchy.
In post381you even tell adam to take his vote off of Mollie, because if he doesn't you're calling him scum.
Sounds like a threat.
And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.
I do not agree with almost anything you have been doing lately, so no, I will not trust your read on mollie.
Pirate mollie, what happened to your oh so clear scum read on Leviathan93?
And in post 435 and 439 you seem pretty confident about your scum read on Adam-12, but instead of vote for him,
a couple posts later you just switch to vote Guille2015 because you agree with Mantisdreamz, that he is making a huge case on you.
So, it's an OMGUS.
And you say thispirate mollie wrote:
yeah I pretty much insult everybody most of the time I usually don't mean any of it if you find yourself wanting to reach through the computer and strangle me you can pretty much bank on me being town if you find yourself liking me and thinking I am making sense you should probably be worried.
For the so manyeth time you WIFOM. You are trying to prove to me that you are town because if you were scum, you would make more sense???
You are definitely number one scum read, and Mantisdreamz is climbing up that ladder too.
your excuse for team working is because you have apparently played so many games together.
I don't trust this at all, I'm going to ask you one question.
Do you two know each other personally?
It might be that one or even both are scum or town, but that you two would work together regardless of each others alignments.
If you did know each other personally, there would be no stopping from you two communicating outside the game.
Which would ruin the game completely.
Leviathan93,
can you please place a new post with your reads?
In post 498, Shrimp85 wrote:@Guille2015 , what do you think about what I mentioned in my last post?
Please ignore this line of thinking. This is completely Irrelevant, unprovable, and I doubt that they would even attempt something like this.Do you two know each other personally?
It might be that one or even both are scum or town, but that you two would work together regardless of each others alignments.
If you did know each other personally, there would be no stopping from you two communicating outside the game.
Which would ruin the game completely.
In post 606, guille2015 wrote:Let me try replying page by page. Should be faster and more concise. I have read through to the end already, so I might reference things to come.
In post 466, Mantisdreamz wrote:In post 462, guille2015 wrote:
@Pirate Mollie: The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game. I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.
i've heard her use grooming countless times before.
Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him. She is inconsistent. She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.
i like how you added in that Adam (who is most likely town) has a good case on her. maybe you are buddying up to him?
In post 468, pirate mollie wrote:In post 465, Mantisdreamz wrote:i think guille is making a huge case on mollie because, i think scum were banking on her getting lynched. and they want to keep it that way.
I think so too!!!!
(...)
guille what exactly are you asking about grooming I don't understand your question could you plz clarify.
What benefit would mafia get from lynching Mollie. If she is the closest to figuring out who is scum, then lynching her now is the last thing mafia want done.
I placed the grooming question outside of my reads. Hence it's not part of my reads directly. I do want to know about it though, because this is something that I use as a scum-hunting tool. Although I call it buddying. From what I read from Mollie she considers it as a scum tell. Which is fine. I noticed the times It has been used with me. Although your defenition of grooming is different.
The reason I asked is because I don't have time to read through that game to get to the information I need. Best to ask the source. What I want is how accurate was identifying the grooming in that game to finding scum. Is it an effective marker?
I am cautious of shrimp for this reason, but Mala I can safely say is clear for me. I recognize this play of mala as her town meta. Could she have improved to the point that I would think this way. That's a possibility, but it's not something I am concerned at this point.
The reason I want to understand Mollie with her use of grooming as a marker for scum, is because she has pointed out several instances of grooming towards me and yet she thinks I am scum. By what I understand the grooming marker is reflective of Scum grooming Town. If I am wrong correct me.
In post 471, borkjerfkin wrote:K I'm as caught up as I'm gonna get.
Levi is town for stuff, Shrimp's probably town for being just on a totally different page than everyone else, Adam's town for the sincerity of his case but I don't like that case save that I think Mollie's vote on shrimp was bad. Otherwise I think it's confirmation bias in the sense that you're giving explanations of why scum-mollie would be AtEing all over the place -- that's circular logic.
Guille is weird. The conclusions in #462 (Adam's case being good) don't follow from the rest of that post (basically that Mollie does logical fallacies and ad-hominem, neither of which are scumtells).
Mollie's only bad points so far have been her voting patterns -- and that's honestly something I only really want to delve into if we get a scum flip. I'd sooner vote Guille over Mollie, but:
VOTE: ProHawk
#257 makes me wanna dig out that picture where the dude says "joke's on them I was only faking being retarded" because that's pretty much what you're doing here. Everyone you quoted in that post's reactions were some variation on "what the hell are you doing?" Mollie's was just a little blunter than the others -- and you didn't lambaste Mala for having essentially the same exact reaction. His jump off Mollie in #449 is awful especially with the tone of the rest of that post pointing to Mollie being scum and being dodgy about exactly what about Guille is bad to him.
@Mollie -- I'm Code. Why am I answering how you felt about him?
In post 472, ProHawk wrote:Bork, it's too bad you don't have a clue. But you're town so not much I can do about that.
I don't think that this posts clears him as town. I don't see scum intent however. But he is wrong though. Prohawk wants me lynched, and he says that I am likely scum with Prohawk. This game is not a game that benefits mafia if they bus each other on day one. Any serious intent of lynching between players is an indication that those two players are likely not scum buddies. In which case his argument falls short. Prohawk is probably town. Bork I am uncertain of yet.
Bork, logical fallacies and ad-hominem, are in fact scumtells or at the very least bad town play as they tend to reach the wrong conclusion. About the ad-hominem, I've been in this site long enough to know that I cannot use that as an argument for scummyness. I mention it in the previous post not as a way to say that Mollie is scum, but rather that Mollie's arguments are not good.
In post 611, ProHawk wrote:Mollie, just one question for you that should clear things up. Does a square scum fit into a round hole?
In post 615, ProHawk wrote:I figured you would like my question. Although I have a general starting point for who I view as scum-candidates, not all scum fit nicely into a picturesque box of equals. Therefore, my ideal picture of scum is not the end-all solution to finding scum. You cannot paint yourself as town because you don't fit my definition, and trying to say I am scum because I am going after someone that doesn't fit exactly with my ideal picture is just as ludicrous.
In post 613, pirate mollie wrote:Spoiler:
wth bold: how does that even make sense. scum will want anybody lynched who is not on there team especially if that person is fosing them. I am seriously not understanding your logic here.
guille2015 wrote:Mollie: If I were to trust that you are town and right. Other than voting for myself, who should I vote for?
In post 500, Mantisdreamz wrote:In post 497, Shrimp85 wrote:
And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.
no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc
note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.
In post 512, Adam-12 wrote:If Mantis is correct (I think she is town), Hawk-Mollie are a strong town voting block and I remember how that felt early on. I actually liked that feeling.
At this point, Bork is whey scummier than Mollie.
I believe Prohawk is serious.In post 513, Adam-12 wrote:Besides this Guille thing was just another probe, amirite?
In post 595, Adam-12 wrote:In post 423, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 376, Adam-12 wrote:I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:
but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose
This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?
My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.
Adam's logic and reasoning in this case makes a lot of sense I feel. That much experience MUST mean that mistakes appear less in their game play. yes it is always a possibility to make a mistake now and again, but to have the perfume of being scummy? no. you know your alignment in a game. why would you purposely act scummy if you are town. a strategy? i don't see a logical strategy helping town win if people think one of the town is scummy and wants to lynch them.
manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?
Ok, I missed that you asked that question while quoting my post.
The cog-dis is how you use the faulty notion of "scum perfume" as an excuse for looking scummy. I would expect this defense from someone with less than 9 games, not somebody with over 90. The dissonance comes with other of your defense when you demonstrate deep knowledge of scum play. You can't possibly expect me to believe that somehow because you played scum your last 3 games that you can't help looking scummy; if you look scummy as scum then you are either a newb or scum trying to pull the same sort of defense that you are trying to pull now. Based on your skill set, its just not possible that "scum perfume" even exists in your game and your using it as a defense shows a scum mindset that is trying to overcompensate for its guilt with a faulty excuse.
In post 605, pirate mollie wrote:In post 595, Adam-12 wrote:In post 423, pirate mollie wrote:
In post 376, Adam-12 wrote:I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:
but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose
This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?
My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.
manipulative eh? where is the cog-dis btw?
Ok, I missed that you asked that question while quoting my post.
The cog-dis is how you use the faulty notion of "scum perfume" as an excuse for looking scummy. I would expect this defense from someone with less than 9 games, not somebody with over 90. The dissonance comes with other of your defense when you demonstrate deep knowledge of scum play. You can't possibly expect me to believe that somehow because you played scum your last 3 games that you can't help looking scummy; if you look scummy as scum then you are either a newb or scum trying to pull the same sort of defense that you are trying to pull now. Based on your skill set, its just not possible that "scum perfume" even exists in your game and your using it as a defense shows a scum mindset that is trying to overcompensate for its guilt with a faulty excuse.
adam I don't think you quite get how cog-dis works. saying that I may be wearing eau de scum cologne cos of lingering scum games is not cog-dis it is an admission stating that I had a streak of scum games and sometimes when a player has this when they get into their next game they will sometimes post from what appears to be from a scum POV even though they are not. I have trolleytracked on players for this too and there really is not much to be done about it except learn from it which I genuinely hope that you will do.
hawk boy is demonstrating cog-dis by keeping me in his scum pile when he has clearly stated that scum try to hide and blend in. he put his vote on me early and at a time when it was really obvious that I was not trying "hide" and "blend in". then he says that the reason I was not "hiding" and "blending in" was cos he and others wouldn't let me. this is untrue. I have been front and center from the get go. cog-dis is also saying that when you apologised you were being sarcastic when it was sandwhiched between serious posts. not to mention it was also downright douchey if he was being sarcastic.
I am trying to sincerely reach out to you cos I am hoping you will do a hard reset once I have flipped and realise that I have a played a shitload of games and might actually know what I am talking about. you should have trusted mantis's read on me she just watched me play 4 scum games (2 at TO, 1 at ratskep and the audio game here) she probably has a better grasp of my scum game then anything else that you guys can come up with.
do you even remember why I drew so much suspicion? cos I sheeped malacat when other players had the assumption that it was still rvs. she clearly stated that it was not an rvs vote but someone I can't remember who said she was being sarcastic when I knew she wasn't. the sites that I play on we do not even have an rvs stage most of us will just jump right in and get our hands dirty.
anyways I do not know what to say to you anymore. sorry I don't play exactly the way you want me to play I am what I am I will try to avoid you in future games. cheers.
adam I don't think you quite get how cog-dis works. saying that I may be wearing eau de scum cologne cos of lingering scum games is not cog-dis it is an admission stating that I had a streak of scum games and sometimes when a player has this when they get into their next game they will sometimes post from what appears to be from a scum POV even though they are not.
hawk boy is demonstrating cog-dis by keeping me in his scum pile when he has clearly stated that scum try to hide and blend in. he put his vote on me early and at a time when it was really obvious that I was not trying "hide" and "blend in". then he says that the reason I was not "hiding" and "blending in" was cos he and others wouldn't let me.
cog-dis is also saying that when you apologised you were being sarcastic when it was sandwhiched between serious posts. not to mention it was also downright douchey if he was being sarcastic.
you should have trusted mantis's read on me she just watched me play 4 scum games (2 at TO, 1 at ratskep and the audio game here) she probably has a better grasp of my scum game then anything else that you guys can come up with.
do you even remember why I drew so much suspicion? cos I sheeped malacat when other players had the assumption that it was still rvs.