Mini 1390: Game Over

[nhammen]

Vote Count 2.6

Thor665 (5): TheTrollie, Slandaar, _Sherlock_, Kinetic, kwll

Kinetic (3): toxictaipan, Thor665, Idiotking

Not Voting (2): Konowa, JacobSavage

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2012-12-08 15:00:00)

[Kinetic]

Konowa, Jacob, the fact that Thor has avoided claiming at Lynch -1 for several days now is absolutely stupid. Will one of you declare your intent to hammer this scum bag if he doesn't claim?

[Thor665]

You've been playing since 2007 - are you really telling me all town claim at L-1 regardless of hammer intent?
I'd love to hear you say that.

The case on me still doesn't exist and you're still trying to act like it does.
Your case is a flat out scummy case because it's so nonsensical - I'm scum because I defended scum (who you haven't proven is scum). That's laughably bad.

[Kinetic]

You've been playing since 2007 - are you really telling me all town claim at L-1 regardless of hammer intent?
I'd love to hear you say that.

The case on me still doesn't exist and you're still trying to act like it does.
Your case is a flat out scummy case because it's so nonsensical - I'm scum because I defended scum (who you haven't proven is scum). That's laughably bad.

Lynch -1, regardless of "hammer intent" means you claim. That is how it has always been. The fact that you're stalling is even scummier than anything else you've done.

You can straw man me and everyone else all you like, but the fact remains 5 people are voting for you. Even if you somehow assume that there are three scum, and all three are on you, at the minimum there are two townies voting you as well. We both know though that the likelihood of 3 scum on a single wagon is preposterous. Even if you assume I'm scum, and assume one of my "buddies" is on the wagon, that still means three townies are voting you. That is equal to the amount of people voting me, this all assuming your "best case scenario".

But we both know that isn't the case. Right now the "numbers" that you're so fond of show that the most likely scenario is IF there is scum on your wagon, at best it is one of your buddies hedging the best and voting you, putting 4 townies on your wagon at the worst. At best, there are currently 5 town holding you at lynch -1. Meaning, there are only 2-3 members of the town NOT on your wagon, in the most likely scenario.

Under this scenario, I'm not even LOOKING at the people voting on me.

Frankly, if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time. Are you willing to tell me you really think that the entire scum group is voting you, and that the members of that group are all contained in the 5 players voting you right now?

There are 10 players in the game, and there have been no scum flips yet. That means there is most like 3-4 scum out there, with the 4th either being neutral or possibly a traitor.

With those things being known: which is more likely, that:

The remaining four scum are in this group {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll}
OR, At MOST there is 1-2 scum within {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll} and Thor is scum, and there is 1-2 scum within {Konowa, Jacob, Toxic, and IdiotKing}

You tell ME what the fucking numbers say.

[_Sherlock_]

Okay, never mind. ^that post is pretty shitty. UNVOTE:

Note that Thor is no longer at L-1. I thought I did this earlier after his response to me, but I guess not.

This is kinda a prod-dodge post.

[Kinetic]

You've been playing since 2007 - are you really telling me all town claim at L-1 regardless of hammer intent?
I'd love to hear you say that.

The case on me still doesn't exist and you're still trying to act like it does.
Your case is a flat out scummy case because it's so nonsensical - I'm scum because I defended scum (who you haven't proven is scum). That's laughably bad.

Lynch -1, regardless of "hammer intent" means you claim. That is how it has always been. The fact that you're stalling is even scummier than anything else you've done.

You can straw man me and everyone else all you like, but the fact remains 5 people are voting for you. Even if you somehow assume that there are three scum, and all three are on you, at the minimum there are two townies voting you as well. We both know though that the likelihood of 3 scum on a single wagon is preposterous. Even if you assume I'm scum, and assume one of my "buddies" is on the wagon, that still means three townies are voting you. That is equal to the amount of people voting me, this all assuming your "best case scenario".

But we both know that isn't the case. Right now the "numbers" that you're so fond of show that the most likely scenario is IF there is scum on your wagon, at best it is one of your buddies hedging the best and voting you, putting 4 townies on your wagon at the worst. At best, there are currently 5 town holding you at lynch -1. Meaning, there are only 2-3 members of the town NOT on your wagon, in the most likely scenario.

Under this scenario, I'm not even LOOKING at the people voting on me.

Frankly, if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time. Are you willing to tell me you really think that the entire scum group is voting you, and that the members of that group are all contained in the 5 players voting you right now?

There are 10 players in the game, and there have been no scum flips yet. That means there is most like 3-4 scum out there, with the 4th either being neutral or possibly a traitor.

With those things being known: which is more likely, that:

The remaining four scum are in this group {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll}
OR, At MOST there is 1-2 scum within {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll} and Thor is scum, and there is 1-2 scum within {Konowa, Jacob, Toxic, and IdiotKing}

You tell ME what the fucking numbers say.

FURTHER: ASSUMING you flip town, which we both know won't fucking happen, that brings us down to 9 people.

We KNOW, that for you to flip town there must be at least 3 scum within {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll}, and at most there is 1 scum within {Toxic, IK, Jacob, and Konowa}

In town's best case scenario, Trollie is a Vig, meaning he has a 3/4ths chance of hitting scum by shooting one of {Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, or kwll}. If he believes me that I'm town, then we also know for certain that the three remaining scum are Slandaar, Sherlock and kwll in this highly unlikely scenario, but I digress.

In the highly likely chance that Trollie hits scum, the town enters Day 3 with at most 3 scum remaining, an active Vig, 3 "undecideds" in the remaining players from {Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, or kwll} and only 3 of {Toxic, Jacob, Konowa and IK} because the scum cannot kill from the "Undecided Group" or lose their shield. Thus leaving pretty much 2 Town within {Toxic, Jacob, Konowa, and IK} that are still alive, and Trollie is Vig in this scenario, and at worst Trollie hits the only townie in the three undecided, making it 3-4 town and 3-4 scum, with the likelihood that if there is 4 scum (or at the very least, he's a traitor, and may not count toward mafia win condition while the vig is alive because with two kills available and the mafia having a chance to either miss from a doc, hit their own traitor and Trollie to kill, plus not a sure thing to force a lynch, the game wouldn't end immediately), the fourth is NOT team scum, and thus we are not in endgame.

If Trollie hits a scum in this scenario, we enter the day with 4 town, and 2-3 scum. Two in the group of the three remaining from {Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, and Kwill} and one in the group of the three remaining from {Toxic, Jacob, Konowa and IK}.

If Trollie is SK in this scenario, we enter day 3 with either 3-4 town, 1 SK, 2-3 Mafia, of which, most likely there are 2-3 mafia within {Kinetic, Sherlock, Slandaar, Kwll} but only two are alive (because in the event of Thor flipping town, Trollie's best shot at hitting mafia is killing in that group), and then 0-1 Mafia within {Toxic, Jacob, Konowa, and IK}.

If Trollie is SK, If he hits Mafia, its 4-1-2, with 1-2 Mafia in the two remaining alive from {Kinetic, Sherlock, Standaar, and Kwll} and 0-1 Mafia within {Toxic, Jacob, Konowa, and IK}.

Here: Town win is likely. Town still have majority, and with two major suspects in the two still alive, the likelihood is town hits scum. Assuming the town lynches town though it means that the other MUST be mafia, and Trollie MUST kill that person during the night making:



If Trollie is SK, If he hits town, than it pretty has that the last three within the group of {Sherlock, Slaandar, Kinetic, and Kwll} must be mafia, and there are no mafia within the remaining 3 from {Toxic, Jacob, Konowa, and IK}.

Here: Town win or Draw.

Town and Trollie lynch mafia Day 3. During night, town does not protect Trollie. Either:

He is immune, survives night kill, kills mafia and thus makes it 3 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK in endgame. Town Win.

He is immune, survives night kill, kills town,

and this leads to an inevitable SK win, unless town spite Trollie, team up with Mafia to kill him and give the Mafia the win.
He is not immune, does not survive the night kill, kills mafia, makes it 4 town, 1 mafia in end game with the mafia known. Town Win.
He is not immune, is not targeted for night kill, kills mafia, makes it 3 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK. Again, Town Win.

He is not immune, does not survive night kill, kills town,

makes it 2 town, 2 mafia. Mafia Win.

He is not immune, is not tarted for night kill, kills town,

makes it 1 town, 2 mafia, 1 SK. Mafia Win.

THUS: The only way for Trollie to win this game if he is SK is if he is immune to night kills, and targets a town member during Night 3, AND the town decides not to screw him over.
THUS: The only way for the Mafia to win is if Trollie, on Night 3, kills a town member.
Therefore: If Town agrees if Trollie targets town during Night 3, we will throw the game to the Mafia, we force Trollie to have to attack Mafia in this event, and therefore, the only way Scum can win if Thor is Town is if Trollie is SK, and basically sacrifices himself to let the mafia win. This "denial" tactic forces Trollie to basically decide the game for Mafia or Town, no matter his immunity.

OK, I'm done going through all the possible contingencies. That is the absolute worst case scenario (Trollie is SK, Thor is not Scum). Even under that scenario, town still wins 50% of the time, and Trollie cannot win. Most likely though, the scenario isn't that bad, and frankly, Thor is scum, regardless of Trollies alignment.

I'm going to bed.

[Kinetic]

Okay, never mind. ^that post is pretty shitty. UNVOTE:

Note that Thor is no longer at L-1. I thought I did this earlier after his response to me, but I guess not.

This is kinda a prod-dodge post.

Really motherfucker. Really. Got it, found the third scum. {Toxic, Sherlock, Thor}. Done. Sherlock fucking blinked when I showed him Thor's logic was bullshit.

[Kinetic]

Can two of Jacob, IK, and Konowa now fucking kill Thor so we can move on and win this game.

[_Sherlock_]

VOTE: Kinetic

Explanation based on just his recent posts coming up when I switch to my laptop.

[_Sherlock_]

First of all, Thor's right that he's completely wrong about everyone claiming when they're put at L-1.

Post #903: The premise that "if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time" is faulty. Then, at the end of the post, you state that the game most likely has 3-4 scum, and then jump straight to the conclusion that it's four, which happens to be the worse scenario for Thor.

But the next posts after this are MUCH worse.

Post #905:

We KNOW, that for you to flip town there must be at least 3 scum within {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll}, and at most there is 1 scum within {Toxic, IK, Jacob, and Konowa}

No, we don't. This is a terribly false premise, and it ruins the rest of the post. I seriously don't see how you could be locked into this conclusion.

Okay, never mind. ^that post is pretty shitty. UNVOTE:

Note that Thor is no longer at L-1. I thought I did this earlier after his response to me, but I guess not.

This is kinda a prod-dodge post.

Really motherfucker. Really. Got it, found the third scum. {Toxic, Sherlock, Thor}. Done. Sherlock fucking blinked when I showed him Thor's logic was bullshit.

I'm scum for...? Calling your post bad? Unvoting Thor at L-1?

This actually doesn't make any sense.

[Kinetic]

First of all, Thor's right that he's completely wrong about everyone claiming when they're put at L-1.

First of all, this is yet another conclusions with no analysis. Why is he right that it is in the best interests of the town for a town player to NOT claim at Lynch -1.

I have no idea where this is even coming from. This has never been the case in any game I have played. How I missed every single game where this is the case is beyond me, but in every game I've ever played if you are at Lynch -1, and you're town, you FUCKING CLAIM because when you're TOWN and worried about a SCUM QUICK HAMMER, you want to tell the townies on your wagon as quick as possible that there might be a reason to get the fuck off your wagon.

Now, sure, its better for scum to not claim and stay longer, but that's the whole point. That's why TOWN fucking claim at L-1, and its scummy to wait and leave open the hammer possibility, or worse yet, to allow a meta where scum are able to stay at a precarious position and more time to fake a claim.

Post #903: The premise that "if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time" is faulty. Then, at the end of the post, you state that the game most likely has 3-4 scum, and then jump straight to the conclusion that it's four, which happens to be the worse scenario for Thor.

I was doing worst case scenario analysis. I also said ASSUMING there are 4 scum AND Thor is town. I obviously don't believe Thor is town, I believe he is scum. But the point is, even under that worst case scenario, the scum splits are obvious IF THOR IS TOWN. If Thor is scum, then the splits are much more murky, and have to be in order for what is happening to happen.

In fact, you're taking all of the worst case scenario analysis and equating it to what is likely to occur.

My whole premise is that for Thor to be town, and for there to be this long to go without someone intending to hammer, a town Thor must have a substantial number of scum on the wagon because otherwise scum would at the very least claim intent to hammer to get the claim out of Thor. That's the whole fucking point.

The premise that "if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time" is faulty

Conclusions are not analysis. Here let me teach you something. To analyzes something, you take your conclusion, and then add BECAUSE at the end of it, and then you explain WHY something is how you concluded as such. Let me show you:

The premise that "if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time" is faulty

because...

Now fill in the blank.

Then, at the end of the post, you state that the game most likely has 3-4 scum, and then jump straight to the conclusion that it's four, which happens to be the worse scenario for Thor.

... because I'm doing worst case scenario analysis. Its the worst case scenario IF Thor is town for the town. Now, if Thor is SCUM it doesn't matter if there are three or 4 scum in the game because we are already not in worst case scenario analysis, because that's best case scenario for the town.

In post 905, Kinetic wrote:
We KNOW, that for you to flip town there must be at least 3 scum within {Trollie, Slandaar, Sherlock, Kinetic, kwll}, and at most there is 1 scum within {Toxic, IK, Jacob, and Konowa}


No, we don't. This is a terribly false premise, and it ruins the rest of the post. I seriously don't see how you could be locked into this conclusion.

Because I am town, I know I am town, and therefore if Thor is town as well, that means the scum must be on his wagon already, and there must not be a scum available to call intent to hammer, because it is in the scum's best interest to call intent to hammer in this scenario.

But the fact of the matter is, you keep stating conclusions, but lack and analysis or facts to back it up. WHY is it a terrible faulty premise?

I've given all my reasons as to why I've made the assumptions I have and why I believe it is correct. You cannot just say I'm wrong without providing reasons as to why.

[_Sherlock_]

First of all, this is yet another conclusions with no analysis. Why is he right that it is in the best interests of the town for a town player to NOT claim at Lynch -1.

I have no idea where this is even coming from. This has never been the case in any game I have played. How I missed every single game where this is the case is beyond me, but in every game I've ever played if you are at Lynch -1, and you're town, you FUCKING CLAIM because when you're TOWN and worried about a SCUM QUICK HAMMER, you want to tell the townies on your wagon as quick as possible that there might be a reason to get the fuck off your wagon.

Now, sure, its better for scum to not claim and stay longer, but that's the whole point. That's why TOWN fucking claim at L-1, and its scummy to wait and leave open the hammer possibility, or worse yet, to allow a meta where scum are able to stay at a precarious position and more time to fake a claim.

Simple answer: People claim an intent to hammer

before

claims nowadays.

I was doing worst case scenario analysis. I also said ASSUMING there are 4 scum AND Thor is town. I obviously don't believe Thor is town, I believe he is scum. But the point is, even under that worst case scenario, the scum splits are obvious IF THOR IS TOWN. If Thor is scum, then the splits are much more murky, and have to be in order for what is happening to happen.

In fact, you're taking all of the worst case scenario analysis and equating it to what is likely to occur.

My whole premise is that for Thor to be town, and for there to be this long to go without someone intending to hammer, a town Thor must have a substantial number of scum on the wagon because otherwise scum would at the very least claim intent to hammer to get the claim out of Thor. That's the whole fucking point.

There are two problems with this. 1. You're comparing the worst-case scenario for Thor-town to the likely scenario for Thor-scum. 2. You're assuming the scum

are

going to claim intent to hammer no matter their circumstance. (that's my analysis; my conclusion is that you're making it up )

In post 909, _Sherlock_ wrote:
The premise that "if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time" is faulty because...


Now fill in the blank.

I'm pretty sure it's your job to prove your statement true instead of me proving it false. Why would ANY scum give an intent to hammer? Do you see that opportunity for everyone off of Thor's wagon?

Because I am town, I know I am town, and therefore if Thor is town as well, that means the scum must be on his wagon already, and there must not be a scum available to call intent to hammer, because it is in the scum's best interest to call intent to hammer in this scenario.

Except, again, you're assuming that scum will do this 100% of the time, without taking into account how it would make them look (obviously bad, because you're saying scum would do it all the time, right?), how optimally they're playing, etc.


And you still didn't respond as for why I'm scum. Conclusions, analysis, pot, kettle, black.

[Kinetic]

First of all, this is yet another conclusions with no analysis. Why is he right that it is in the best interests of the town for a town player to NOT claim at Lynch -1.

I have no idea where this is even coming from. This has never been the case in any game I have played. How I missed every single game where this is the case is beyond me, but in every game I've ever played if you are at Lynch -1, and you're town, you FUCKING CLAIM because when you're TOWN and worried about a SCUM QUICK HAMMER, you want to tell the townies on your wagon as quick as possible that there might be a reason to get the fuck off your wagon.

Now, sure, its better for scum to not claim and stay longer, but that's the whole point. That's why TOWN fucking claim at L-1, and its scummy to wait and leave open the hammer possibility, or worse yet, to allow a meta where scum are able to stay at a precarious position and more time to fake a claim.

Simple answer: People claim an intent to hammer

before

claims nowadays.

I was doing worst case scenario analysis. I also said ASSUMING there are 4 scum AND Thor is town. I obviously don't believe Thor is town, I believe he is scum. But the point is, even under that worst case scenario, the scum splits are obvious IF THOR IS TOWN. If Thor is scum, then the splits are much more murky, and have to be in order for what is happening to happen.

In fact, you're taking all of the worst case scenario analysis and equating it to what is likely to occur.

My whole premise is that for Thor to be town, and for there to be this long to go without someone intending to hammer, a town Thor must have a substantial number of scum on the wagon because otherwise scum would at the very least claim intent to hammer to get the claim out of Thor. That's the whole fucking point.

There are two problems with this. 1. You're comparing the worst-case scenario for Thor-town to the likely scenario for Thor-scum. 2. You're assuming the scum

are

going to claim intent to hammer no matter their circumstance. (that's my analysis; my conclusion is that you're making it up )

In post 909, _Sherlock_ wrote:
The premise that "if you were town and there were ANY scum not voting for you right now, they would have given an intent to hammer, just to stop this charade of you stalling for more time" is faulty because...


Now fill in the blank.

I'm pretty sure it's your job to prove your statement true instead of me proving it false. Why would ANY scum give an intent to hammer? Do you see that opportunity for everyone off of Thor's wagon?

Because I am town, I know I am town, and therefore if Thor is town as well, that means the scum must be on his wagon already, and there must not be a scum available to call intent to hammer, because it is in the scum's best interest to call intent to hammer in this scenario.

Except, again, you're assuming that scum will do this 100% of the time, without taking into account how it would make them look (obviously bad, because you're saying scum would do it all the time, right?), how optimally they're playing, etc.


And you still didn't respond as for why I'm scum. Conclusions, analysis, pot, kettle, black.

Absolutely no analysis, again just conclusions. I've supported my reasons why with facts. You haven't. Do that and I can argue against them or try to find out if you're mistaken.

Let me try to break it down for you, this is analysis:

Susie is cute. <- That is a conclusion.
Susie is cute [because] she is wearing a dress. <- I have a conclusion (Susie is cute) and a fact that supports that conclusion (dress), and I imply causation with because. That is analysis. Technically, there is also another conclusion in there (That dresses make people cuter), but that is much more advanced than I expect you to go. Just start with ONE fact, or ONE reason to support your conclusion. It isn't my job to support or prove YOUR case, it is my job to support and prove MY case, and I have done that. I've given reasons. If you don't agree with those reasons, tell me WHY. Don't just say I'm wrong because that doesn't help solve anything.

[Thor665]

Lynch -1, regardless of "hammer intent" means you claim. That is how it has always been. The fact that you're stalling is even scummier than anything else you've done.

Doing research, as best I can tell you actually believe this.
I do not.
Deal. It's actually not scummy though and it's fairly derptastic to suggest it is.
You know what is scummy? Lynching someone without a case.

Are you willing to tell me you really think that the entire scum group is voting you, and that the members of that group are all contained in the 5 players voting you right now?

I've openly stated that I don't believe that already
I don't even know what you expect? Yes...I agree with myself that not the entire scum team is voting me, and that it is probably two scum like I said, and that I think those two scum are you and Slandaar...huzzah?

Read m0ar.

Also, this awesome wagon of super win you have on me - name which of the players whose case on me you could describe. Just the names of them, I don't even need to hear their cases from you, just tell me their names.

I would offer that challenge to anyone.

[Thor665]

Not Voting (2): Konowa, JacobSavage

You know who needs to get into this game and make these competing L-2 wagons interesting?
I'm sure we could think of someone if we tried hard enough.

[Idiotking]

Oh hell, people. Don't get into a wallposting fight when I'm barely keeping up with the game as is. You people are terrible.

I'm going to have to catch up late tomorrow night. Sorry, it's the usual end-of-semester chaos.

[Idiotking]

Ok, I skimmed the last page or so, and I've got a few thoughts.

1. In my experience there isn't necessarily a set time to claim. It could be at L-1, L-1 with intent to hammer, L-2, hell, I saw a guy claim with only two votes on him out of about eleven players. While it's a good idea to claim when you're about to be lynched, I think it should be the person about to be lynched who decides when and how. Kinetic's insistence on Thor claiming is obvious fishing for a PR.

2. From what I can tell, Kinetic's made a series of bad assumptions about the game setup, and pretends it is valid. As far as actual knowledge about game setup, we can reasonably assume that there are about scum (from past experience with games of this size), and that there are at least two killers (one of them being mafia, the other very probably Trollie, whose alignment is still unknown.)

That is it.

Any argument beyond that goes into pure, unfounded speculation.

3. I note that Kinetic still hasn't explained why Thor is scum.

4. I'm going to take a wild, unfounded guess here that Kinetic just took the December LSAT, so he thinks he can strut his analytical stuff.

[Idiotking]

*there are about three scum

[toxictaipan]

Alright, done catching up. Basically nothing has changed since the last time I posted.

Not Voting (2): Konowa, JacobSavage

You know who needs to get into this game and make these competing L-2 wagons interesting?
I'm sure we could think of someone if we tried hard enough.

Tru dat. We're literally not discussing

anything

else right now. The stalling has to stop, it's time to pick sides.

3. I note that Kinetic still hasn't explained why Thor is scum.

Dude, he already said he doesn't have time. He's too busy with

school

getting into wall fights with Thor and Sherlock about setup and numbers speculation, and when it is the proper time to roleclaim. Give him a break.

[Kinetic]

Ok, I skimmed the last page or so, and I've got a few thoughts.

1. In my experience there isn't necessarily a set time to claim. It could be at L-1, L-1 with intent to hammer, L-2, hell, I saw a guy claim with only two votes on him out of about eleven players. While it's a good idea to claim when you're about to be lynched, I think it should be the person about to be lynched who decides when and how. Kinetic's insistence on Thor claiming is obvious fishing for a PR.

Kinetic might be right... but he is obviously role fishing. Frankly, if I didn't completely believe that L-1 meant claim, would I be so blatantly telling him to claim. As far as I'm concerned this entire fucking town deserves to lose for that one.

2. From what I can tell, Kinetic's made a series of bad assumptions about the game setup, and pretends it is valid. As far as actual knowledge about game setup, we can reasonably assume that there are about scum (from past experience with games of this size), and that there are at least two killers (one of them being mafia, the other very probably Trollie, whose alignment is still unknown.)

That is it.

Any argument beyond that goes into pure, unfounded speculation.

You obviously don't know who I am. I'm the guy that breaks set ups more complicated than this in my sleep. Assuming 3-4 scum in a 13 player game isn't "unfounded speculation" its common fucking sense.

3. I note that Kinetic still hasn't explained why Thor is scum.

And I see I was wrong about you. The question is... how wrong?

4. I'm going to take a wild, unfounded guess here that Kinetic just took the December LSAT, so he thinks he can strut his analytical stuff.[/quote] Nah, I took the LSAT three years ago. Since then I've topped my classes in law school. But then again, I don't like to brag. You're the one who called me out.

[TheTrollie]

I am still papering, tried catching up just now. Way too tired. Sorry guys. I'm gonna try to attack this tomorrow...finals suk

[kwll]

well, the plot thickens

[Idiotking]

@Kinetic:

Holy ego, Batman! How come the last two games I've been in had someone trying to play the alpha dog? I don't care how awesome you think you are at decoding setups. You are making absurdly broad assumptions, childishly insisting that you're right and everyone else is wrong about the damn L-1 claim thing, pitching fits when things don't go your way, putting words in my mouth (I

never

said you were right about the claim thing, I said it's up to interpretation), and

still withholding your entire case on Thor

. I don't care what your credentials are, this is just obscenely bad play, and you should be lynched for it.

[Kinetic]

@Kinetic:

Holy ego, Batman! How come the last two games I've been in had someone trying to play the alpha dog? I don't care how awesome you think you are at decoding setups. You are making absurdly broad assumptions, childishly insisting that you're right and everyone else is wrong about the damn L-1 claim thing, pitching fits when things don't go your way, putting words in my mouth (I

never

said you were right about the claim thing, I said it's up to interpretation), and

still withholding your entire case on Thor

. I don't care what your credentials are, this is just obscenely bad play, and you should be lynched for it.

You keep using that word, you and Thor. I'm "withholding" my case on him. When I've explained it simply, I don't have time to put together a case. I've said what I can about how I feel, and I've attacked what Ic an of his shit logic, what else do you want me to do? Where is Thor's "case" against me? Where is your or Sherlock's case? What is your preoccupation for something that no one else has provided either?

I didn't push to become an alpha dog, it isn't my preferred method of play at all, you kept poking me, you and Thor, and finally I snapped and decided if really, the bullshit numbers game he was going on about and all the bullying he was doing was going to be allowed to fly then I finally snapped. I don't have time to do anything but react right now, and barely any time for that.

You want to attack my play, fine, but don't even try to act like you know a damn thing more about setup speculation than I do. That is my baby and as far as I've seen there are few that can even grasp my assumptions. That isn't me chest beating, that's just fact. What you see up there is stuff I usually never post, those are what my private notes will look like because that is very difficult for most people to grasp, but it leads to finding scum more often than you believe.

The issue is, I have one piece of information that you don't. I know my own alignment, and that allows me to make assumptions that you can't. That assumption shows me that one of me or Thor virtually MUST be scum, I've gone over it again and again in my head, and the likelihood of it not being the case is extraordinarily low. And I know for a fact that I'm not scum. If I'm wrong, well then, there are three scum at least that have played either very well or completely sub-optimally. That's one thing I have trouble predicting: poor play. But it happens.

Do i have an ego? Yes. But it's well deserved. It might be a little rusty, but this sword is made of good steel.

[Slandaar]

Writing messages to yourself Thor?

How... Strange.
(will read all this later)