Open 466: Nomination Mafia - Town Wins!

[Toroid]

Aren't any scumtells and town tells on myself that I specifically announce probably unreliable?

No.

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p4510072]This should be me vs Toroid no questions asked today.

I'm not getting the logic behind this. If you are town, and you think that I am a town member. It shouldn't be between us. Something is wrong here. You're scum right? Because I can only think that scum would do something like this!

[Thor665]

It actually makes sense insomuch as Rainbow is saying that I am obv. town (and, also, I suspect Rainbow believes they will win in the 1v1 with you)
If we think everyone who was nommed was town then it really is about just picking the lesser town as the lynch.
I'll admit I'm leaning towards agreement with Rainbow's call there - mostly because his catch on Top12Gun is actually really good and I quite agree with it.

Trust me - I would much rather lynch a number of players than you or Rainbow right now, but it just isn't an option.

What do you think of Rainbow's point on Top12Gun?
Also, if that makes you think of Top12 as scum, who would you say is the partner? I'm leaning Devourer and Rainbow apparently goes for User - what's your bet?

@Mod - User Name is now officially in your prod range of 48 hours. I'd also like to request a prod on Top12Gun as he has gone past the 30 which allows me to request said proddage to his buttocks.

[Fujiko]

@Mod - User Name is now officially in your prod range of 48 hours. I'd also like to request a prod on Top12Gun as he has gone past the 30 which allows me to request said proddage to his buttocks.

Both have been prodded.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm not getting the logic behind this. If you are town, and you think that I am a town member. It shouldn't be between us. Something is wrong here. You're scum right? Because I can only think that scum would do something like this!

Im going back and forth bewteen too dumb for scum and playing dumb here.

The basic reason for my voting you goes

1) We can only vote for You, Me, Thor. No pony else.
2) I think T12 is scum, I have posted cases on why he is scum.
3) If T12 is scum, Thor is town.
4) You are the only possible scum I could vote, even though I still think you are more likely town than scum.

Im not selfvoting and im not voting the pony who becomes confirmed town with me once we lynch T12. Really this game is simple - Stall with your lynch today, maybe get lucky and im wrong and its T12-You. Lynch T12. Lynch all but me, Thor.

T12 is contradicting his theorys when convienent all over the place, staying away from threats, its really basic newbie scum play.

[Thor665]

Why would he consider you a threat and not me though?

Am I losing my touch?

[Top12Gun]

That would be sexy.

Well in that case:

I'll be honest - the parts where we're agreeing (Toroid too) is because I'm dead serious when I say none of your cases make any sense.

So...wanna address how I already proved your suspicion is meaningless and silly? Just because it's a new day doesn't mean you get to now act like the suspicion is justified simply because it's older. I would actually love to see you doing any sort of scumhunting at all...or maybe explain how what you're doing *is* scumhunting?

Well firstly, I'll put your meta on the shelf for awhile since you've sufficiently proven that inadmissible (at least for now.) But let's look at what I see as little scumtells:

In post #12, you say, referring to a speed lynch "Oh, you find that only a little scummy?" implying it should be more so. (Small, yes, but I still find it scummy.) In post #28, you create a false dichotomy for no apparent reason (speed lynch scum vs. talk and lynch town.) In post #43, you say we should be sheeping you, but give no reasons why. You say in post #16 that a word choice, yet you act as if the same type of argument is groundless when Ace makes that point about you in post #35. You want people to sheep you in post #43, but give no further reasons why. He completely ignored

Bussing.

How would this derive any benefit for Thor? It doesn't make Thor look innocent in any way, as Ace is the obvious candidate for lynch and none of his scumminess owes any debt to Thor.

But he IS distancing early from a sinking ship.

I'd still rather speed lynch scum than talk a lot and lynch town.

So were you serious with your vote advocating speed lynching?

I dunno - I've never managed to get a speed lynch when I asked for it.

So why ask??

All this combines to make me see Thor as scum.

And I'm not sure what I think about Devourer, especially since Thor, his accuser, is at the top of my scumlist.

And would scum not accuse a scumbuddy?

Yeah, but this could be applied to every FOS in the game...

@Top12Gun - while you're ignoring my meta - could you also drop me a link to any completed scum games of yours?

I'm an impatient noob with only one game on here, and that as town. So, no, sorry.

I'll want to see you explain how Name User is buddying Top12Gun after you get your feedback from him.

This. I had to do a search to find his posts, and all he's doing is unintentionally making a straw man of my argument. Definitely not, lol.

I kind of thought there was a difference in the cases though. Top12Gun's was about the request for quick lynching specifically, and then User's was about me trying to ride the WIFOM train. Basically one called me scum for doing an 'obvious scum action' and the other called me scum for doing an 'obvious scum action to try to look town' which, is similar, but struck me as different attacks.

Also, with, what, three pages or something, how much variety could they really have at that stage? Is it even scummy to begin with? I seem to recall a lot of the Ace votes were all due to rather similar reasons, yeah?

Here's where I run into problems: this screams town to me. Thor didn't have to post this. If he were scum, he could have let this run it's course with at least one likely town possibly dying. But he didn't. That gives me pause.

Top12Gun's was about the request for quick lynching specifically

I cant believe I missed this.

Its why T12 is scum, and due to that Thor is town, and why Toroid becomes the default lynch.

Remember why T12 jumped hard on Thor to start? He was suggesting quicklynch stuff (jokingly) which T12 said was scummy. How did the day end? Me essentially quicklynching TAOS. T12 repsonds to this by NOT attacking me but instead continuing a crusade against Thor who has some suspicion against him?

Thor is the easier lynch, im not sure if T12 is nervous about me tearing into him since I already am calling him scum or just thinks that he can get the Thor lynch right here, but I dont for a second buy that as town he pays no attention to something that he views as a scumtell.

T12 is scum, for that reason alone Thor is town. This should be me vs Toroid no questions asked today.

Umm, several fail arguments here. 1, I would have preferred a longer day, but I was less stubborn about it because I, too, thought he was likely maf. Ace was terribad town, and see where that got us, but not gonna blame you for hammering because I would likely have done the same if I didn't 100% believe Thor was mafia. But how the hell would me flipping scum make Thor town?? I mean, it would help his case, but would by no means clear him. And the point is moot anyway.

T12 is contradicting his theorys when convienent all over the place, staying away from threats, its really basic newbie scum play.

No, I still think quicklynch was counterproductive, but the way Ace behaved, I can't fault you too much. As far as staying away from threats, that must be why I'm accusing Thor, counter to most of the viewpoints I'm seeing.

[Thor665]

@Top12Gun - So me asking for a quicklynch was scummy. Rainbow doing a quicklynch was not scummy. You seem to be standing by that call - clarify?

[Top12Gun]

@Top12Gun - So me asking for a quicklynch was scummy. Rainbow doing a quicklynch was not scummy. You seem to be standing by that call - clarify?

Because it was Ace after that display of ineptitude, LESS scummy. Still some scummy tho.

[Top12Gun]

And I screwed up the last quote. That's Rainbow, not Toroid.

[Rainbowdash]

Why would he consider you a threat and not me though?

Am I losing my touch?

Im that happy/cute but really deadly type pony when push comes to shove and exceedingly dangerous to your health if I think you are scum or I get challenged, etc. Its part of the reason I like these nightless games, I actually cant get NKed by the third day like normal.

Umm, several fail arguments here. 1, I would have preferred a longer day, but I was less stubborn about it because I, too, thought he was likely maf. Ace was terribad town, and see where that got us, but not gonna blame you for hammering because I would likely have done the same if I didn't 100% believe Thor was mafia. But how the hell would me flipping scum make Thor town?? I mean, it would help his case, but would by no means clear him. And the point is moot anyway.

Im not sure ive seen anypony try and avoid challenging me so much before. I really dont see how you can make the arguement of "quicklynching is anti-town" followed by "well its not on a VI" who really... I didnt HAVE much of a scumread on if you paid attention to my posts. I just figured the chance was enough that it helped either way. Also yeah, I would basically not even bat an eye at Thor being scum untill a F3 with you as scum.

No, I still think quicklynch was counterproductive, but the way Ace behaved, I can't fault you too much. As far as staying away from threats, that must be why I'm accusing Thor, counter to most of the viewpoints I'm seeing.

Given the state of the game, yes he is the easier target. You blowing off the fact that I did something you view as scummy to the point where its not mentioned until I call you out on it and then gets passed off as conditional... yes thats picking a target that currently has backing to lynch him as opposed to me. I bet if it was somepony else you would be calling the quicklynch a scumtell, which is probably why im here in part, but you have residual support from yesterday there.

Its not Thor because you are scum. Its really annoying having to defend him the way I am but hey, you make due with the cards you are delt, and if I have to defend him getting somepony who might be scum but probably isnt lynched first, then its what I have to do. Lynching Toroid basically gives us the win since if your partner is under my radar they wont be able to get away with Thor being alive. I just have to play today with hypotheicals. I have a townish read on Thor and other reads back it up. You are going to need to go through me to get to him... that BASICALLY means you need everypony else in the game... good luck.

Above post is what im talking about, you seem to be trying to turning quicklynching into a tell only where it fits your plan for it to be a tell. If you have to apply it to both of us, you have two on top of you who are more than adept players, so you are trying to keep me happy by calling me town and keep the pressure on Thor.

Can we also cut the horseapples here and just go to the 3v3 (me-thor-dev vs t12-NU-toroid) already? Its coming, its been coming, lets just do it already. I would be happy if Thor voted soon so tie gets Toroid lynched at deadline.

[Thor665]

Vote: Toroid

Yeah, I'm sold. Top12 is dancing like a boss right now.

[Thor665]

@Toroid - vote me pl0x.

[Toroid]

But, yeah, It's either Devourer - or you have scum balls the size of casaba melons, or Rainbow is really lolsilly scum.

What changed?

[Toroid]

I feel like your scum trying to knock me off or using me as scum bait.

[Toroid]

you're*

[Thor665]

But, yeah, It's either Devourer - or you have scum balls the size of casaba melons, or Rainbow is really lolsilly scum.

What changed?

I don't know, what did change?

Devourer is

cum
Paired with Top12Gun/Name User

Discuss.

I'm leaning towards 'I decided Top12 is more likely scum than User' but I may have confused myself.
What do you think changed?

[Thor665]

You do understand I'm not allowed to vote Devourer or Top12 today, right?

[Toroid]

You do understand I'm not allowed to vote Devourer or Top12 today, right?

Got that now
What if we just vote for no one? I'm not comfortable picking you or devourer right now.

[Thor665]

It's impossible to have no lynch - there's a deadline enforced lynch.

[Fujiko]

orcinus_theoriginal replaces Name User, effective immediately.

Devourer359 has been prodded.

[Fujiko]

Vote Count 2.3

Toroid: 3 (Rainbowdash, Devourer359, Thor665)
Thor665: 1 (Top12Gun)
Rainbowdash: 0

Not voting: 2 (Toroid, orcinus_theoriginal)

Reminder: only votes on Thor665, Rainbowdash, and Toroid are valid.

4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2012-12-11 22:00:00)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hi guys. Steam is shit and updating again. And only 144 posts is easy to sort through.

Also, if OP is correct and the Mafioso are ‘stereotypical’, I think we should start posting pictures of ourselves because we all know the best way to determine if people are Mafias or not are by their choice in clothing.

I’m just going to ignore the fact that I can only lynch one of three people for now and offer my thoughts on everything.

Thor starts off with what I think is a reaction test. Topgun responds well (I think takes Thor too seriously).

Theaceofspades enters on post 20. From four posts I’m starting to get a vibe that this may be the newbie who seems scummy as hell. We’ll see.

I’m not sure why Thor hasn’t pointed out the possibility of taos being a noob town yet. He must be able to see that taos is inexperienced.

@42, what bait?

Devourer enters as like the first voice of reason in the entire thread. Maybe there were others but taos mostly masked that. I didn’t see Top really say that the WIFOM was a suspicious thing (this is referring to post 17, right), so I’m seeing an oversensitive Devourer taking Top’s observations to be an attack. Ace is policy right now, not a scum lynch. He’s one of those players I don’t think you can read because they post randomly.

The hyperfocus on taos/thor/topgun should stop.

I think rainbowdash contradicts herself in 47. She says that T12 is a scum read, and then says that scum are uneasy getting into confrontation. Wouldn’t the logical thing for scum T12 to do just to not reply to Thor?

Thor continues the taos whatever.

@50: Never mind. T12 is scummy. Thor’s call for a speed lynch shouldn’t be taken seriously. Anyone still harping on that point is just grasping at straws. And no scum would play THAT badly, would they?

--Thoughts at this point in time: taos would obviously be a lynch candidate on odd days. Why don’t we not waste our even day lynch, and policy him on odd days when our options are limited? I’m also very concerned about the hyperfocus surrounding 3 players.

@55: Devourer sort of speaks my mind on the T12 case. T12 is definitely scummy for taking the speed lynch seriously, but not because of his passive play.
Can somebody enlighten me on how Thor normally treats VIs?

@63: Who’s toroid

@64: I’m going to stop reading taos’ posts now. Not really, but I want to.

Toroid/Thor interaction makes it seem like the two aren’t scumbuddies, for the sole reason that they’re almost getting along too friendly for scum to be comfortable with.

@81: lol

@87: At this point, I’m starting to get a little antsy about Thor’s “vote me and be scum, sheep me and be town”. Although this is probably mostly a joke previously, the fact that Thor says it in a serious manner in this post is disconcerting. Are all of the VIs exclusively voting for you?

Oh god that hammer was shocking.

It’s a page 4 hammer, you flipped your vote massively, called thor “town by default” which is a phrase I find avoidable at all costs. TAOS’ flipping mafia would clear Rainbowdash. I really hope you explain your move from topgun in the future, aside from “let’s policy someone”.

Goddamnit he was town.

I keep forgetting that Toroid is in the game. He’s probably one of those people who get to the end because people just forget him. I would probably say he’s clean by his inclusion in the ‘available to be lynched’ category because scum would have used another random inactive (my predecessor) if Toroid were scum.

@94: Devourer is cum lol. Also, I need to look over Devourer’s posts again.

I don’t think Toroid can vote Devourer, can he? Or am I understanding the rules incorrectly. And where is the sudden devourer popularity even coming from?

Rainbow should be getting more pressure for that hammer.

@100: Haven’t we seen already that policies are bad, why are we still going after name user

@103: WHY NAME USER he didn’t do anything (scummy).

I think Devourer is just getting flak for slipping under the radar. The lack of solid evidences of scumtells tells me that a). the level of play here at this site is so high that we’ve moved beyond evidences, overrated anyways, or b). this is scum driven. I’m willing to bet on at least one of the people who’ve jumped on Devourer to be scum, because of the lack of evidence against him, and the fact that he seems to be a better player than T12 and NU, and so is a better scumlynch.

Thor seems scummy to be right now. He needs to offer something substantial with regards to devourer, not just throw out random names and see if it sticks. I still don’t like his day 1 play—even if you were to policy lynch on day 1, why would you restrict all your attention onto that one person (who you can’t even read anyways)? Really stifles the information us town get to use.

@107: Why is thor town? I feel like I missed a page somewhere.

@109: I definitely missed a page somewhere if Devourer is calling Thor, his primary accuser, a townie. He makes a good point on Toroid. I like him not jumping on NU. I’m starting to buy the T12 lynch. I like the devourer one less and less, although that may be because I’m reading fast.

@110: What is a melon doing on my mafia game

@112: Why is Thor exempt from suspicion for /driving/ the taos wagon? The unjustified (as far as I can tell) reads on Thor are scary.

@113: “I’ll sheep all the darn well I please for as long as I feel like it” Remind me to lynch you all the darn well I please.

@114: I’d imagine that Toroid is trying to avoid confrontation with Thor here, either because scumbuddies or because Toroid is sheeping with someone who for some bizzare reason is being taken as confirmed town ( I take back my ‘too friendly to be scumbuddies’ comment from before). In either scenario, Toroid is scum.

Yeah Toroid is just trolling now.

@124: Oh. Thor is town because T12 is scum? Does that work the other way around, too?

T12 continues to harp on the speedlynch request. Meta’ing Top might be a good idea, although I am not going to be the one who does that since I have the last 6 pages to re-read.

@131: +1

First melons, now ponies. Stop.

I am almost fine with hammering Toroid right now, but I’ll re-read devourer. Oh look, steam finished updating.


I’ll sort out this mess later, but you can see my thought process. I made these comments as I went through the thread, and did not go back to edit.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No. I take that back. If we end up lynching Toroid, it'll be because he's the least helpful townie in those 3, not because he's scum. And I think there’s a scum somewhere in that group between Thor and Rainbowdash.

It makes no sense for Toroid, who was cruising along just fine, to be cast into suspicion by putting himself up for lynch. I can easily see Thor putting himself up for lynch though, just given his high opinion of himself. Name User/topgun would have been infinitely better choices. Furthermore, I am simply not buying the Thor=confirmed town narrative I'm reading, and as far as I'm concerned, thor and rainbowdash's interaction seems fake. TAOS wasn’t a poor lynch—he was just a poor odd day lynch. Furthermore, I just don’t /get/ why devourer’s name is being bandied around.

Rainbowdash: Since you knew about the mechanics of the game, why did you choose to policy lynch on an odd day, when ample time remained for you to convince people of the T12 case? Furthermore, does the T12 scum/Thor town work the other way around if T12 flips town?

Explain to me how T12’s play is passive (per 47) seeing as he’s been going after someone who is, in your eyes, a confirmed townie? Also explain how sure you are of this.

Thor: Why did you choose to focus on nobody but a VI on day 1? That doesn’t seem very pro-town to me.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Thor665

[Thor665]

Thor: Why did you choose to focus on nobody but a VI on day 1? That doesn’t seem very pro-town to me.

Which one of the VIs I discussed do you think I solely focused on? I disagree this even happened. Even in your catchup you seem aware I discussed multiple of them (even though you rather missed my point a lot)

Here's a question for you, how is 'driving' a sudden speed lynch that came out of nowhere a scumtell on me?

[Devourer359]

Yeah, but this could be applied to every FOS in the game...

I'm saying that it's a null tell.

Here's where I run into problems: this screams town to me. Thor didn't have to post this. If he were scum, he could have let this run it's course with at least one likely town possibly dying. But he didn't. That gives me pause.

Again, a null tell. If the player himself really doesn't agree, it doesn't matter whether he is scum or town. And as scum, why would he scummily push against his own opinion, potentially damaging trust on him in future days?

I really dont see how you can make the arguement of "quicklynching is anti-town" followed by "well its not on a VI" who really

He's saying that quicklynching without evidence and hammering a potential scum are different. He never stated that he suspected Ace as a VI before the lynch, so why are you stating it like he did?

Can somebody enlighten me on how Thor normally treats VIs?

Thor, answer this please.