Micro 89 ~ Mafia Rarefaction Segunda (Game Over!)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:00 am

Post by StefanB »

F-16 wrote
Konowa, what do you think of Tierce's behavioral analysis and why do you think it is scum-motivated to address behavioral analysis? Also, I had a final this morning. I said in my post that I would address Tierce's case later so why is the fact that I didn't address it cause for FOS?

I didn't get the FOSpoint, you mean the L-1 vote by Konowa right?
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:00 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

Oh, you mean Konowa's vote. Yeah, I want to know why he thinks behavioral analysis is scummy. It seemed like he was stretching really hard to find a reason and ultimately landed on the fact that I posted behavioral analysis of Tierce as a reason to put me at L-1.

I think all the votes on me are based on poor reasoning but considering 4 people voted and there are only 2 scum, I am obviously way off and need to reconsider my reads. I'll certainly be killed tonight and this being my last day, I'll post a ton of reads and analysis. We have to lynch scum today to negate the benefit they got from outing the IC. We only have about 3 days left before deadline.

@ StefanB, why TUG?

@ Parama, considering we know I am town, does that change your read of TUG when he offered to sheep you if you make a case. I still want t know why you weren't suspicious of that.
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:02 am

Post by Parama »

I don't want to get to rarefaction. Lynch Fighting.
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:03 am

Post by Parama »

And yes, I saw the claim. I don't believe it. I do believe he's trying to draw out the real innocent child, however.
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:04 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

In post 277, Parama wrote:I don't want to get to rarefaction. Lynch Fighting.


We know that an innocent child exists in the game based on the setup. No cc's confirms me as town even without mod confirmation.
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:04 am

Post by Parama »

On that note, in the rare parallel universe where he actually is town, he'd screw us over in rarefaction with his crap reads. I don't think I've agreed with a single one of this reads all game.
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:04 am

Post by Parama »

In post 279, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
In post 277, Parama wrote:I don't want to get to rarefaction. Lynch Fighting.

No cc's confirms me as town even without mod confirmation.

No CC's confirms that the real innocent child isn't a moron.
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:06 am

Post by Aeris »

Check out those conditional town reads.

Tierce - I know you know who I am, I knew you knew who I was before the game started because I know how you know who I am. I think it's weird your town read on me seems partially conditional on f-16 being scum. Though I am intentionally *attempting* to force myself to approach the game in a different way, I know that enough elements of me as town are still present, so the conditional looks really weird to me. Also that statement you made to f-16 where you claim that if someone can't read you when you're town is really bad reads really off in the context of this game. You haven't been obvtown by a longshot in this game, so I don't know what you were trying to accomplish there.

Hmm ballsy move if scum as he would be instalynched tomorrow in rarefaction and would leave his partner as the last hope and potentially lose easier if the real IC ended up in his partners cell. But if he was counterclaimed he'd either still be lynched or they would be able to night kill them.

Hmm ill have more to say on tierce's case and his reaction to her case, which leads me to believe his IC claim anyway but in a little bit. I have to do something real quick, which may or may not take up all my energy.

Also, please bear with me if I don't make a lot of sense or misread something, I had a minor surgery yesterday and the pain medicine I'm on either makes me feel very sick, disoriented or extremely tired or a little of all.

I'm still happy with my vote on konowa and want to read through tierces case again but I think I said that already. Okay back in a bit.
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:07 am

Post by Konowa »

Everything you [F-16] said in regards to her behavior is alignment null.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder,
without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better,
and not the world about them?
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:09 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

Hmm, I guess I could see why you would think that considering I didn't post examples from her meta. I'll do it now.
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:19 am

Post by StefanB »

Parama: That hurts. I AM NOT LYNCHING F-16 WITHOUT A CC.
We are not lynching a potential confirmed town because of bad reads.
That is "headdesk" at best...

About TUG:
Their play is way off. Normally both are load and hunting and trying to convice everyone, nothink here.
The hide in the background.
Only scumreads.
Willing to policitylynch.
(The second 2 points are exspecially good for scum)
Parking their vote.
(The fluffposting in the middle is a minor point)
Can I ask you a question F-16, what do you think of TUG and why?
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:23 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

I've played with Thor before and he is usually much more active than this. But then Thor has two scummies, I doubt it would be so easy to tell when he is scum (simply due to inactivity). I need to research Thor's meta later. I am busy doing Tierce's right now.

I don't get why he would offer to sheep Parama when he claimed that Parama was scum. The policylynch idea was bad. It is fairly obvious that inactives will be replaced. Overall, I don't know. Need more content from TUG especially Thor.
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:36 am

Post by Tierce »

UNVOTE: F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Not interested in any counterclaims at present, but that being said, this slot will not be lynched prior to Rarefaction.


Aeris--if Falcon is not the Innocent Child, he may be trying to draw out the real IC Today, not at Rarefaction. Considerably less ballsy move. This is a moot point, however, as I am not interested in counterclaims.

How is it weird to have conditional Townreads? If a scum v. scum pairing doesn't work and I believe person A is scum, person B is necessarily Town to me. It's partner-hunting.

As for that line, it's Empire's regarding both Regfan's and my Townplay. It was more humorous than anything--I haven't been mislynched since December 11 last year and was 'celebrating' my no-mislynch-versary.


Either way, waiting on Falcon's 'case'. Want to go through other things later today.
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:09 am

Post by Leafsnail »

"I want to lynch someone who is either the sole town power role or doomed scum because I don't like his reads" - Parama, an experienced player who is claiming to be town
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:12 am

Post by Leafsnail »

Actually I want every player who is not voting Parama at the moment to complete the sentence "I think trying to lynch a claimed IC is something a townie would do because..."
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:34 am

Post by Konowa »

Leaving F-16 alive is best play. If he is scum, it could possibly break game for us in Rarefaction pending cell setup.

Vote: TwoUpstandingGentlemen
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder,
without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better,
and not the world about them?
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:39 am

Post by Parama »

w/e
if I die tonight though Fighting is 100% scum :\
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:48 am

Post by Konowa »

Who is F-16 scum with, Parama?
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder,
without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better,
and not the world about them?
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:49 am

Post by Parama »

don't care yet
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:15 am

Post by Leafsnail »

In post 290, Konowa wrote:Leaving F-16 alive is best play. If he is scum, it could possibly break game for us in Rarefaction pending cell setup.

Yeah. Why aren't you voting Parama?
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:23 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

How do I make a table here?
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:27 am

Post by Leafsnail »

The mouseover text for the table tag seems to explain it.
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:58 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

How about Images?
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:03 am

Post by Tierce »

...You have got to be kidding me.

Look at the BBcode buttons and stop stalling. Where is that meta case on me? You don't need tables or images for that, and you know how to post links and quotes.
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:12 am

Post by F-16_Fighting_Falcon »

Let's take a sample of Tierce's recent games:

TOWN
:

1) Mafia in Triplicate
: Tierce is pro-active right from the beginning of the game. She pressures NobodySpecial in #33. When NS votes her back, she questions him and demands explanations as to why he thinks she is scum. Her later switch to Saulres also feels comletely natural. She expresses slight suspicion on him, has a conversation with him at #163 and later votes him. The smooth progression of suspicion, and the desire to understand what is going on in the mind of her scumreads is seen here.

2) Micro 51
: A recent game I played with Tierce under my alt rapidcanyon. Right from the moment, she replaces in, she is actively scumhunting. She first suspects me here #57. Notice how she continues asking questions and probing for motivations. She responds to my arguments and asks a few more questions, demands explanations as to what kind of reactions I was expecting and what they mean about alignments. She continues going back and forth for 6 pages probing into every possible motivation and explaining why they are wrong or in some cases changing her reads.


SCUM
:

1) Black Flag Nightless
: Piggygal had 4 out of 6 votes to lynch when Sixty (Tierce/Vi hydra) places the fifth vote. This post was made by Tierce (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4471773) where she places the L-1 vote and makes a case for lynching Piggygal. Most of the reasoning was terrible - the fact that Piggygal was joking somehow makes her scum, and using Piggygal's RVS votes to implicate her. A quick look at Sixty's ISO shows not much aggression and initiation of pressure. Essentially, she made a huge case against the L-1 wagon and jumped onto it.

2) Possessed Pastors in a Paranoid Parish
: In this game too, I was playing under my alt rapidcanyon, I was town and Tierce was scum. Her case against me mirrored her case against Piggy in Black Flag Nightless. #178It mostly talked about having "exagerrated reactions" #263 does more of the same. It is mostly a play on words arguing about whether the word "imperative" means the same as "urgent" and other hollow reads.


Notes:


1) Interesting to note, Tierce put Saulres at L-1 in Mafia in Triplicate so bandwagoning by itself is non-alignment indicative to her. The methodolgy of the bandwagon is what matters. In Mafia in Triplicate, she had expressed suspicion of Saulres before. She asked why he was going after a serial flaker. That natural progression of suspicion culminating in an L-1 vote separates her vote on other L-1 wagons like Piggy in Black Flag Nightless where her case lacked any depth to it and merely pointed out the dumb things that Piggy did in an attempt to paint her as scum.

2)
Tierce's influence over town
: When town, Tierce leads the game. She questions players, finds out their motivations, keeps up with the game and isn't self-conscious enough to make long, elaborate "cases." When she sees someone suspicious, she votes them. She asks them questions, tries to find out for herself whether the player is scum or town. This is apparent in both the above town games. As scum, she has relatively little influence over the outcome of the day. As seen in Possessed Pastors, in her later posts, she lurks a lot, makes giant catchup posts and hollow cases. The primary difference in her cases is that as scum, she tries to pin enough inconsistencies on a player in order to achieve a goal - lynching that player. As town, she never stops digging into the "why." She always wants to know why someone is doing what they did and why that could come from a scum motivation.

3)
Tierce's activity level
: Tierce lurks as scum. This is a pattern that can be seen over multiple games. Her activity level in games as town is always less that the activity level in games as scum.

To prove this, I calculated her activity level in her last 9 town games and last 9 scum games. I calculated it is a percentage of the total posts in the game until the point of Tierce's death in the game. I also calculated an "expected" percentage which each player in the game would have if they all posted equally. I then divided her actual percentage with her expected percentage to get the ratio of her activity level. As you can see from the graph, Tierce lurks as scum. She is lurking in this game which points to more evidence that she is scum.

SCUM

GameTierce's posts Total posts till Tierce's death Tierce's posts/Total posts Fraction Percentage Number of slotsExpected percentageActual/Expected
Black Flag386180.066.1510100.61
Science 40 277 0.14 14 7 14.29 0.98
Possessed Pastors 77 1104 0.07 7 13 7.69 0.91
Abarat 31 1091 0.03 3 23 4.35 0.69
Doctor Who 57 559 0.1 10 13 7.69 1.3
Exp. Role 105 1875 0.06 6 23 4.35 1.38
Paranoia 359 3810 0.09 9 20 5 1.8
Newbie 1209 110 677 0.16 16 9 11.11 1.44
Pick your Power 45 842 0.05 5 14 7.14 0.7



TOWN

[/row]
GameTierce's posts Total posts till Tierce's death Tierce's posts/Total posts Fraction Percentage Number of slotsExpected percentageActual/Expected
Mafia in Trip. 95 450 0.21 21 9 11.11 1.89
Dresden Files 103 1499 0.07 7 18 5.56 1.26
Micro 51 112 366 0.31 31 5 20 1.55
Reserse Mafia 76 673 0.11 11 13 7.69 1.43
Newbie 1289 75 459 0.16 16 9 11.11 0.02
Micro 12 58 559 0.1 10 9 11.11 0.9
Arkham Horror 61 322 0.19 19 13 7.69 2.47
MLP: FIR 82 902 0.09 9 15 6.67 0.6
Catch-22 277 2376 0.12 12 22 4.55 2.64



Plot of Scum vs Town Games
:

Image


Current game
:

1) Aeris Vote: Based on my Aeris vote, if it was bad, I'd reasonably expect Tierce as town to attack me instantly for it, and refute my explanation and keep probing as to whether it had scum motivation. Instead, she just made a passing comment and used it as another point in her favor. It seems more like a race to count off how many inconsistencies she can nail as opposed to a puzzle-solving mode of trying to understand motivations which she often takes as scum.

2) Me saying Parama is scum:

When I say "
I am certain Parama is scum
,"

Tierce responds with: "
More posturing. Let's make sure that Parama lynch goes through
!"

Based on Tierce's town games, I would overwhelmingly expect Tierce as town to ask "why is Parama scum?" and when I give my answer, probe into the motivation for that, refute it, argue with it, etc. Instead she asks no questions to figure out my affiliation but rather chalked it up as a point in her favor.

3) Me attacking a lurker. I was town in Micro 51 and attacked a lurker. As I mentioned, Tierce's post was this: #57. Notice how she tries to get into what I was thinking by explaining how I lurked in another game as town and how it not a scumtell. She further elaborates on how lurking may not be indicative of affiliation. Compare that to here. She quotes my post and says "
Look at how much he's blowing the Trevor case out of proportion
" - and leaves it at that. She collects it as a point in her favor rather than use it to promote discussion to figure out my motivations.

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