Mini 1401 - Game over!

[d3x]

@mala- in those games referenced, did both parties flip scum, just the one being defended, or just the one defending {also, links plz with specific reference to the part you're refering}?

[Malakittens]

Did both parties flip scum? No.
The person who was being defended was town.
The person who was constantly trying to defend the defender was scum.

ISO Om.

Since I'm off my phone I can't find the second game offhand.

---

@Con:

Just letting you know you are now giving me a bad vibe. First off you are not explaining any of your reads. You are starting to agree with everyone.

[d3x]

so you are contending that because of that interaction, SiN=probable scum? i'm having a hard time following you here. why are you focusing on asking conman about this if the scumtell is towards SiN? add to that, why haven't you given that read of SiN? you said way back when that you had a hard time reading hydras, still nothing? it's like you're building a soft case against conman based off of weak scumtells that don't apply to them.

[Malakittens]

I do have a hard time reading hydras in general which is why I don't yet have a well established read on him. I'm basically watching SiN because of his defense of Con.

I'm wondering why Con left out SiN from a post list. If someone went to give reads and left two people out.. You wouldn't want to question it and get answers as to why? The SK answer satisifed me, but the SiN did not.

I'm not building a soft case against anyone. I have questions and I'd like answers. Why do you have a problem with that?

It's not only Con that I'm questioning. I do want answers from Q also now that new facts came out of Con's posts.

I'm honestly surprised that no one else caught that he left two players out of a read, but he labeled two players who have been posting as "undecided".

[d3x]

i don't really have a problem with it, but it does strike me that you are referencing multiple past games for a scumtell, but you're seemingly not worried about the player that they indict. you've stated {now multiple times} that you have no read on SiN, but you aren't asking them anything in spite of the tell you're claiming is the specific nature of your line of questioning to another player. do you prefer getting reads passively or actively?

[Malakittens]

I like to learn from mistakes. If someone is constantly going to defend someone I wouldn't forget about them and I surely wouldn't have not forgot to list them on a list. Con forgetting SiN doesn't strike odd to you?

Yet you seem over worried that it might indict a certain player.

I get reads both ways honestly.

[d3x]

conman forgetting SiN doesn't strike me as odd, no. conman strikes me as vi. i would say it's easier to forget those defending you than attacking you, esp as vi.

i'll come right out and say that i don't read conman as scummy. i think he's being pushed as a policy lynch {with scum backing the move, imo} and i'm against policy lynches.

who exactly am i worried about getting indicted?

[Slandaar]

@slandaar- do you really feel that the best use of your vote is on me at this point in the game {latestage rvs}? do you not feel that there's enough happening to comment much? you've been riding that conman vote for ages, do you feel that my entrance into the game has diminished conman's scum potential or are you planning on hopping right back on? i'm not seeing a whole lot of content from you, recently a lot of scumteam speculation w/o much else.

I have been voting conman for ages, what was my vote accomplishing?

Your entrance into the game obviously changed nothing re Conman and yep I will hop back on later probably. What does this tell you?

[Slandaar]

Absta is town btw

Explain plz.

He was too annoyed with me for voting him earlier. Chasing me to the ends of the earth etc is town.

[Huntress]

Just bringing my case on Kthxbye up to date from my post 119:

Since then he has suggested possible follow-ups to a Conman flip; says he "Can't argue the sound logic of qwints" even though Qwints' case on Ace was based on Conman being VI rather than scum; said SiN was acting odd; and done nothing else other than continuing to push for a lynch on Conman. That is: no scumhunting and no other reads, which reinforces earlier concerns that his declared eagerness to scumhunt was fake. He's the highest poster in the game but has contributed precious little to it apart from complaining about "lack of activity", the epitome of active lurking. I'm more sure of him being scum than I am of anyone else at the moment.

[Huntress]

@huntress- i find it odd that you agreed with what my predecessor said about conman and yet you setup a scum connection between the two at the same time, that seems to be at odds. I also find it odd that out of SK, SiN, absta, & meph, et al, you are picking meph and absta for the 2nd look over.

and of course by odd, i mean scummy.

Why does it seem at odds? As for picking Meph and absta first, in Meph's case there were a couple of associative tells which put him slightly ahead of SiN and SK; in absta's case it was the fact that I'm suspicious of him but don't think he is scum with Kthx, and that I got the feeling that he was avoiding giving an opinion on Conman.

[Kthxbye]

Just bringing my case on Kthxbye up to date from my post 119:

Since then he has suggested possible follow-ups to a Conman flip; says he "Can't argue the sound logic of qwints" even though Qwints' case on Ace was based on Conman being VI rather than scum; said SiN was acting odd; and done nothing else other than continuing to push for a lynch on Conman. That is: no scumhunting and no other reads, which reinforces earlier concerns that his declared eagerness to scumhunt was fake. He's the highest poster in the game but has contributed precious little to it apart from complaining about "lack of activity", the epitome of active lurking. I'm more sure of him being scum than I am of anyone else at the moment.

Then you are either really poor town or scum with conman. Tell me huntress, do you feel conman is town? If so, what good is he to you in a lylo situation? How can you trust his actions come later days if he is not lynched.

The only way conman doesn't reach lylo is if we lynch him. His posts, all of them, are shrouded in over reaction and scummy behavior. Scum won't nk him due to this.

[Kthxbye]

The more I think about it, the more and more I don't like everyone so easily buying into this village idiot garbage. I find it very odd that everyone is so willing to enter night with Conman alive. I still need to re-read this game and especially focus on the quick push away from the Conman lynch.

[havingfitz]

Vote Conman people.

[qwints]

Conman's survival at this stage is proof positive he's scum. I was thrown by a couple of the votes against him, but I'm now firmly back to believing he's scum.

[Malakittens]

Yet you didn't answer the question that I directed at you Qwints.

[qwints]

Sorry, I missed it.

@Qwints:

Now knowing that Conman left two people out of his original read list and has now given a read on them both.. Do you still think the three people you mentioned are a likely team? If so, why?

Yes. I don't think scum-Conman forgets his teammates when listing his reads.

[absta101]

UNVOTE:
Starting over from here.

[Nobody Special]

Hmmm.

unvote

I'll re-read SiN's post about Conman and look at fitz and read some more stuff.

Later today.

[Kthxbye]

UNVOTE:
Starting over from here.

Starting over? Really? ok, well, I'm sure Conman either won't post anything and lurk or post more scummy shit. Either way, his spot is where my vote will be parked till he's lynched.

Confirm VOTE: Conman

[TheConman17]

I am on my phone right now an I will post more later but for now

Mod: Vote Count

[Huntress]

Then you are either really poor town or scum with conman. Tell me huntress, do you feel conman is town? If so, what good is he to you in a lylo situation? How can you trust his actions come later days if he is not lynched.

The only way conman doesn't reach lylo is if we lynch him. His posts, all of them, are shrouded in over reaction and scummy behavior. Scum won't nk him due to this.

I guess your first sentence means you that you don't have a reply to post 359 as I can't think what else the "Then" might apply to. Yes, I'm leaning null to town on Conman. If it came to lylo I'd trust him more than you as things are at the moment. At least he is trying. And you are still giving me the impression that you don't think he is actually scum.

@ Qwints:

Why did you ignore the question I asked you in post 257, and referred to in post 302? Did anything come of the re-read you said you were going to do in post 299?

Yes. I don't think scum-Conman forgets his teammates when listing his reads.

What basis do you have for saying this?

[d3x]

I have been voting conman for ages, what was my vote accomplishing?

Well, assuming you think he's Scum, it's pushing the Wagon. I find this questionable b/c you seem to be jumping off the Wagon for a seemingly late RVS vote w/o adding any substance. Your Iso also stinks, in case you were wondering. Why have you been riding that Conman vote for so long? Your vote post said... "yeah". Please note, I don't want you to say 'I agreed with fitz et al, I want you to state your reasons for thinking he's Scum.

Why does it seem at odds?

I find it at odds b/c you happen to agree with the stance meph was taking. Assuming you're not Scum, I find it contrary to say 'I agree' with one side of your mouth and 'If we're both wrong, you're Scum' with the other.

UNVOTE:
Starting over from here.

Why? In what capacity?

All that said...UNVOTE: VOTE: Slandaar

[AngryPidgeon]

Vote Tally 1.9

TheConman17 (L - 4):

havingfitz, qwints, Kthxbye

havingfitz (L - 5):

Singer is Nachomamma, TheConman17

Malakittens (L - 6):

Saint Kerrigan

KthxBye (L - 6):

Huntress

Slandaar (L - 6):

d3x

Nobody Special (L - 6):

Gorgon

absta101 (L - 6):

Malakittens

d3x (L - 6):

Slandaar

Pacifists (Not Voting):

absta101, Nobody Special

V/LA: Saint Kerrigan. My prod was actually misplaced.

((expired on 2012-12-24 23:59:59))

Saint Kerrigan (L - 7):

Gorgon (L - 7):

Singer is Nachomamma (L - 7):

qwints (L - 7):

Huntress (L - 7):

[Singer is Nachomamma]

why are you defending Conman so hard?

Because he's a townread and you are lynching him. Why shouldn't I defend a townread?

Why as scum, if Conman was town, do you think I would essentially tunnel him and make myself part of his mislynch? I thought you knew me better than that.

It's a mislynch that a lot of people see eye to eye with you about, and you've postured yourself for not really being to blame if conman flips town. It's just like the Arugula mislynch and the PM mislynch in that newbie game we played, which I can dig up again if you've forgotten.

Why do I need lynched for my opinions towards Conman?

Because it's all you have. You haven't really explained reads on anyone but Conman. People keep saying that we need a flip right now, but we don't. We need more people to participate.

sell me. instead of telling me which wagon i should join, i'd like the people on the 3 largest to tell me why the other wagons are bunk. those not on the wagons {see below} are also welcome to answer this.

you'll have to ISO me for Conman wagon reasons; I've talked about them a lot.
I don't actually understand the mala wagon reasoning, but there was a weird interaction between absta/mala that made it seem like they read each other as scum a lot and it's all sort of useless.

Conman's survival at this stage is proof positive he's scum. I was thrown by a couple of the votes against him, but I'm now firmly back to believing he's scum.

No, fuck no. This is bad.