Mini 1401 - Game over!

[Slandaar]

You didn't have numbers in front of each point, but that doesn't matter when you list them. I broke them down for ease of reference. I'd like to note that you didn't respond to the question, btw.

What question?

Note how Dex ignored my question; why does it matter if they are the same or different (it doesn't it still makes conman scum)

Why can you not look at your own case and tell me why the actions listed are scummy? You say the same thing twice and can't tell me why it's scummy either time? Your only responce is 'I didn't number my points'?

I can thanks.

This is what D3x ACTUALLY said/asked;

1- That is a ridiculous generalization. I've been able to follow what he's saying most of the time.
2- How is this a seperate point from 1?

Making no sense and having no reasoning is fairly similar, but really, who cares? who actually cares? it is still ridiculously scummy to have no actual reasoning behind what you are doing and then avoiding questions about the actions.

Now; What does it matter if its the same point?

It is also a thing people on the internet do. Even with your answer, I don't see how this is explicitly scummy. Hell, I could argue that fitz is trolling, with his "zzzzzzzzz" posting, his blatant tunnelling, his talk of wasted votes, and his attempts to shame people into voting Conman. I don't neccessarily think he's Scum for it.

If someone is joking through a whole game not taking anything seriously; is it scummy or just null because 'people on the internet do it' ?

Answer: scummy, why? because they are not taking any responsibility or accountability for their actions.

Same thing with trolling, they are close enough to the same thing, you are doing it to make it hard to read you; town don't need to do that. Occasional is a bit different, but the whole game? its scummy.

I seem to remember asking point by point how the actions you’ve listed are scummy.

You did not do that. I don’t see how this then becomes relevant. If you can’t tell me how the actions are scummy, I don’t think he’s done anything scummy. It then stands to reason that his poor play is caused not by him being Scum, but by being VI. All of the points you referenced in reasons to Vote him are more easily answered by poor play, not scummy play.

I don't seem to remember you asking that. Quote it.

Nope scummy not poor. Example; If he were just VI why didn't he just say 'I was joking' or 'it was random' etc etc to NS question about the voting pattern? instead of plain ignoring? he has nothing to hide, right?

I assume you have a rational explanation that doesn't involve VI VI hes a VI!!!

Even recent question avoiding backs this up substantially that was just the first one.

I will post later ran out of time for now.

[Huntress]

Really huntress? Nothing in my last post was logically based and just a smoke screen? This isn't the first time you've come to conmans defence btw. Any specific reason for that? Mind posting the reasons I'd need a smoke screen for anyway? Might get more votes that way...

I've already posted my case on you in post post 359, and I gave you my view on Conman in post 371. The smokescreen comment was self-explanatory.

Neither is fitz. Why vote Kthx and not fitz?

Qwints too. But I've only one vote and there's more to the case on Kthxbye than just that; besides which I'm not sure what I think of havingfitz yet. He seems a bit more town than the other two.


Slandaar's case against D3x started with post 168 but all Meph seemed to be admitting to in it was missing the connection with Conman's post. I don't see how this equates to "caught" scum or in any way justifies the emphasis Slandaar is giving it. Post 379 could have been a misunderstanding but after D3x explained himself in post 380 Slandaar just paraphrased his earlier post. He did a similar thing earlier when accusing me of taking Kthxbye out of context. Too much of his case against Conman involves painting him as a VI and calling him scummy for that. The whole feel of his play here seems different from a previous game we were both in.

Vote: Slandaar

[Singer is Nachomamma]

He seems a bit more town than the other two.

What makes him more town?

[Gorgon]

Slandaar actually feels somewhat convincing to me in his latest replies, while Conman continues to be unhelpful, following others with his votes, etc. For the record, I will support a Conman policy lynch if it comes down to it. I don't feel the need to change my vote just yet though.

[Malakittens]

Going to have a post later tonight. Mind has been more focused on school. Last day of that so this will change in the upcoming days.

[Slandaar]

Kindly refer back to Gorgon’s p405. Yeah, you answered, after someone voted you for dodging.

Actually I answered before as shown here;

Amazingly; Reasons can be found dotted through my ISO.

Say I dodged though, why would I when I can go and get 4 or 5 quotes in my ISO? explain why it is scummy.

I seem to remember asking point by point how the actions you’ve listed are scummy. You did not do that. I don’t see how this then becomes relevant. If you can’t tell me how the actions are scummy, I don’t think he’s done anything scummy. It then stands to reason that his poor play is caused not by him being Scum, but by being VI. All of the points you referenced in reasons to Vote him are more easily answered by poor play, not scummy play.

They are so blatantly obvious I shouldn't need to.

Here this is very very basic;
If the game was in RVS forever, the town would never get anywhere, ergo the RVS is proscum. If someone continually votes with no reasoning ie RVS voting then it is pro scum ie scummy.

Did you really need me to explain this to you? (rhetorical; of course you didn't)

No, I didn’t think it was part of the reasons you were voting him, as you failed to list this after you wrote…

Conman is scum because...

snip

Frankly, I thought it was commentary on ongoing conversation, which it was. If you’d like me to respond to that now, sure. If he’s Town, then he should have a legitimate concern for being MisLynched especially if so many people are tunnelling him.

Well I wasn't calling him town there; It seems pretty obvious to me that was a reason.

Anyways; You are ignoring the point

Town is at L-2: 'Oh no only 2 more votes till I am lynched! people might panic and lynch me...' because?

This is a question you need to answer; why would people panic and lynch him if he is town?

[Slandaar]

You do indeed have your reasons for suspecting Conman summed up somewhat in ISO, but the question/request that you clarify your reasons was nevertheless reasonable IMO. Reacting to it gives new information while simply referring back to what you've said earlier (which you btw didn't do until your next post, as far as I can tell) gives less information. I find d3x's stated MO of hunting through ongoing interaction valid. So I don't think the question was pointless and therefore your question is meaningless to me.

Ok nice waffle but the point was this;
If I have quotes in my ISO and tell him they are there what is scummy about not actually getting the quotes or writing out the reasoning ? (repeating myself)

[d3x]

@Slandaar- To be completely honest, I'm going to stop the semantics debate re: these last few posts. If people want to view that as scummy, then so be it. You're giving me a headache and I'm not going to continue the pissing match. I believe you are Scum and that is what it is. I've said my piece on the matter.

/inb4 Slandaar - "He's not answering b/c he can't...I've caught Scum...derp!"

This is a question you need to answer; why would people panic and lynch him if he is town?

Aside from what I've already said on the matter...

If he’s Town, then he should have a legitimate concern for being MisLynched especially if so many people are tunnelling him.

...I can only assume he means that it would be an easy MisLynch {ie- Scum jumping in with the Hammer}. I do not see any Scumtell behind this statement. I know what you are going to say {because you've already said it} and I disagree. He has already demonstrated a severe lack of knowledge when it comes to the mechanics of this game, imo. He has clearly demonstrated {to me and others} that he is a VI. I honestly doubt he'd see the inherant scummy nature of such a Hammer and the proTown tools it would give the rest of us.

@all- Slandaar is L-2. We have ~4 days left before deadline. You know what needs to be done.

[havingfitz]

Vote Conman

[Kthxbye]

@all- Slandaar is L-2. We have ~4 days left before deadline. You know what needs to be done.

Why yes, yes we do. Conman needs to be lynched....duh.

[SaintKerrigan]

I do not have reads on everyone yet, and once again I apologize. However, I've read enough to decide who I want lynched today.

Yesterday, I said I was against a Conman lynch, but I've changed my mind. My read on him is still closer to town newb than scum newb, but my desire to lynch him is not predicated by his alignment; rather, I think Conman's lynch, regardless of his flip, will benefit the town.

He is a major distraction to multiple players in this game, and some, I believe, will simply not be able to focus on much else until Conman is hung (Kthnxbye and havingfitz, to name a couple). There is plenty of information that we can garner from Conman's lynch. He has posted very little content despite being given multiple opportunities to do so, and when push comes to shove I'd rather not have to be prodding Conman into producing a sentence more than the bare minimum of a post.

I was willing to give him time before to see if he could bring more caliber to his posting, because I dislike the idea of policy lynching someone, but it's near the end of the day and that's plenty long enough. I believe that lynching him today is more beneficial to the town than letting him live under the pass of being a newb VI, even if I feel that he is probably town. With Conman six feet under, we can stop all this arguing about HE'S-SO-OBVIOUSLY-SCUM-IT-FUCKING-HURTS vs NO-HE'S-FUCKING-TOWN-GODDAMMIT-BACK-THE-FUCK-OFF and focus on some real (or at least more decent) scumhunting.

Unvote: Malakittens

(I believe this was who replaced aceofspades.)

I'm not ready to vote yet because I'd still like to finish and post my reads, so I don't want to risk a speedhammer before that happens; but when I'm ready, I fully intend to vote for Conman.

[Nobody Special]

If Conman does indeed flip scum, I'd be pretty convinced that SK just bussed the hell out of him.

[Slandaar]

Dex is clearly scum; as soon as I explain my reasoning which he has pestered me for he throws his toys out the pram and calls it semantics.

[Kthxbye]

@Slandaar: Is there a situation you could say it was town vs town between you 2?

[SaintKerrigan]

If Conman does indeed flip scum, I'd be pretty convinced that SK just bussed the hell out of him.

You drinking the kool-aid, bro?

[qwints]

Are we seriously considering lynching a player who's making actual cases and, you know, not being super obvious scum over a guy who refuses to engage and has about 6 unexplained opportunistic votes?

[Kthxbye]

Some are qwints, yes

[havingfitz]

I really would like to see Conman lynched but in the interest of maintaining my interest in this game...I figured it was worth taking a look at Conman's opposing wagon (Slandaar). Here is my crap-ISO:

#34 - ~RVS? vote on absta (I think it was at least)

belh bleh bleh

#57 - questions for Gorgon...something about something kthx said. Indicates his absta vote is legit.

#75 - Votes Conman for without rationale (sheeping prior 3 CM votes?)

#123 - Huntress is probably scum (why?)

#168 - lost

#230 - Says Huntress could be scum and Conman town.

#263 - Reiterates Huntress could be scum and Conman town...but that Conman still needs lynched.

#281 - absta is now town

#316 - Guessing at a Conman, SK and SiN team but votes D3x in the very next post (#317)

#379 - claims his vote on D3x was for a legitimate (Meph related) reason and he made it look random for reactions. In regards to Slandaar's "cognitive dissonace" argument towards D3x...I think his case is crap. I read D3x's Post 372 and there is nothing unusual about his comments. He did not call you scummy for voting "Conman for ages"...it was just an opbservation he made. He was questioning your move OFF conman onto an apparent RV on him [D3x]. Then he simply asks for your reasoning for originally voting conman. Nothing wrong with that. And he said "to push the wagon" if you thought he was scum. Which he then asked you for your reasoning about. This just seems like a crap case on D3x IMO (and that seems to be the consensus based on the support it is receiving).

And what about meph do you consider him getting caught and flaking over? Which apparently was your real (ie non-random) reason for voting D3x?

#382 - Slandaar's summary of, IMO, a bad case.

The rest of Slandaar's posts are essentially a back and forth (you're scummy, no you're scummy) argument with D3x.

Doing some ISOing of D3x AND Slandaar together show's rational comments by D3x along the same lines I would have thought if I'd been following this game (Zzzzzzzzzzzz) more closely. Specifically D3x's Post 380 and Post 381.

I still want to see Conman lynched but in the Slandaar vs D3x royale...Slandaar is the one leaning scum IMO.

@Slandaar

...which two players do you suspect aside from D3x?

[Slandaar]

#316 - Guessing at a Conman, SK and SiN team

I have been drinking so eh I will post tomorrow properly but this I don't remember saying; I have never thought that was the scum.

[qwints]

HF, Slandaar was disagreeing with me about the implications of Conman's list of reads. He wasn't stating broad conclusions.

[havingfitz]

If I had to guess based on Comans list I would guess a Conman/SK/SiN team.

Just sayin.

[qwints]

Yeah, that's the post I'm describing: see "If I had to guess based on Comans list".

[absta101]

VOTE: Conman
Fuck this.

[absta101]

Finish it.

[havingfitz]

Yeah, that's the post I'm describing: see "If I had to guess based on Comans list".

Well...it's as close to a list as I've seen from him hence my question on his two non-d3x reads.