Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[Human Destroyer]

Exactly my point.

P-Edit: I didn't think that was an AtE

[JacobSavage]

Ninja'd... really need to learn to read those posts when the stop me posting.

Also I've seen some mods be funny about it as it's possible you could say something that could affect their game.

[JacobSavage]

Again need to read posts fully as well....

To be fair it just looked that way to me. In my head it sounds like it's being spoke by someone close to tears.

[Docteur Gudsight]

Whether you consider it to be or not does it seem scummy beyond that? AtE isn't really a scum tell and amount of emotion used in posts is generally player dependent.

And yes players flipped in on going games means the game is still on going and shouldn't be discussed at all. Pointing things out about their play in that game can affect the game.

[KX]

On the subject of my being defensive, I respond to things. If you call that defensive, then yes, I am defensive, just by natural play style.

[JacobSavage]

See I don't know, half it reads townie but the fact that it was so.out.of the blue makes it look questionable.
For now I'll put it as leaning very slightly scum and.will come back to.it.later.

[JacobSavage]

It wasn't that you responed to them, it was that your response was so emotional that was what came out at me

[KX]

Also, for future reference, if I'm not swearing heavily, I'm not emotional. Like, at all. Everything I say should be read in a bored, slightly condescending tone.

[Venrob]

VOTE: Klick

This.

vote klick

[Human Destroyer]

^Is that a Klick meta thing?

If so, links and explanations required.

[goodmorning]

Whoops, have I been ignoring something? Alright, back to this game then. Um.

The KX point was weird, because it didn't really strike me as the sort of thing a scummy player would say. Awkward, yes. Scummy, no.
Seems a bit wishy-washy though. Conceded too much too early in 42: "Though I will confess upon re-reading it, I found it scummy myself." But leaning unconfident Town at the moment. Not seeing this as particularly overemotional like Jacob does.

The serra point is a bit "what?" inspiring but overall seems to be something of a valid question if it is referring to Klick's playstyle in general rather than here in specific.
Clarification from the author?

As to Jacob's thing on flips in ongoing games, this post gets into something similar, which is how to address people lurking without mentioning ongoing games they're unlurking in. It's a letter vs. spirit of the law issue. YMMMV _{(Your Mod Mileage May Vary)}

I'm not liking the seemingly random votes drifting onto HD here, he's looking pretty Town so far and I am vaguely inclined to wonder whether KX or Nic knew precisely what they were doing.

UNVOTE: HD

There are two players who have yet to post. One of them, I am assuming, has still not confirmed. The other...
He has no excuse for lurking right now. Therefore,

VOTE: Ven

If you are out there, stop being out there and be in here instead.

P-EDIT: Ninja'd, but my vote will stay on Ven because he failed to post for so long, and because a vote on an unconfirmed will do no good as they shan't see it. Also seconding HD on 59.

[Venrob]

Not meta, just scummy. In one game a cheating mod had me replaced before 48 hours to respond to prod and he replaced me (470). Got back in cuz mod cheated, and that is town meta anyway. Self-voting means Jester or scum imo. Thus my vote.

Also about me: Just so you read me more accurately, I have a type of autism reffered to as aspergers. I play a bit oddly, so check my meta before reading me too in-depth. Check my wiki for my meta.

P-edit
I just logged on for first time since i confirmed... A game or 2 ago i first logged on at 7 pages and wasnt the last to post anything other than 'hey im here [insert RVS vote]
fluff'
And now i get on at page 3 and get voted for lurking? I'd vote you if not for having no reason other than omgus. Well, no SOLID reason...

[JacobSavage]

Think that's bad: One game I was in by the time I got to.it in the morning 17 pages... Face desk.(speaking of which its probably bed time soon....)

Venrob describe your play in one sentance.

[Cheery Dog]

^Is that a Klick meta thing?

If so, links and explanations required.

I think he does it in all open games, generally to make people discuss something and not just random vote.

[JacobSavage]

Also just a couple of.things about your wiki.
1. Don't ever put down what role you have claimed / alignment until your game is ended.
2. Some people put flips as they happen down. I think your supposed to wait til it's over before you put anything.
So for example in Bitmaps game you should leave it blank.

[Docteur Gudsight]

goodmorning out of the now 12 who have posted who's actually scummy?

~M

[Venrob]

Stupid internet... stopped letting me post! Fixed it. About the wiki: I cant write what i claimed in thread? I need to make people dig for my claim? That's stupid.

My play in one sentence?
Very odd with false scumtells seen where i cant tell and what people tell me is bad play, though i highly disagree because its just how i play.
Check it- run on sentence, but just one.

Now as for in a nice description:
I play odd enough for people to call me scum as town and town as scum (check open 428- absta was such an idiot). I can make good plays (472 i claimed mason as vt and scum shot me (in that game when scum shoots vt the scum dies)). I can be bad in LYLO (Phineas and Ferb mafia, to be fair i replaced in). Sometimes people get accurate reads on me (lylo of 428- all the town except absta thought i was scum). As for my scumhunting skills, not much untill day 2 or three, or when the first scum dies. My brain works differently than most, so i hunt differently. Dont try and have me explain how i hunt, it would take a while to type and also i dont really know how i do it myself lol. I'd have to ISO myself in several different games to figure it out (its mostly subconscious hunting).

LONG POST IS LONG

Anyway as i said im not much use untill day 2 or 3. Now, further questions about me?

[Cheery Dog]

There are masons and suicidal abilities in pick your poison?

Assuming you're actually talking about 470 (masons and mafia), scum didn't shoot you and I don't think anyone believed that they did either, I know you weren't on my mason reads list that game, and as the only person here that also played that game (unless you count klick stealing your slot), that's a great big whopping lie and deserves voted more than my hate of klick's self voting.

unvote, vote venrob

[serrapaladin]

"Ouch" to whoever is calling my first post's scumhunting bad. I was genuinely wondering whether Klick usually does "odd" things like self-RV, but decided to do so flippantly as it was still an RVS post. Anyhow, on to business:

Docteur: Nice job setting up your vote on me over three posts.

KX's last four posts aren't great - he's really trying to set up a scum defense. "Sometimes I'll post things which don't exactly look the best, or which contradict things I've already said or the facts" may be one of the worst sentences I've heard in a game of Mafia. To me, it reads as "I know I'll scumslip, but it'll totally be because I'm a VI." I'm not yet sure if he's self-aware VI or scum, but a wagon on him is probably a good thing.

Venrob: Misrepping your own meta is some grade-A bullshit. Messing up a game number I understand, but the mod posted the list of targets in 470 and you did not attract a scum shot. That's not something you accidentally forget or misquote, that's deliberately giving people a wrong impression of you.

HD and Klick wagons don't seem great (read: completely unsubstantiated) - Venrob planting his vote on Klick with no original input is bad. I think I'll:
VOTE: Venrob

[Josh Lyman]

You guys are arguing over nothing. I can't wait till the game gets really going. You guys are gonna break my monitor.

[KX]

It's Day 1 and Page 3 . . . is there anything more then nothing to argue over?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the argument for lynching a VI would be that they're stupid, can't do anything, and hurt the town in the long run, or are mafia, and so the best option in either case, provided a better target is not present, is to lynch them, correct? Well, since the first part doesn't apply, I'm not stupid, I will contribute decently intelligently, and due my policy of honesty, it should be pretty easy to get a read on me. If you have any other reasons to propose a lynch on me, or to say my explanation does not eliminate your point, then explain them.

And one more thing I'd like to object to is you describing what I've explained as scumslipping. What I am likely to do is not scum slip, but instead change opinions and/or make mistakes. These do not make one scum; They make one human. Since I tend not to proof read what I type, in order for the message I want to convey to be gotten without me changing it based on over thinking, it means I'm extremely prone to this. Only in a few cases (in depth analyzing of another) will I check facts before posting, and so I'll go off memory, which for me is pretty bad, or impressions, which vary drastically for me as new information is presented. Simply put, I just tell the truth.

On the subject of your lynching Venrob, I agree with it, but lying about how a game went, especially when a player who was in the game is in the new one, in, as you seem to imply, an attempt to misrepresent his past play, seems like a really, really stupid idea. So while I won't say there are no idiots on the internet, as that would make me one, I will question weather or not we believe he possesses that level of short-sightedness, or if there is an alternate explanation. And on voting in general,

Unvote

. I think it's clear I do not wish for HD to be lynched, and that their are people who I may want to soon have it on.

[serrapaladin]

KX: Town tends to have no incentive not to be genuine, particularly in an open setup like this one. Scum is trying to avoid detection and association with their scumbuddies. They have information and intention beyond that of townies, so scum is more likely to lie about or misrepresent what is visible in the thread. If someone blatantly contradicts themselves, that's a scum slip. If a townie is genuine about their train of thought, they should come up with pretty much consistent conclusions across multiple posts. Scum can get metaphorically tangled up in their web of lies, or simply forget about what lies they told.

Preemptively explaining inconsistencies between your posts by saying it's part of your playstyle strikes me as scummy, particularly as you have no meta we could check that against.

[KX]

There are a few examples of meta you could look at, though they're from a different site. Unfortunately, the best example is an ongoing game, and so can't be used. If you wish to see the one example which can be presented, though it was my first mafia game with no outside contact allowed, either me or HD can link it. Hopefully when I make a mistake or change an opinion, should it happen at all, it will be obvious as genuinely those things, and not due to a failed attempt at manipulation.

[CityElectric]

Votecount 1.2

Venrob (L-4):

goodmorning, Cheery Dog, serrapaladin

Klick (L-4):

Klick, JacobSavage, Venrob

Human Destroyer (L-6):

NicCage

KX (L-6):

Human Destroyer

ArcAngel9 (L-6):

Josh Lyman

Cheery Dog (L-6):

ArcAngel9

serrapaladin (L-6):

Docteur Gudsight

Not voting (7):

Spencer22, KX

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-02-06 11:00:00)

And yes players flipped in on going games means the game is still on going and shouldn't be discussed at all. Pointing things out about their play in that game can affect the game.

Mehdi is right. Please do not discuss on-going games.

[Spencer22]

Wow,Sorry for not posting. I'll be a little more regular here. Due to fact, this is my first game.So let's begin shall we.

Ok, We have to find the scum!

I would like to everyone to tell me why you are town, and why! It's hard to build a case with the info we have at the moment. I'm predetermination will help us figure out it. The rest of you with you,with participation by the people of the town, We will, get to the bottom of this!