Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[Human Destroyer]

Quote the statements you find useful please.

[KX]

For clarification once again: When I say I trust HD the most our of everybody, that do not means I trust him. All that I mean is I trust him more then the rest of you, since I know him and so could judge him better. Also, I don't really get the problem with what I said: I'm enlightening the rest of the game on how I tend to play. No matter what, I can't prove myself as village, and being an impossible goal, was not my intention. Should this not be my normal play style, and so I'm lying about meta, HD could easily object, unless people mean to imply that we're both lying, the only possible reason for being we're both scum. At this early phase, since once again, neither of us are stupid, we wouldn't try such an event which could out us so early.

Anyway, pretty much what I mean to say from all of this is that I'm only explaining my play style, it being impossible to clean myself so early, and that if I'm lying, you would know via HD. Now, just because the way I play is what some consider scummy, just my pointing it out doesn't make me clean. Thing is, it also shouldn't make me suspicious. Either way, it doesn't provide any information towards my alignment which can't be second-guessed, and so the only outcome one should get from it is information about my play.

Let me put it like this: I have two possible ways to play, both with advantages as scum and village:

I can either check my posts, and make them all careful and calculated, trying to subtly accomplish goals, avoid slipping up, etc. As village, it could establish me as a strong leader, give my opinions more voice, which if I have confidence in their correctness would be a good thing, and over all hopefully have a positive effect on the game. It would also prevent people from suspecting me as much and so not waste people's time. Downsides are that if I slip up about anything, it would be hard to explain.

As scum, playing in such a style would be useful as it would allow me to use the information I possessed to attempt to control and manipulate the game, shifting attention from my partners in an attempt to cause mislynches. I would be unlikely to be lynched myself, which for a mafioso is a great thing, and would give me voice. Overall, all helpful things. Some might question me, but as long as I stayed calm, which I could definitely do, hopefully there would be no harm. Worst case scenario, I get lynched, in which case I can put traps on misinformation into my posts.

The second option would be the one I have chosen:

Simply say what I think and feel, attempting honesty at all times. Explain myself and my actions to players, attempting to eliminate criticism that's unfounded and provide opinions. Most likely I won't have much voice, and my opinions won't me as much. Also, due to how it works, generally most suspect me. Plus are though that should I live to late game, most should get a very good read on me, and so at that point it would be highly advantages. Also, as it seems to have done already, it tends to generate much discussion. Also, the reason why I picked it, it's simpler to do, and I'm lazy.

This option would also be good as scum though. As mentioned, if I can get through initial criticism and play well, it could lead to a late-game victory, and the general suspicion and so chance of being a lynch target would be a good reason for why I wasn't getting killed. All actions would seem pro village, and as long as I avoided partnering with my scumbuddies, it would have a high chance of success. Also, especially via explaining this whole set-up, it provides a great fake-out play. Nobody would expect a scum to do this and then ruin the strategy by explaining it all, and too choose the option which, of the two scum options, at first seems the lesser, and then make it out to be the greater.

Point being, there are valid explanations for playing just about any way for any side, and so based off an early game announcement of one's play style, it's extremely hard and really just luck what you get from it, at least in a situation with a player like me who dissects the game. All you can get is an idea how they should play, and then see if it holds up. And don't point out the irony of me choosing this style because it's easier, then making these tl;dr posts. I realize it, and it's since I can just type without thinking, even if it takes a while to type.

[Human Destroyer]

KX, please stop talking about your own playstyle and scumhunt instead, thanks.

[serrapaladin]

Quote the statements you find useful please.

49 and 55 are decent enough. At least he's somewhat engaging with the game. He's done more than Josh, NicCage, Spencer and Venrob, so I didn't find his Klick vote particularly concerning at this point. So what's the rationale you promised in 97?

[Human Destroyer]

I wanted to see if you would apply a double standard.

Which you didn't.

Which is points in your favor.

[KX]

Also, forgive me if I'm not participating as much in presenting my opinions on others. Though I know it's not optimally helpful for the game, I like to have a little to go off of before I start judging people, and I justify the lack of such activity with the fact that my own posts about myself hopefully generate as much if not more discussion then me posting about other players. Something I left out of the most recent post is that with the latter style as scum, the fact that most scum wouldn't want to draw attention and close criticism is both a reason to not play as such while scum and another helpful part of the reverse-psychological aspect.

Oh cool, @HD somebody responding with the point as I type my response to it.

[Klick]

Also about me: Just so you read me more accurately, I have a type of autism reffered to as aspergers.

Mind=blown

I have it too.

Reading up.

[ArcAngel9]

For clarification once again: When I say I trust HD the most our of everybody, that do not means I trust him. All that I mean is I trust him more then the rest of you, since I know him and so could judge him better. Also, I don't really get the problem with what I said: I'm enlightening the rest of the game on how I tend to play. No matter what, I can't prove myself as village, and being an impossible goal, was not my intention. Should this not be my normal play style, and so I'm lying about meta, HD could easily object, unless people mean to imply that we're both lying, the only possible reason for being we're both scum. At this early phase, since once again, neither of us are stupid, we wouldn't try such an event which could out us so early.

Anyway, pretty much what I mean to say from all of this is that I'm only explaining my play style, it being impossible to clean myself so early, and that if I'm lying, you would know via HD. Now, just because the way I play is what some consider scummy, just my pointing it out doesn't make me clean. Thing is, it also shouldn't make me suspicious. Either way, it doesn't provide any information towards my alignment which can't be second-guessed, and so the only outcome one should get from it is information about my play.

Let me put it like this: I have two possible ways to play, both with advantages as scum and village:

I can either check my posts, and make them all careful and calculated, trying to subtly accomplish goals, avoid slipping up, etc. As village, it could establish me as a strong leader, give my opinions more voice, which if I have confidence in their correctness would be a good thing, and over all hopefully have a positive effect on the game. It would also prevent people from suspecting me as much and so not waste people's time. Downsides are that if I slip up about anything, it would be hard to explain.

As scum, playing in such a style would be useful as it would allow me to use the information I possessed to attempt to control and manipulate the game, shifting attention from my partners in an attempt to cause mislynches. I would be unlikely to be lynched myself, which for a mafioso is a great thing, and would give me voice. Overall, all helpful things. Some might question me, but as long as I stayed calm, which I could definitely do, hopefully there would be no harm. Worst case scenario, I get lynched, in which case I can put traps on misinformation into my posts.

The second option would be the one I have chosen:

Simply say what I think and feel, attempting honesty at all times. Explain myself and my actions to players, attempting to eliminate criticism that's unfounded and provide opinions. Most likely I won't have much voice, and my opinions won't me as much. Also, due to how it works, generally most suspect me. Plus are though that should I live to late game, most should get a very good read on me, and so at that point it would be highly advantages. Also, as it seems to have done already, it tends to generate much discussion. Also, the reason why I picked it, it's simpler to do, and I'm lazy.

This option would also be good as scum though. As mentioned, if I can get through initial criticism and play well, it could lead to a late-game victory, and the general suspicion and so chance of being a lynch target would be a good reason for why I wasn't getting killed. All actions would seem pro village, and as long as I avoided partnering with my scumbuddies, it would have a high chance of success. Also, especially via explaining this whole set-up, it provides a great fake-out play. Nobody would expect a scum to do this and then ruin the strategy by explaining it all, and too choose the option which, of the two scum options, at first seems the lesser, and then make it out to be the greater.

Point being, there are valid explanations for playing just about any way for any side, and so based off an early game announcement of one's play style, it's extremely hard and really just luck what you get from it, at least in a situation with a player like me who dissects the game. All you can get is an idea how they should play, and then see if it holds up. And don't point out the irony of me choosing this style because it's easier, then making these tl;dr posts. I realize it, and it's since I can just type without thinking, even if it takes a while to type.

Wait, so you’re saying that you Trust HD and you don’t him too. And If I understood you correctly… your play style is mainly trusting him and playing for him too is your play style. That’s awfully confusing!!! Look, I am happy that you found someone to put your faith blindly and believe them as townie and trust them and not trust them at the same time but this is not helping anyone.

Your post looks very emotional and HD response to your post is pretty null. No offense that this relation of yours with HD is vague. I am not complaining or either asking why you trust him but all this talk and giving free pass to HD because your personal is not the right game play.

And that is very scummy too. But It’s your choice how you want to play. I have one question for you.. so, What do you do if HD flips Scum?

[Venrob]

Also about me: Just so you read me more accurately, I have a type of autism reffered to as aspergers.

Mind=blown

I have it too.

Reading up.

And so does Whiskers....

I'm asperger's. nice to meet you.

So, could you know that?

[KX]

ArcAngel9, y u no reading comprehension?

What I'm saying is I have no clear idea of how any of you will play, while I have a slight idea how HD will play. That means I can understand the way he posts a little better then for everybody else, and so I trust him more. I still don't trust him, but in comparison to the rest of you, he's the one I think, at this time, I could most accurately judge. So, I trust him to be understandable, not a certain alignment. If he flipped scum, as I've already stated, I'm not the best at getting reads off of feelings, and so I wouldn't be surprised. I won't follow him blindly, and want you to show me were in my posts I say I will. Our relation is that we've played mafia together and talked on a different site.

[KX]

Also, to add on, I am not understanding at all where people are getting my posts being emotional from. Even if it's a single sentence, I would like somebody to show me exactly what makes it seem that way.

[ArcAngel9]

ArcAngel9, y u no reading comprehension?

What I'm saying is I have no clear idea of how any of you will play, while I have a slight idea how HD will play. That means I can understand the way he posts a little better then for everybody else, and so I trust him more. I still don't trust him, but in comparison to the rest of you, he's the one I think, at this time, I could most accurately judge. So, I trust him to be understandable, not a certain alignment. If he flipped scum, as I've already stated, I'm not the best at getting reads off of feelings, and so I wouldn't be surprised. I won't follow him blindly, and want you to show me were in my posts I say I will. Our relation is that we've played mafia together and talked on a different site.

Well , that was my understanding based on your post.
And my point is, Why you trust him instead of giving benefit of doubt. If he is scum, He would obviously going to use you as his shield as you already appears like that you will come in his defense when he is going to need you.

[ArcAngel9]

Also, to add on, I am not understanding at all where people are getting my posts being emotional from. Even if it's a single sentence, I would like somebody to show me exactly what makes it seem that way.

Haven't you given a thought that others may be right about that?

[KX]

City, why must

2. Do not insult your fellow players.

be a rule?

Anyway, I'll answer said question only if another user wishes to know the answer. Otherwise, I'm just going to stop talking with you, and leave you with the request that you think about my posts and what's your saying very carefully.

[CityElectric]

City, why must

2. Do not insult your fellow players.

be a rule?

Because, unfortunately, you can't always trust people to remember this is just a game on the internet, so there is no need to go throwing around personal insults.

[KX]

can I insult people provided it is obviously impersonal and I have no intention to offend by doing so?

[Klick]

Also about me: Just so you read me more accurately, I have a type of autism reffered to as aspergers.

Mind=blown

I have it too.

Reading up.

And so does Whiskers....

I'm asperger's. nice to meet you.

So, could you know that?

...

[ArcAngel9]

Is there any one also thinks That KX is posts are null or Is it just me?

[Josh Lyman]

KX: You are far too self-introspective. Mafia is a game of logic and argumentation, and one is supposed to engage with other players and determine things about

other players,

not endlessly ramble on and on and on and on and on and ON about how they themselves play.

Now, if you'll kindly STFU about yourself, and start playing the game, I, for one, will be much happier.

P-Edit: Arcangel, no, I think it's scummy. It's a way to focus not on the game and yet appear active.

[Human Destroyer]

And yet your vote remains in RVS.

Noted.

[Josh Lyman]

I WAS ANGRY AND UNABLE TO REMEMBER TO VOTE

Vote: KX

(Thanks. I forgot.)

[Cheery Dog]

Is there any one also thinks That KX is posts are null or Is it just me?

I think they actually point to town, unhelpful town, but town nonetheless. Though if they keep up the posturing it'll quickly go the other way, so yeah I guess null is a fair assessment for now.

[Josh Lyman]

ITT Cheery Dog is wrong.

So, so wrong.

Very wrong.

[Docteur Gudsight]

Docteur: Nice job setting up your vote on me over three posts.

That's a nice way to make it sound eviler then it is. I pointed out a weak scum read on you and when the other scum read changed I voted you.

I agree with the dog. Start playing the game when he is responding to AA who asked about it and that he's naturally going to move to something else (mostly because it's hard to talk about yourself forever). That and lack of HD calling it a lie I'll go with it's believable for his meta and comes off really genuine to me to see him post all that just for the sake of wanting clarity.

HD what did you think of serra's answer beyond lack of double standard? Would you call it actually useful things she linked to? (along with the done more then list of as of then lurkers which not lurking is somehow a town tell)

~M

[Human Destroyer]

HD what did you think of serra's answer beyond lack of double standard? Would you call it actually useful things she linked to?

1) The double standard part was really the important thing about the answer; I didn't really see anything particularly town or scum other than that tidbit.

2) I'd describe them more as "trying to be useful".