Mini 1415: Fairly Oddparents Mafia Game Over

[Balrog]

Then why did you feel the need to point out that you do it as town?

[Human Destroyer]

Because you said that the fact that I was doing it made me scum.

I was saying I do it as town also.

[-L-]

VOTE: PV

Balrog is backburnered for now. Following the mass now.

[-L-]

But you don't really, HD.

[Human Destroyer]

Look through my games (well most of them anyway) then come back to me.

I think I've gotten better at refraining from spamposting but it still happens.

[Balrog]

"Let me just say a bunch of words now that I'm under scrutiny" strikes me as nervous, like the person who does it has something to hide.

I'm pretty sure town have nothing to hide, particularly in an open setup such as this one.

[Seanald]

your mothers hiding under my bed....

[Human Destroyer]

"Let me just say a bunch of words now that I'm under scrutiny" strikes me as nervous, like the person who does it has something to hide.

I'm pretty sure town have nothing to hide, particularly in an open setup such as this one.

You first made the jump to me being nervous, then made another jump from that to I have something to hide

Your logic is baseless

[Balrog]

"Let me just say a bunch of words now that I'm under scrutiny" strikes me as nervous, like the person who does it has something to hide.

I'm pretty sure town have nothing to hide, particularly in an open setup such as this one.

You first made the jump to me being nervous, then made another jump from that to I have something to hide

Your logic is baseless

Sorry, I thought you understood how Mafia is played. My fault for making such a presumption.

[Balrog]

This game is reminding me why I hate MS's meta.

[MrZepher]

Well, if I'm wrong about one of them, I'd accept captaineddie as a replacement scum.

Why not Benmage?

[MrZepher]

To clarify, I mean why Eddie over say Benmage?

Also as squeamish as HD gets I see town motivation in his content posts.
While it's not unlikely that he could be scum, I think it's a stretch to assume that currently...

[Balrog]

I haven't seen Benmage do anything scummy.

[Sanjay]

I was looking through HD's posts to see if Balrog was on to something. I didn't really see what Balrog was saying. (If you are talking about the action post 488 onward, I don't really see how HD's frequent posting is better explained by panic or fear than by him being town with stuff to say.)

But I did see something much better. I found cause for another

WALL OF TEXT

.

Deal with it.

But you don't have to read it as long as you accept the conclusions. The conclusions are that the scum team is, incontrovertibly

:

PeregrineV
Klick
Benmage

R.I.P. Sanjay's townread on Benmage (2013-2013). You were so young.

---

Look at this conversation with HD, starting here.

Especially the conclusion, this post:

Yes

I'm allowed to have null reads, don't go complaining about them as if everyone is some sort of scumhunting god

Certainly.

But you haven't prodded at him, asked him any questions, or commented on anything he's done. (Distancing much?)

How can you change this null read if you don't prod?

Why is he null to you? You have literally zero opinion on anything he's done?

What is Benmage trying to say here? That somehow it is a scumtell to not be aggressively going after your nullreads? What the hell? Who does that, regardless of alignment?

Further, this accusation of distancing is quite frankly INSANE. Town-Benmage has been very understanding of other players' misteps, and yet somehow he thinks not mentioning a player is suspicious. What? You can pretty much call any interaction between two people some combination of busing, distancing, defending and cognitive bias because you know your partner is non-town. It means practically nothing, especially pre-flips. And yet Benmage is going for this crappy line of thinking.

It reads as fake, and it reads as Benmage knowing that relational tells with PV are of scumhunting value

.

---

Add to this Benmage's defenses in response to HD starting here seem off to me. For three reasons:

1. The conversation ends when Benmage feels he has convinced us that he is town, not when he has convinced us that HD is mafia.
2. He asks HD to bullet why PV is scum, then completely ignores the bullets and the fact that HD came up with them relatively easily.
3. I'll admit that this is the weakest one of the points, but Benmage seems to dip much more naturally into the "why would I do this as mafia?" defense than the "here is why I am doing things" defense, which is something I'd expect mafia to do.

---

Lastly, and this goes along with reason 1 above, but Benmage has STILL shown a lot more passion gaining townpoints than he has going after scum. Has Benmage shown a lot of sass this game? Yes. Has he shown ANY of it actually scumhunting? No.

---

At the best, Benmage sorely needs to be much more transparent. He's been the more evasive about sharing his reasoning than Seanald. At worst, Benmage is mafia.

In the interest of fostering that transparency, here are some questions for him to answer

:

What made you initially suspicious of PV?
What was your motivation for holding back your reasons for suspecting PV, especially when your wagon was going NOWHERE?
What did you see that made you doubt your scumread on PV?
How do you feel about PV's defenses this game?
What's the case on HD, exactly? That he went from a null read to a scum read? Do you know how silly that sounds?
Anyway, the HD lynch isn't happening today. Who you like? Klick or PV?
Are you actually stuck in a snowdrift?

Here are some things that are hilarious if I am right:

1. Mafia-Benmage really doesn't want to be here. Town-Benmage has every reason to come in guns ablazing. The town is supposedly going to lynch a town read instead of his target, and he has shown that he likes defending town.
2. I think this is a pretty good case, and Klick has no reason not to jump on it.
3. This game is hilariously townsided and, if I am right, we've won without that. Ha ha ha.

Finally, a few extra observations

:

1. IF PV and Klick are mafia, it makes very little sense for Vifam to be mafia. Vifam suspected Kiwi, and Klick's attempt to start a Kiwi wagon makes a lot more sense if Vifam is town.
2. I am in -L-'s head. She is not mafia. DO NOT LYNCH HER.
3. adorkable is so obviously town. I'm sure most people see that but if you don't, look again.
4. captaineddie's whole "I am sooo sorry I defended -L-! Just let me live a night and I will prove myself" schtick is crazy townish (unless -L- is scum, which I don't think she is). Why would he feel like doing a 180 is even something worth defending unless he didn't know -L-'s alignment? Also, the whole "I will use my wish to save myself" thing seems kinda pointless as mafia, and really organic as town.
5.

Lastly, and most probably importantly

: Of the three probable members of the scumteam, I think PV is

technically

the best lynch today. Klick is less good because his case slightly assumes PV mafia, so why wouldn't we lych PV first?Benmage is less good because, I am forced to admit, his case is

a little

less rock solid. Plus half of you are still inexplicably townreading him, so whatever.

[Sanjay]

Fair warning:

I am going to hold the town hostage to my wall posts until we lynch PV.

This day needs to end.

[Sanjay]

I SUPPOSE I could be convinced to lynch Klick, I GUESS. His stoney silence after post 601 was kind of damning, even independently. I feel like the mafia team really doesn't want to be in the thread right now, but Klick's absence is a little more inexplicable than PV's, who is legitimately VLA.

Or it was.

Guess what, PV? VLA IS OVER.

Hope you enjoyed the prerelease.

[Klick]

There are two good reasons for me not to be lynched:

1. I'm town
2. My wish will have the capability to both confirm that and someone else's alignment,

even if the anti-fairies targeted me.

[Klick]

Oh, and VOTE: captaineddie. I've been trying to make the explanation post for forever, and now I'm just going to settle with "I'll do it later."

[MrZepher]

Trying and failing because you can't.
so obvscum it hurts.

[PeregrineV]

Back on page 20, but catching up today.

[captaineddie]

2. My wish will have the capability to both confirm that and someone else's alignment,

even if the anti-fairies targeted me.

Hey... I think I've heard of this before, isn't this the same thing as I said?

Zeph, Ugh, I have to EXPLAIN my reads? =P Just kidding, i'll do it... later? I'm just at work right now

PV - What Guild did you play for the pre-release?

[Balrog]

People I am okay with lynching:

PV
Klick
HD
captaineddie
Benmage I guess

People I respect in this game:

Balrog
Sanjay

Days that have dragged on long enough and need to end:

Day 1

[captaineddie]

Days that have dragged on long enough and need to end:

Day 1

Number of awesome wishes in this game that we're going to make:
Too many to count =D

[MrZepher]

UNVOTE:
This is where I vote PV and put him at L-1

Looking back at his ISO I find it more and more difficult to see him as town.

[Human Destroyer]

Balrog, you still haven't provided any real reason to call me scum. :/

P-Edit: Oh ok.