Open 475, Twin Trap GAME OVER

[Disturbed_One]

VOTE: Lincolm

For being lazy.

[Disturbed_One]

VOTE: unseencamo

Serious vote.

Reeks of opportunism. VOTE: Human Destroyer

I am here..Sorry for late start...

Have any thoughts on the current situation?

UNVOTE:

Why no vote?

[Disturbed_One]

K I have a free period so I'll explain quickly

unseencamo is attacking Lincolm for no real reason; supposedly for "active lurking" yet Lincolm is clearly here and posting

The vote so conveniently happened to put Lincolm at L-2. I find that opportunistic.

Do tell how my vote is opportunistic though Disturbed, I'm quite interested in your reasoning

You're absolutely right. unseencamo

is

attacking Lincolm for no real reason.

Now, tell me what exactly is scummy about that. Because I don't find it scummy. Yes, the argument is crap, but the motivation behind the argument I have trouble believing is scummy. He's being inquisitive with a player who is deliberately refusing to actually take part in this game. That's not unreasonable and it certainly isn't scummy.

You yourself said that his definition for "active lurking" is twisted. Is that because he's misrepresenting Lincolm, or because he doesn't actually know what active lurking is?

I don't find unseencamo suspicious and I find your jump to his wagon a bit premature. On the surface, it would it appear that you are interested in getting out of RVS. But I find your motivation questionable when it comes to your stance on unseencamo.

Meh.

UNVOTE:

Maybe H.D. shouldn't have my trust yet.

Why question it now? You trusted him a second ago, what happened to change that?

[Disturbed_One]

It's scummy because I found his L-2 vote opportunistic. I already said this. If he is attacking Lincolm over nothing, why put him at L-2?

Clearly, he doesn't believe that he is attacking Lincolm over nothing, or he would have abandoned that argument. If he put Lincolm at L-2 for any other reason, would it be opportunistic? Why is this reasoning (or lack of it) anymore suspicious to you?

@Disturbed:

Active lurking = posting nothing beneficial. Tazaro you never gave your own reason, just sided with HD. Is he your scum buddy or something?

Accusing me of having a possible scum buddy in Human Destroyer seems to be too brash for unseencamo to be pegged right now as scum.

This is reasonable and I agree.

[Disturbed_One]

Depends on if it's a strong reason to be voting Lincolm. Which, as I've said, the current one isn't. Attacking someone with a really weak case like this one to put them at L-2 seems orchestrated to me.

Does having a weak case make someone scum? Does having a strong one make someone town?

Pedit:
That's not actually not a bad point, I'd still like to see your answer to my questions, however.

[Disturbed_One]

Independently, no and no, BUT if combined with an L-2 or L-1 vote, I'd say very much yes.

So you see unseencamo's reasoning as a poor excuse to jump the wagon? I think I get where you're coming from, though I still maintain that that's not necessarily alignment indicative.

For now, I'm satisfied with your answers to my questions.

VOTE: Unvote:

@ Hiraki:

I don't know who Empking is. Should I?

[Disturbed_One]

Sorry if I screwed up the tags in my last post, these vote tags are highly unfamiliar territory for me.

[Disturbed_One]

@ Hiraki:

I don't quite get your point, if you're looking for a response on my part I'd like you to elaborate.

@ Lincolm:

I don't quite get what you want from me here. You want me to explain unseencamo's attack? Or do you mean you want me to elaborate on my stance on unseencamo in general?

If the former, I think it would be wise for you to just ask unseencamo about his attack. Unless this is some strange test of my comprehension.

If the latter, what exactly do you need me to elaborate on?

[Disturbed_One]

Hey MonkeyMan, you're still voting Lincolm. Does that you mean you still find Lincolm suspicious? If so, what exactly about Lincolm is it that you still find suspicious?

[Disturbed_One]

Hey MonkeyMan, you're still voting Lincolm. Does that you mean you still find Lincolm suspicious? If so, what exactly about Lincolm is it that you still find suspicious?

Why did you ignore my question?

Also, I completely agree with Hiraki. Just saying.

[Disturbed_One]

@ unseencamo:

I completely agree on your MonkeyMan read.

How do you feel about Tazaro's reasoning for backing off your wagon? Post #63, I will link to it for convenience. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4679935

[Disturbed_One]

perhaps MM is the scum..who knows!!

Is this how you typically scum-hunt? If so, you need to change that. You're not helping with posts like this.


@ Human Destroyer:

I agree that Tazaro backing down looks scummy, however when I asked for his reasoning it sounded really genuine to me. I'm conflicted on Tazaro.


I'd be happy lynching ArcAngel today for that last post.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

[Disturbed_One]

And what exactly you achieved?
Do you realize that we are still on Page6? Wake up chicken!!!

Yep, here's the scum.

Come on, people. Let's get some votes over here.

[Disturbed_One]

I'm waiting for something to happen. It's page 6 and everyone is mostly posting worthless posts that will have nothing to do with who is eventually lynched.

I'll try and do an analysis of the meager events that have happened so far a little later when I have time.

While you're doing your analysis, make sure to answer my question that you've dodged for the second time in a row.

This attitude is not acceptable. You're just being a Jerk. can you please do your job!!!

I find this horribly ironic.

[Disturbed_One]

disturbed

Well well, to be honest I cannot say that I have been paying to much attention to you. Haha sorry. I went back to read some of your posts. You don't give a strong scum vibe off to me. However, I do think you messed up with your claim the HD's vote "reeks with opportunism". I think the real demonstration of opportunism was arc's vote on me, making it a third vote against me. He saw the opportunity to get on a potential quick lynch wagon and he took it.

(townish)

Yes, I was primarily focusing on HD and I probably overlooked Arc's vote. However, my vote now is staying on Arc not because of her vote, but because of her reaction to my vote. Her response is completely uncharacteristic compared to the rest of her posts.

Arc's posts since #122 have been fishy and the posts before that aren't exactly impressive examples of scum-hunting, either.

[Disturbed_One]

How are any of you looking at ArcAngel's posts on this page and not voting her?

@ Lincolm:

Perhaps you misunderstood me, I did say that I didn't think there was any logic or reason to unseencamo's vote on you. It was a bad vote. I just don't see what's inherently scummy about that.

That said, look at Arc's posts on this page and tell me how she isn't scum.

@ unseencamo:

So Arc is your strongest scum read, but you're voting Lincolm over her? Is that correct? How the heck are you justifying that?

@ Monkeyman:

Look at the point at the top of this post. Explain why you're not voting Arc right now.

[Disturbed_One]

@ Lincolm:

It really has to do with perception, for me. I viewed the motivation behind unseencamo's attack on you as a pro-town motivation. While his reasoning was bad, his motivation seemed rather genuine to me. His whole back-and-forth with you from posts #25 to #32 struck me as a townie that thought he had found something suspicious, but was coming from the misconception that what you did was actually suspicious.

It has less to do with her lack of scum-hunting, though I do believe that to be a by-product of her being scum. It is entirely about her reaction to me. It's completely uncharacteristic. She argued with Monkeyman about you in a semi-rational way in post #60. Her reaction to my vote for her is just too damn fishy. She didn't address my concern that she wasn't scum-hunting and instead chose to attack me for... being a chicken? Seriously?

You've already got a gut feeling about this. I encourage you to consider my reasoning and vote accordingly. Say what you want about unseencamo, but nothing he has done so far has been as bad as what Arc has been doing.

[Disturbed_One]

Have you given a thought that I may be a townie?
I can't wait you to know the truth and feel sorry for accusing me wrongly.

Why on Earth would I give a thought to scum being a townie? Townies try to find scum. You are not doing so. Therefore, you're scum. Unless you start scum-hunting, there's no possible alternative.

Oh yes, I agree with you. I can't wait to lynch you and know the truth!

[Disturbed_One]

Yeah really.. Well i don't see that’s happening at all.. May be you're wrong. Not everyone see me as Scum becuz I am not!!!
And what exactly you did for scum hunting.. all you did was running behind and accusing me and begging everyone to vote me even after everyone repeatedly ignoring your false accusations.

You're definitely scum. Firstly, you're ignoring my suggestion to actually scum-hunt for once. Re-directing the blame is cute, but it isn't valid against me, anyone that looks through my posts will understand that you're lying about me not scum-hunting. Re-directing blame is also a common scum tactic.

Secondly, anyone with half a brain that compares your posts towards other people and your posts towards me can clearly see something isn't adding up. You're bipolar in your responses, you're reasonably debating with others but senselessly attempting to attack me. Another sign that you're obv scum.

[Disturbed_One]

You seem to scum tactis very well.. and Is this one your tactic to frame someone as Scum?
You can even say louder than this, THAT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE ME SCUM.. BECUZ I AM NOT!!
You're accusations are pointless and you're mean. The truth is that you're either scum thinking that it is easy to frame or a total misguided townie who has problem understanding others opinions.

Now go head and give your best shot and make a false proof that i am scum. I am done arguing with you on this.

What you're doing is hardly called "arguing." To argue with someone, you'd to have to actually address their points.

"I'm not scum because I'm not scum", is not a valid argument. It doesn't matter how loudly it's said, either.

Why are my accusations pointless? Screaming "I'm a townie" in all caps doesn't make accusations pointless.

I already did that and you have not been able to actually respond to my accusations. I don't need to re-state my unanswered accusations, you need to answer them. Preferably in a coherent way that doesn't involve you repeating how you're not scum because you're not scum.

[Disturbed_One]

Lol I'm the one with the attitude? You're the one that called me a chicken and told me how I should be "doing my job."

[Disturbed_One]

And what exactly you achieved?
Do you realize that we are still on Page6? Wake up chicken!!!

The joke's on you if you think anyone will actually believe that was a joke.

[Disturbed_One]

I was pointing to the Page 6 of Day 1 and if you think that is serious than you missed my sarcasam. Anyways, I am done being sarcatic now.
And neither you made any easier to me. So I am moving on.. if you want to hang on it.. Please feel free.. Becuz i am not comfortable talking on something that's not helping anyone.

There was a proper way to respond to my post. You didn't and in doing so revealed your true motives.

I've asked you to address the points of my case but you have refused time and time again. I'm afraid "moving on" for you means you will be lynched.

[Disturbed_One]

As if you did any better... you were worse than me.. so don't flatter yourself.
I no longer need to respond someone who is not open minded. I am not wasting my time on you.

Prove it. Give reasons as to why you feel I was "worse" than you.

[Disturbed_One]

Prove it. Give reasons as to why you feel I was "worse" than you.

Why do you think Lincolm is Scum?

...

I don't think Lincolm is scum. When have I ever said Lincolm was scum?

Quote tags fixed.

[Disturbed_One]

so you think anyone else is scum other than me...?

Yes, but I'd rather not say who they are until you are lynched.

[Disturbed_One]

You know what.. for a moment I thought i was wrong about you.... You're just you... Whatever!!

I'm fine with being just me.

So who do you think are the scum?

[Disturbed_One]

uctriton has restored my faith in this game. That was a great post.

I never understood people who claim when they have all of two votes on them. As far as I'm concerned, Arc is the scum and is getting lynched today. We can figure out Monkey later.

[Disturbed_One]

I wouldn't vote Monkeyman just yet. Arc was at L-1 and she needed to claim a PR to survive. Claiming Tracker would just have her counter-claimed, what else would she claim now that Monkeyman claimed Watcher?

This is why people that claim early really irritate me. There was no reason for Monkey to claim and now there's a dispute that wouldn't have been had he decided to wait on the claim.

[Disturbed_One]

There are only three claim possibilities: tracker, watcher, and VT. The real tracker would just counter-claim her and VTs just end up getting lynched when they claim. The only feasible claim option that allows her to take out a PR is watcher.

[Disturbed_One]

@ HD:

Why so opposed to lynching Arc? Did you read #220 and #222? She's playing exactly the way scum in her position would play.

Furthermore, if she plays this way every game, then how can you be certain she's actually a VI?

Do you think she's telling the truth with the counter-claim, then?

[Disturbed_One]

Again, @ HD:

I don't care about Arc's playstyle in other games. Give me one good reason why you think she's town in this game.

[Disturbed_One]

@ HD:

She's not the watcher. She wouldn't have made the posts she did on pages 6-7 if she was a watcher.

In any case, you're absolutely right. This isn't LYLO. So just lynch Arc with me today and we'll get scum either way.

@ Arc:

I'll answer your questions if you answer this question. Who is Monkey's scum buddy? Pick a legitimate reason and make a case for it or I'll be forced to disregard it.

[Disturbed_One]

i don't know yet

Cool, I don't feel like I need to answer your questions then.

[Disturbed_One]

i am giving up on you, go to hell!!!

And you wonder why you're being lynched right now.

[Disturbed_One]

Bahahaha.

So we went from "I don't know" to "you're scum" in 7 minutes. That's got to be a world record right there.

[Disturbed_One]

This is completely obvious. Do I need to explain my reasoning?
VOTE: MonkeyMan576

Read posts #220 and #222. Explain how you're right and I'm wrong.

[Disturbed_One]

Screw it, when Monkey flips town, we lynch Arc tomorrow and you people finally need to start listening to me.

VOTE: MonkeyMan576

[Disturbed_One]

VOTE: unseencamo

Easy win is easy.

[Disturbed_One]

Is that a hammer vote?

Yep, it's a hammer.

[Disturbed_One]

so who is the last scum? Any guess?

It's Unseen, I'm fairly certain there aren't more than two scum players.

[Disturbed_One]

If Monkeyman had been a bit more patient with his claim, he might have been able to survive Day 1 because I was pushing the Arc lynch quite hard.

Unseen's could have complicated things for us by killing Arc, surprised he didn't.

Good game!