Micro 124: Rondar's Posting Gloryhole (Scum Win)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 48, AngryPidgeon wrote:I mean, it wasn't obvious at all to me. I had loosely tossed around some setup spec in my head and I'd be shocked if there were no cop in the game.

But it never ocurred to me that NL would ever be an even remotely good strategy (its not).

And unless hes an alt account, I strongly doubt someone that joined 2 months ago is under the impression that a NL in this semi open setup is scuh an assumed standard plan that he should just go ahead an vote NL in RVS with no added reason.

Depends on his background.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
Xegarus
Xegarus
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Xegarus
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1006
Joined: November 29, 2012
Location: UK

Post Post #51 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:21 am

Post by Xegarus »

In post 38, implosion wrote:Sorry for wallpost >_> I'll try to not do this in the future. It's a habit that I'm trying to wean myself off of.

We share the same "problem" if you can call it that.

In post 38, implosion wrote:Minor quip, but really any time someone uses words like "seems" it sets off alarm bells in my head. I'm not sure if I'm a hypocrite with respect to this, but noncommittal language is generally a scumtell. Note that I understand that in this context, the word "seems" is in no way noncommittal - but there are alternate phrasings that are much more direct. Indirectness in general, I find, is scummy.

This is just the way i communicate. However, if you like, i will try to be as direct as i possibly can.

In post 38, implosion wrote:Even more minor quip, but this just feels off (which I guess is a gut thing) as a reason to vote someone in RVS.

It was not a RVS.
It was serious. I found it a little odd and so i voted.

In post 38, implosion wrote:This phrasing just irritates my gut, but i'm not sure why.

All i meant was that i would like you to explain your reason since you said your vote was semi serious to begin with and then said it was serious.

In post 38, implosion wrote:I find this to be an interesting response to my previous post. My "metaphor" post was pretty clearly sarcastic/lazy/bad, yet he doesn't call me out for it at all - he just asks me to explain. Again. Because it did so much for him the first time. It feels like, rather than actually trying to read others, he sees a threat and immediately jumps to "how can I get rid of this threat?" Really, I think my lazypost actually can be kind of a reaction test insofar as I really hate this reaction to it.

You did not really answer my question so i asked you again. Absolutely anyone would try to get someone who voted for them off. If someone was to vote for someone, is it not the natural thing to try and see if you can convinve them otherwise?

In post 38, implosion wrote:...I'm really not sure what else the justification "explosions are better" could be. I really can't see this post from Xegarus as anything but an attempt to blend in/look like he's doing something/deflect attention onto someone else.


It was closer to being rhetorical rather than a serious question. I thought it was fairly obvious that we were getting out of RVS. So seeing something pushing us back in was something that strikes me as odd.

In post 38, implosion wrote:Aaaaand more questions that prod at others weakly without taking any firm stances on anything.

Maybe it was stance-less, but i was looking to see how he would react to it.

In post 38, implosion wrote:And he finally votes... along with another question. I'm not saying that questions on their own merit are scummy but these are really, really useless. Questions like "do you think X is scum" or "why are you voting Y" are legitimate - these really aren't accomplishing anything, though.


I hardly think the questions i asked were so useless. He said he thought coming out of RVS early was a bad thing and i am under the impression that getting out of RVS can only be a good thing for town.

In post 38, implosion wrote:Oh lolz, this excuse. This used to be my favorite excuse to use as scum. Granted, I also thought it was true as town - but I would actively justify my actions by saying "i'm doing crap to get us out of RVS" as if getting out of RVS was some magical black-and-white moment where we no longer have the ability to vote for people without reason or fluffpost. In short, this line of reasoning is really silly.

As i said before, i see coming out of RVS as only a good thing. Do i believe its a magical moment thats as clear as day and night? No. But i believe it is far better to get serious than to be random, especially when scum hunting.
:D
User avatar
Xegarus
Xegarus
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Xegarus
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1006
Joined: November 29, 2012
Location: UK

Post Post #52 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:21 am

Post by Xegarus »

In post 39, BBmolla wrote:
In post 38, implosion wrote:Xegarus wanted to do something. So he voted for no lynch. It's funny, because I used to think that voting for no lynch early was a noobtowntell, but that's been, IME, empirically disproven.

Or he wanted to try to get two cop reports.

In post 40, implosion wrote:
In post 39, BBmolla wrote:
In post 38, implosion wrote:Xegarus wanted to do something. So he voted for no lynch. It's funny, because I used to think that voting for no lynch early was a noobtowntell, but that's been, IME, empirically disproven.

Or he wanted to try to get two cop reports.

But he didn't.

In post 42, AngryPidgeon wrote:
In post 39, BBmolla wrote:
In post 38, implosion wrote:Xegarus wanted to do something. So he voted for no lynch. It's funny, because I used to think that voting for no lynch early was a noobtowntell, but that's been, IME, empirically disproven.

Or he wanted to try to get two cop reports.

Wait, what is this shit. BBMafia, you mafia? Because this defense is awful. Why not ask Xeg instead of speculating for him?

In post 43, BBmolla wrote:Thought it was obvious

In post 45, AngryPidgeon wrote:How the hell was that obvious. It was a p1 NL vote. Ya.... Bbm/xeg/levi should be the lynches today.

In post 46, BBmolla wrote:Why else would you no lynch d1 in this setup

In post 47, BBmolla wrote:Maybe it's just my epicmafia background that made it seem so obvious.

In post 48, AngryPidgeon wrote:I mean, it wasn't obvious at all to me. I had loosely tossed around some setup spec in my head and I'd be shocked if there were no cop in the game.

But it never ocurred to me that NL would ever be an even remotely good strategy (its not).

And unless hes an alt account, I strongly doubt someone that joined 2 months ago is under the impression that a NL in this semi open setup is scuh an assumed standard plan that he should just go ahead an vote NL in RVS with no added reason.


I would like to clarify. I did the NL solely to get discussion. I don't feel it was obvious that it would appear to look like cop baiting at the time. I still do not feel it was obvious reading through it again. I will admit that i don't think it was the best of moves but it did its purpose.
I found it odd that BB would come to that conclusion, but since i have not read the game he has posted, i will give you the benefit of the doubt until i have.
AP, i ask again, care to explain your vote?
Or was 'trying to look like he's engaging' it?
:D
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
User avatar
User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 14641
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Post Post #53 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:32 am

Post by implosion »

I just pulled an all nighter so forgive me for anything I say that is absolutely inane even though I'm fairly sure this is a completely sane post. Mkay? Mkay.

I found it a little odd and so i voted.

...odd. Yes, someone posted last. That's very odd... it's not like it happens every game or anything :shifty:

You did not really answer my question so i asked you again. Absolutely anyone would try to get someone who voted for them off. If someone was to vote for someone, is it not the natural thing to try and see if you can convinve them otherwise?

Yes. That's the natural first response - but if the person voting you is being entirely unreasonable (and I was being unreasonable) then the natural next response is not to continue attempting to be reasonable - the natural next response is either to rage at them, to angrily say "well then screw you," or even to ignore them since they aren't actually saying anything that merits a response.

As i said before, i see coming out of RVS as only a good thing. Do i believe its a magical moment thats as clear as day and night? No. But i believe it is far better to get serious than to be random, especially when scum hunting.

Theory time (well, a little). First of all, there is no such thing as random. The choice of who to vote for is a non-random choice insofar as scum know their partners, and this makes them more or less likely to vote for them. Second of all, RVS justifications are nonrandom insofar as they provide information. Third of all, and this is the point I'm trying to make with regards to you being scummy: Yes, getting out of the RVS is all well and good. But it's a fairly common scum tactic (again, I used to do this as scum) to do things that are non-RVSish and say "hey, i'm helping us get out of the RVS" in order to look helpful. It's a wonderful way to earn some brownie points without actually
doing
anything. The thing about RVS is that it ends
automatically
- no one needs to help it along. No matter what, there will always be some kind of event during the first few posts that brings serious discussion, and serious discussion means that the game has started. Other people random voting at that point doesn't really matter - the game is out of RVS, and you "helping it along" is doing exactly zero to actually bring about more content. You know what would bring about more content?
posting content.
And when I say content, I mean votes, reads, and justifications. Those three things lie at the heart of content that can be read for alignment. Questions don't. You asking questions might help you read others.
it doesn't help us read you.
And that's why some scum love to ask questions, because it's a great way to look like you're doing something when you aren't actually moving the discussion forward - you aren't bringing in new ideas, you're just poking at ones that are already there.
User avatar
implosion
implosion
he/him
Polymath
User avatar
User avatar
implosion
he/him
Polymath
Polymath
Posts: 14641
Joined: September 9, 2010
Pronoun: he/him
Location: zoraster's wine cellar

Post Post #54 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:35 am

Post by implosion »

Also, incidentally, I rather dislike CDB's one post.
User avatar
Xegarus
Xegarus
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Xegarus
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1006
Joined: November 29, 2012
Location: UK

Post Post #55 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:12 am

Post by Xegarus »

In post 53, implosion wrote:..odd. Yes, someone posted last. That's very odd... it's not like it happens every game or anything

I take on your point. But i remember feeling differently when i made.

In post 53, implosion wrote:Yes. That's the natural first response - but if the person voting you is being entirely unreasonable (and I was being unreasonable) then the natural next response is not to continue attempting to be reasonable - the natural next response is either to rage at them, to angrily say "well then screw you," or even to ignore them since they aren't actually saying anything that merits a response.


The last time i raged at anyone for doing something stupid it made me look worse and 'out of character'. So i took a different approach to just be patient. Asking you again could mean that you actually answer or others point out that you are not answering. And maybe that could have gotten an answer.
This is all theory btw. But maybe you can understand my mindset for this.


In post 53, implosion wrote:Theory time (well, a little).

XD

In post 53, implosion wrote:
Spoiler:
First of all, there is no such thing as random. The choice of who to vote for is a non-random choice insofar as scum know their partners, and this makes them more or less likely to vote for them. Second of all, RVS justifications are nonrandom insofar as they provide information. Third of all, and this is the point I'm trying to make with regards to you being scummy: Yes, getting out of the RVS is all well and good. But it's a fairly common scum tactic (again, I used to do this as scum) to do things that are non-RVSish and say "hey, i'm helping us get out of the RVS" in order to look helpful. It's a wonderful way to earn some brownie points without actually doing anything. The thing about RVS is that it ends automatically - no one needs to help it along. No matter what, there will always be some kind of event during the first few posts that brings serious discussion, and serious discussion means that the game has started. Other people random voting at that point doesn't really matter - the game is out of RVS, and you "helping it along" is doing exactly zero to actually bring about more content. You know what would bring about more content? posting content. And when I say content, I mean votes, reads, and justifications. Those three things lie at the heart of content that can be read for alignment. Questions don't. You asking questions might help you read others. it doesn't help us read you. And that's why some scum love to ask questions, because it's a great way to look like you're doing something when you aren't actually moving the discussion forward - you aren't bringing in new ideas, you're just poking at ones that are already there.


I understand your point. As bad as my play might have been, it is done. I was just under the impression that the sooner we get out of the frying pan, the sooner we would be in the fire. In my other games, there was always a 'specific' thing that got us out of RVS, or at the very least looked as so. I only thought that it could do some good here aswell.

I ask you this since you have more experience but it is theory based so don't feel like you should answer.
Spoiler:
I am also under the assumption that scum is more likely to want to stay in RVS, which is also why my vote is on levi, is this a correct point of veiw from your experience?


And concerning CDB's post, i don't exactly know if he is jokingly saying that or actually being serious.
:D
User avatar
Rondar
Rondar
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Rondar
Goon
Goon
Posts: 522
Joined: December 4, 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt

Post Post #56 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:22 am

Post by Rondar »

Spoiler: LMAO (Off topic)
In post 49, hohum wrote:Vote Count
In post 36, Rondar wrote:@Mod Can this get a name? =3


Done.

LOL. I love you.

In post 47, BBmolla wrote:Maybe it's just my epicmafia background that made it seem so obvious.

EMers unite.

But seriously,
BBmolla
, I don't quite understand the two cop reports thing. Even on EM it's always ML > Report. Always.

@Implo
, I'll be honest and say I've been a tad to lazy to thoroughly read everything you said BUT, from what I have understood, the main point is his unnatural RVS -> Normal transition. I agree that it's odd, but I'd rather attribute that to noobtown, only because his first vote was so out there. What I mean is, I find it hard to believe, especially for such a new player, that'd he'd put himself in the spotlight like that as mafia. I feel uncomfortable lynching him today based on that towntell. Otherwise, he just seems... artificial. It's odd

@Channel
, hello. At least tell us why you think Lev is scum. Why didn't you at least vote him?

AP is strongly leaning town right now. I do however feel BBmolla vs AP is kind of tvt at the moment. Just the vibe I get from it. (Stronger than Xeg townread). Either way, I feel I can safely cross out a BB-AP team.

More
Implosion
's case is still too strong/pushy for my tastes this early in the game. But I don't know whether to attribute that to eager to play/sure scumread or just scum. He's null leaning scum. His reaction to my vote told me very little, tbh.

I want to see levi post. I don't feel like putting anyone at L-1, so...

VOTE: ChannelDillbird Some encouragement!!!

@Mod You wanna see my spoiler Mr.Winnie =]
Wow, that dinner smells good. Let me guess, meat?
Town: 2/8 Mafia: 2/2 Other: 1/1 Replaced out: 3
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #57 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:29 am

Post by BBmolla »

In post 56, Rondar wrote:But seriously, BBmolla, I don't quite understand the two cop reports thing. Even on EM it's always ML > Report. Always.

*shrug*

Guess things have changed, good.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #58 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:26 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

Ugh Im here. I typed up something earlier, but went to lunch. Quick skim replies from work:

@BBMolla: Ok, I guess I could see that. I just think that is bad policy and I have never played epicmafia.
@Xeg: My vote on you was not super strong but it wasnt random. I thought Rondar looked town for jumping the gun during pregame and your post after his looked like you might be someone posting to fit in because Rondar was doing it. And I dislike NL/self votes. Not sure what to make of you sense, but you are asking questions, a lot of which, I dont see your perspective on.

What the fuck is EM and why has everyone played there except me >.>

What is CDB at, Im starting to PoE scumread him
unvote;
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #59 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:27 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

since*
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #60 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:28 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

VOTE: ChannelDelibird
AP uses Rock Slide! Its super effective!
User avatar
Rondar
Rondar
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Rondar
Goon
Goon
Posts: 522
Joined: December 4, 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt

Post Post #61 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:35 am

Post by Rondar »

People just line up to be like me, eh AP!?

Channel I propose you talk just about now~

@AP
Thoughts on implo after his most recent wall(s)? (
Channel, BBmolla,
your opinions would also be highly appreciated)
Wow, that dinner smells good. Let me guess, meat?
Town: 2/8 Mafia: 2/2 Other: 1/1 Replaced out: 3
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #62 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:38 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

I have been skimming. I'll catchup fully after work >.>

Implo just kind of feels town for carefree posting. Doesnt seem to care what other people think about his posts. Feels natural. Havent read the latest though.

Also, CDB's singular post loosely reminds me of Shamrock scum in that one mini normal...
User avatar
Rondar
Rondar
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Rondar
Goon
Goon
Posts: 522
Joined: December 4, 2012
Location: Cairo, Egypt

Post Post #63 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:45 am

Post by Rondar »

Oh yeah, I remember that!!! (*shakes head*)
Wow, that dinner smells good. Let me guess, meat?
Town: 2/8 Mafia: 2/2 Other: 1/1 Replaced out: 3
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #64 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:36 am

Post by BBmolla »

Implos obvious town.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #65 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:42 am

Post by BBmolla »

In post 58, AngryPidgeon wrote:What the fuck is EM and why has everyone played there except me >.>

http://www.epicmafia.com/

It's basically "Babby's First Mafia" sort of deal. It's a chat mafia site (probably the most popular source of mafia on the web) where you play in real time, matches end in 30 minutes. The meta game is very different, I believe it's generally MYLO on d2 in most setups. It's alright if you're bored though, and was fun when Mafiascum died that one time.

I found it through /v/, absurd games of 20 people where everyone is a power role. Eventually I realized the fun in smaller setups, and eventually made my way here.

Still think levi and CDB.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #66 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:54 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

Could be them. No one posting really seems that scummy to me except maybe Xeg.
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #67 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:00 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Regardless of my argument, Xeg was my one "Could be wrong" read.

You're town though. Rondar can be town too.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #68 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:06 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

Cool, so we have 4 obvtowns. Choo Choo and all that ;p
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #69 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:16 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Exactly.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #70 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:42 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

You aren't
mafia
though are you BB : P

If you are, just bus your buddy and I'll totally not investigate you tonight. : P
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post Post #71 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:46 pm

Post by ChannelDelibird »

In post 56, Rondar wrote:
@Channel
, hello. At least tell us why you think Lev is scum. Why didn't you at least vote him?


...You do realise that voting him meant hammering him, right? If I actually thought it would be a good idea to hammer him, I would have hammered him. If he hadn't been on Lynch-1, I would have voted him, though. "i've been watching things closely and feel it isn't a good idea to get serious so so early" needed explaining.

I was really hoping to see Leviathan explain said post before I posted again. Apparently that isn't happening quickly enough.

I'm not giving an opinion on implosion's recent wall because I don't read walls. Personal policy for fun purposes.
#greenshirtthursdays
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #72 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:49 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

Am I town, DeliSandwich?
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
User avatar
User avatar
AngryPidgeon
Glenn Peck
Glenn Peck
Posts: 18863
Joined: June 17, 2012
Location: a Zulfy thread

Post Post #73 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:50 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

Hint: Im not mafia.
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
User avatar
User avatar
ChannelDelibird
He/they
Card Czar
Card Czar
Posts: 10601
Joined: March 18, 2006
Pronoun: He/they
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post Post #74 (ISO) » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:52 pm

Post by ChannelDelibird »

Yes, you're town.
#greenshirtthursdays

Return to “Mayfair Club [Micro Games]”