Open 473: Jungle Republic GAME OVER

[Majiffy]

Here we go.

Majiffy, I still don't see your point there. I omitted it because it gave you so much pain before.
You unvoted Prohawk, meaning he was no longer as good a lynch as he was when you voted him.
You voted Rob, meaning he was a good lynch-- and a better lynch than the player who you had already unvoted. Therefore, he was a better lynch than Prohawk, and you should have provided a case on him.

You omitted it because I called you out on it before, and because it's the linchpin of your entire argument.
Your premise is assuming Rob was somehow my scummiest read. And yet he wasn't. The vote was a placeholder. As I've said before, and as you keep ignoring. With a faulty premise comes a faulty conclusion.

I don't understand how anything that occurred between those two events has anything to do with anything. Maybe if ProHawk had claimed scum and Rob would have never become a better lynch? But nothing that happened changes the fact that you unvoted Prohawk (making him a lesser lynch candidate) and voted Rob (making him a greater one).

See above.

How am I twisting your words? You're saying, "If you argue against the Aldus lynch, and attack Sky, people might have gone to ProHawk!"

Because that's not what I'm saying, lol.

I have no fucking clue where this jump comes from.

Neither do I; you invented it.

Also, what the fuck is "sheer counterwagon reasoning"? Just like the "primary reads list" bullshit, I've never heard of this before-- and neither has anyone else. You're making things up to support your attack.

Sheer - "For only the purpose of", or something akin to that. Sorry if I don't whip out my dictionary on a 3rd grade word.
Counterwagon - That wagon which runs counter to the primary wagon.
Reasoning - ... Reasons. Given. Uhh... Not sure how else to help you out with this.

Go ahead and put all that together.

And you still haven't procured a lot of the claims you've made about "primary reads list bullshit" that I've repeatedly asked you for and you have ignored.

Also, now you're saying I'm mafiascum, making the closest thing to an actual attack on me invalid. Why would mafiaWhiskers be defending wolfAlduskkel?

Because you would hope for towncred on a town flip. Have you not been reading what I'm actually saying? Because I'm really getting that impression.

[Tajun]

Go back and tell me who each one of your nameless quotes was from and then I'll read your wall. This is posting 101, guys.

P-edit: What HD said, I guess. I doubt my area will be hit bad, though.

Well. Let's see, there's uctriton in the first three, like I said. Then there's HD in the last one. You know, also like I said. You might want to take reading 101 before you try teaching posting 101.

@Tajun: I argued a little bit with Thor, to try to get some value out of the Majiffy vs Thor fight. I vaguely remember arguing with you, but wasn't that also, you know, for some reason? Like, to get answers or understand something? Majiffy is perpetuating arguments for argument's sake.

It's the way you do it. You take a five line post against you and turn it into a two wall rebuttal. God, you were doing it by page 2, that's why I voted you in the first place. Then it happened with me. Then with Majiffy. Majiffy is a bit like that, but when he was fighting with Thor he was hammering home a point. It happened to be a weak point, but he was focused and targeted. The only time he has gotten into these bloody wall wars is with you, because neither of you seems to be able to describe in a concise and organized fashion what your issues are.

[Whiskers]

The ones where you've shown leanings and have failed to pony up with a read on them; like calling me scummy and saying my posts have scum motivation, yet failing to follow up with a vote or even to outright call me scum.

I already mentioned why I'm not voting you. Also, I don't have reads on all those players. Some of them I lean a particular way on, as is evident from my posts.

Yeah, my scum read was... I think it was Aus, I don't remember atm. Why should I place votes? I don't need a "placeholder" vote, not-voting is a thing too.

Yeah, that'll help you lynch scum.

Fuck you. This is a playstyle issue.

Rob's explanation is inaccurate, because examine:

The 'pack' is on someone I'm reading as town now. I'm not going to support that. Plenty of people have voiced support for Rob, now it's time to see if they'll nut up.

This is while you were still voting Rob.

Explain how any of that is inaccurate to what I've said or what Rob has said. I'll wait.

Rob said you're lazy, and that when the time came to make a case, you didn't think Rob was scum anymore.
This is shown to be inaccurate in post 623, where you were voting Rob and explained that you wanted other people to vote Rob-- presumably for a lynch.
Was there another reason why you wanted people supporting a Rob lynch, to vote for Rob? If yes, what was it?

You mean like how directly earlier in the post I was pointing out things you'd said that were untrue? Yeah. Thought so.

Yeah, except they weren't.

I haven't said it's scummy at all, nor have I tried to make it appear that it is such, to think that "dropping a towntell is a scumtell". I've just classified it as incorrect.

No, you haven't said that it was scummy, just like I haven't said that you are scum.

Except I wasn't calling you scummy for anything to do with the towntell/scumtell thing.

So what?

just another way of you twisting what's going on to support your ... null read? That you aren't voting?

Why would I twist words to support a null read? Why would I need to vote a null read?

I certainly have a better answer to "how to scumhunt".

Bullshit.

[Whiskers]

This post was written first.

Here we go.

Majiffy, I still don't see your point there. I omitted it because it gave you so much pain before.
You unvoted Prohawk, meaning he was no longer as good a lynch as he was when you voted him.
You voted Rob, meaning he was a good lynch-- and a better lynch than the player who you had already unvoted. Therefore, he was a better lynch than Prohawk, and you should have provided a case on him.

You omitted it because I called you out on it before, and because it's the linchpin of your entire argument.
Your premise is assuming Rob was somehow my scummiest read. And yet he wasn't. The vote was a placeholder. As I've said before, and as you keep ignoring. With a faulty premise comes a faulty conclusion.

BUT I QUOTED WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT WANTING OTHER PEOPLE TO PUT VOTES ON HIM. POST623 WHERE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET SUPPORT FOR A ROB WAGON. THE PREMISE IS NOT THAT HE IS YOUR SCUMMIEST READ, BUT THAT HE A SCUMMIER READ THAN PROHAWK.
IF YOU HAVE TWO PEOPLE, AND YOU THINK ONE OF THEM IS SCUM (PROHAWK) AND ONE OF THEM IS NOT SCUM (ROB)

<<(This what you are saying, that rob was NOT a better lynch than prohawk,)

, THEN WHY WOULD YOU VOTE FOR THE ONE YOU DO NOT THINK IS SCUM?

I think "it was a placeholder vote" is stupid, but that's a playstyle thing, so I'm not even fighting about that. What I

AM

fighting about is why you would call for people to come out and form a wagon on Rob if you didn't think Rob was scummy.

I don't understand how anything that occurred between those two events has anything to do with anything. Maybe if ProHawk had claimed scum and Rob would have never become a better lynch? But nothing that happened changes the fact that you unvoted Prohawk (making him a lesser lynch candidate) and voted Rob (making him a greater one).

See above.

No, I will NOT see above. YOU made a big issue over the fact that you did things between unvoting ProHawk and voting Rob. Even now, I left it out and you included it. So now you have to tell me what is the great big thing that happened between them, that changes everything-- that changes what you said.

How am I twisting your words? You're saying, "If you argue against the Aldus lynch, and attack Sky, people might have gone to ProHawk!"

Because that's not what I'm saying, lol.

I have no fucking clue where this jump comes from.

Neither do I; you invented it.

Ok, then I ask. AGAIN. What

are

you saying? I defended Alduskkel. I attacked Sky. You brought up ProHawk. Why?

Also, what the fuck is "sheer counterwagon reasoning"? Just like the "primary reads list" bullshit, I've never heard of this before-- and neither has anyone else. You're making things up to support your attack.

Sheer - "For only the purpose of", or something akin to that. Sorry if I don't whip out my dictionary on a 3rd grade word.
Counterwagon - That wagon which runs counter to the primary wagon.
Reasoning - ... Reasons. Given. Uhh... Not sure how else to help you out with this.

You said I could rile up players onto ProHawk by sheer counterwagon reasoning. I don't know what that is supposed to mean.

"Whiskers could rile up players onto Prohawk for the purpose of the counteragon reasons"
Doesn't make any fucking sense just stop being a bitch and try to make some sense. I am trying my hardest to understand you but you are working your hardest to be unintelligible.

And you still haven't procured a lot of the claims you've made about "primary reads list bullshit" that I've repeatedly asked you for and you have ignored.

What is this? What am I supposed to procure? You want me to find where I asked you why you kept posting oneliners of "Lynch Rob" with no reasons and you responded with "he wasn't one of my primary lynch candidates!" ? That was one of your first excuses.
Do you want me to find where you said "What, haven't you heard of primary reads and secondary reads? How long have you been playing this game?"? Because you belittled me when I didn't know your special made up terminology.

[Whiskers]

It's the way you do it. You take a five line post against you and turn it into a two wall rebuttal.

It's because it's easy to make bad attacks in just a line or two, but to reasonably refute them could take paragraphs.
In this case, it doesn't help that Majiffy is fighting me on every little thing, whether part of his attack or not.

[Tajun]

It's the way you do it. You take a five line post against you and turn it into a two wall rebuttal.

It's because it's easy to make bad attacks in just a line or two, but to reasonably refute them could take paragraphs.
In this case, it doesn't help that Majiffy is fighting me on every little thing, whether part of his attack or not.

And if it happened once, fine. But every page is just you arguing right now, and it is making it impossible to tell what your point is without parsing your posts for an hour. Next time Majiffy makes a wall attack on you, tell him to find a few specific points to make or to cram it with walnuts. Don't engage him when he is being an ass.

[Rob14]

^Whiskers/Tajun remaining mafia-team alert. Tajun calls Whiskers scummy but doesn't vote him for the past page or three and then coaches him in the above post.

[Tajun]

a) Do you have a point?

b) If I was his partner, I would have done any coaching in QT. A tad blatant there, no?

[Rob14]

b) If I was his partner, I would have done any coaching in QT. A tad blatant there, no?

You would have done what coaching you thought necessary at the end of Day 1 in the QT. Stuff has happened though, and you may have more advice to give.

Also, this is a reverse Too Townie argument. Blatant scum is still scum.

[Tajun]

I see. So the options are:

1) I failed to notice that my partner was viciously engaging everyone with walls day 1, in spite of the fact that I voted him for it, or somehow forgot/failed to give him that info in QT. I then decided to blatantly do it in thread instead.

OR
2) I think that there is a decent chance that Whiskers is town, and I just wanted to stop the wall insanity.

Tough call.

[4nxi3ty]

Guys, Aldsukkel's a great lynch, I'm sure, but we can only do one a day and this guy is it.

Why Aldsukkel instead of ProHawk? There's been a lot of talk about and from Prohawk, but not about or from Aldsukkel. I still don't totally understand why you guys want to lynch him.

270: Majiffy refuses to make a case on Rob13 since he (Majiffy) prefers to lynch ProHawk, and he can make the case on Rob13 if/when Rob13 becomes scummier. Of course, what if it's Day 2 and Majiffy dies and Rob13 is scum? I don't like this "not worried about being NK'd" mentality. For bonus points, it is also an excuse to not give content.

Misses the point, then takes two opportunities to backhandedly discredit me.

Sorry if you feel insulted, mate, but how is this not accurate? I don't think any of us missed the point, but don't think we also didn't pick up that you're taking for granted the fact that you won't be nightkilled. Why? Because you're a werewolf.
Now, that's taking a strong stance. Maybe your tongue slipped. I caught it. Ald just decided to be the one to point it out.

4nxiety, I'm suddenly apprehensive. You got a VT claim and immediately want to go on. I agree this is what a town at L-1 looks like, but you dismiss any possibility that he's scum. Just by percent, that raises the chance that you're scum-- the fact that you're Seer hunting makes me think you're a wolf.

Which is unsettling, because you were a townread. If y'all decide not to Seer Thor, Seer 4nx.

^mafiafaction wouldn't make comments like this. They would want to avoid giving off the impression that they are werewolf hunting, that way they don't risk drawing the werewolves' attention and the nk.

[ProHawk]

So you think she has a higher chance of being a wolf over Thor?

[4nxi3ty]

definitely.
With the way thor, uct, and sky interact.
and take into account how whiskers has no problem with majiffy arguing with thor(in fact whiskers praises majiffy) yet when he argues with ald whiskers feels the need to step in.

[ProHawk]

I want to see what Thor has to say, I might consider lynching Whiskers depending.

[Majiffy]

Right well I'm done arguing with Whiskers. Nothing productive is coming out of it and every time I prove a point he just goes "nuh uh!".

[Whiskers]

definitely.
With the way thor, uct, and sky interact.
and take into account how whiskers has no problem with majiffy arguing with thor(in fact whiskers praises majiffy) yet when he argues with ald whiskers feels the need to step in.

Wait wait wait. No. Both of these are incorrect. Firstly, I

did

step in during Majiffy vs Thor, and tried to ask Thor some questions myself, because I wasn't understanding what was going on.
Secondly, Majiffy wasn't arguing with Ald. Majiffy

asked

me

about Ald's post and when I said, "What do you mean?" he made a post about how he thought Ald's attacks on him were bad. The rest is he and I arguing whether or not the attacks are bad.

However,

I

fear that I look like the obvious wolf, because as little actual defending as I did, I did a lot more defending of Aldus than any other player.

Right well I'm done arguing with Whiskers. Nothing productive is coming out of it and every time I prove a point he just goes "nuh uh!".

Fuck you. I adopted your playstyle.
It's great that you quit as I'm starting to bring the individual things around and am actually able to ask you pertinent questions. There are a couple I've been asking for a while and now that I've got them together, I don't think you can answer them. Fucking scum.

[4nxi3ty]

hmm i missed that majiffy asked you to comment

Still
the way you say every point is wrong from majiffy seems to be an attempt at discrediting a buddy's attacker

in comparsion to you praising majiffy earlier
it paints a stark contrast

we could talk about a lampshade by Ald

And then Whiskers decides to defend me heavily. Pretty weird, ordinarily I might think 'scum who knows I'm town' except scum DON'T know who's town. So I guess he probably just really thinks I'm town, which I'm obviously cool with.

[Thor665]

Vote: Sky

(Insert admission of intentionally not explaining case here or even commenting on anything else here - so you can skip the 'explain pl0x' questions and skip right to reacting to the vote.)

[ProHawk]

Why were you avoiding this game at the end of the day Thor?

[Thor665]

How was I avoiding it?

[ProHawk]

Lets see... your last post before the end of the day was a vote for Sky (a non-wagon) approximately 46 hours before the deadline. You had previously expressed interest in lynching Aldu, but decided to change your mind-last-minute. HD and Whiskers then jump in to even up the odds to save Aldus by forcing me to be the counter-wagon. If everyone were to stay fast on their respective wagons, the deciding factor would have been down to you and Anxiety. Anxiety made his choice, however you didn't make a peep. There were about 80 posts from your last post until the end of the day and you didn't say one thing about it.

Evidence also points to you being on-site during that time, whilst you failed to post in this game.

[Josh Lyman]

Second Votecount (Day Two)

ProHawk: (1) Human Destroyer
Sky: (1) Thor665
Thor665: (3) ProHawk, Tajun, Sky
Whiskers: (4) 4nxi3ty, auspicious, Rob13, Majiffy

Not Voting: Whiskers

(expired on 2013-02-28 04:19:34)

10 alive, 6 for lynch

Snowstorm Alert (possible V/LA): Human Destroyer, Rob13

Ignoring Majiffy's request in post 998.

[Thor665]

Lets see... your last post before the end of the day was a vote for Sky (a non-wagon) approximately 46 hours before the deadline. You had previously expressed interest in lynching Aldu, but decided to change your mind-last-minute. HD and Whiskers then jump in to even up the odds to save Aldus by forcing me to be the counter-wagon. If everyone were to stay fast on their respective wagons, the deciding factor would have been down to you and Anxiety. Anxiety made his choice, however you didn't make a peep. There were about 80 posts from your last post until the end of the day and you didn't say one thing about it.

Evidence also points to you being on-site during that time, whilst you failed to post in this game.

So, to understand this correctly - you're saying I was soft-bussing my buddy, then decided to not bus him at all because who needs the town cred when you're the only killing faction, and then, to help push the counter through I decided not to try to encourage it.
Am I getting that right?

[Rob14]

Lets see... your last post before the end of the day was a vote for Sky (a non-wagon) approximately 46 hours before the deadline. You had previously expressed interest in lynching Aldu, but decided to change your mind-last-minute. HD and Whiskers then jump in to even up the odds to save Aldus by forcing me to be the counter-wagon. If everyone were to stay fast on their respective wagons, the deciding factor would have been down to you and Anxiety. Anxiety made his choice, however you didn't make a peep. There were about 80 posts from your last post until the end of the day and you didn't say one thing about it.

Evidence also points to you being on-site during that time, whilst you failed to post in this game.

Nevermind, Prohawk probably isn't scum.

[ProHawk]

Soft-Bus... Check.
Decision against the hard-bus... Check.
Helping to push the counter... Nope.
Hoping the counter wins without any help so as to avoid scrutiny... Check.
Getting out of VCA for a bus vote... Check.