Khan's Wacky Xylbot Mafia (Mini 1418) - Game Over

[Leafsnail]

@Scooby I'm not actually voting Katsuki now, I switched to TML.

leafsnail- You're case against TML does make sense but I would rather lynch MrObvious.

Fair enough, I don't think MrObvious is a bad lynch by any means. I disagree on Scooby though, his posts have screamed town to me even if I don't really agree with his conclusion.

Incidentally:

I see it. It's as if TML is dismissing Reck's claim.

Null:

+The_Mini-Librarian

Care to explain this one, MrObvious?

I'm not seeiing what leaf sees in 269. It looks like a valid question to me.

It's sortof a valid question (not really though due to Reck's claim). That isn't the point though - my issue is that the motivation behind asking this question, and TML's play as a whole, seems extremely suspect. It looks more like he's pressing players for openings (and thus mislynch possibilities) than trying to discern alignments.

[wind-up]

!vote The Mini-Librarian

As Leafsnail has pointed out, he seems to be searching for anti-town or unproductive behaviour instead of scummy behaviour.

People are calling you scum because almost all of your questions are to some extent saying "why am I scummy for doing this? I do this in all my games."

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

Besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting.

Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?

[Zang]

Scooby- I don't disagree with your case but I would like to allow luckyjt to try and post content before he is lynched.

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

Regardless of whether the meta is even true, it's scummy that he is using meta to justify anti-town behavior.

It is also scummy that, rather than by attempting to show the pro-town motivation in his posts, he tries to dismiss the cases against him with meta.

Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?

What does this have to do with what you quoted?

[Voidedmafia]

Because Reck had claimed a town role, the two were not equal. That basically makes the question answered before it was asked. Therefore, invalid.

Claiming a town role does not mean you are immediately conftown without information to back it up or mod-related confirmation (InnoChilds being confirmed, claiming sane cop with enough guilties/innos to prove sanity and the claim, etc.). No where does claiming a town role equate doing shit-all for scumhunting, and I don't want to be in a game where that's true.

I dont get the case on MR OBVIOUS, i kinda like his last list with kthxbye as scum, im still torn about the katsuki hate...

tl;dr Obvious fucked up his reasoning for voting kthnx by saying stuff near the vote and changing it nearly 8 pages later. Most of it reads (to me) as him fabricating reasoning to suit his needs at the time.

It's sortof a valid question (not really though due to Reck's claim). That isn't the point though - my issue is that the motivation behind asking this question, and TML's play as a whole, seems extremely suspect. It looks more like he's pressing players for openings (and thus mislynch possibilities) than trying to discern alignments.

As indicated above I don't think the claim makes the question irrelevant, but that's a separate point here.

I admit I haven't been getting this vibe from TML that you say you're getting. Granted, I haven't had the most time in the world as of late, but The question in question doesn't feel like he's looking for a mislynch angle.

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

And yet that's the best she can come up with? I mean, I won't try to say that her pleading, "It's what I do!" hasn't been able to get her out of rough spots or win her games, but she wouldn't be able to win scummies if that was ALL to her play, and I would expect her to be able to do more.

[MrObvious]

tl;dr Obvious fucked up his reasoning for voting kthnx by saying stuff near the vote and changing it nearly 8 pages later. Most of it reads (to me) as him fabricating reasoning to suit his needs at the time.

If it was fabrication, why would I bait him after the fact and then later up bring it up myself that I had reread the game and remembered something that I had forgotten? If I was scum, I wouldn't gift wrap such an inconsistency to you and Zang.

[Kthxbye]

I'm town! Conf town!

[Voidedmafia]

I'm town! Conf town!

...right.

[Voidedmafia]

If it was fabrication, why would I bait him after the fact and then later up bring it up myself that I had reread the game and remembered something that I had forgotten? If I was scum, I wouldn't gift wrap such an inconsistency to you and Zang.

Perhaps, but neither do I see the town motivation for setting up what looks like a reaction-test vote on kthnx and repeatedly denying that it IS a reaction-test (specifically to Kthnx and to the other players in general), only to more or less reverse this and admit that you were reaction-testing kthnx 8 pages later, way too long after admitting to such would actually look town.

[MrObvious]

and repeatedly denying that it IS a reaction-test

I denied that I said it was. There is a huge difference and we've been around this circle already way too many times already. Either way, doesn't matter, I reread the game and remembered what I was thinking at the time and have since made it clear where I stood.

[wind-up]

Scooby- I don't disagree with your case but I would like to allow luckyjt to try and post content before he is lynched.

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

Regardless of whether the meta is even true, it's scummy that he is using meta to justify anti-town behavior.

jus·ti·fy
/ˈjəstəˌfī/
Verb
1. Show or prove to be right or reasonable.
2. Be a good reason for.

I don't think Katsuki is using meta to 'justify' his 'anti-town behaviour'. I think Katsuki is using meta to show that what you are calling 'anti-town behaviour' is simply a feature of his play. Would you mind giving an example of where you think Katsuki has used meta to justify anti-town behaviour, or if you concede my point, show where he's used meta in a scummy or bad way?

It is also scummy that, rather than by attempting to show the pro-town motivation in his posts, [Katsuki] tries to dismiss the cases against him with meta.

No, it's just lazy. Would it make a difference if someone other than Katsuki dismissed the cases against Katsuki based on Katsuki's meta? If so, why?

Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?

What does this have to do with what you quoted?

Would you mind answering the question first?

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

And yet that's the best she can come up with? I mean, I won't try to say that her pleading, "It's what I do!" hasn't been able to get her out of rough spots or win her games, but she wouldn't be able to win scummies if that was ALL to her play, and I would expect her to be able to do more.

This sounds like a fallacious appeal to accomplishment to me.

[Voidedmafia]

This sounds like a fallacious appeal to accomplishment to me.

And you're going to sit/stand there and tell me that Katsuki's actions so far are certainly up to par for as good a scumhunter that she claims she is and others think she is?

[Zang]

I don't think Katsuki is using meta to 'justify' his 'anti-town behaviour'. I think Katsuki is using meta to show that what you are calling 'anti-town behaviour' is simply a feature of his play. Would you mind giving an example of where you think Katsuki has used meta to justify anti-town behaviour, or if you concede my point, show where he's used meta in a scummy or bad way?

Anti-town behavior is anti-town behavior, it does not matter if it is a part of his normal play and Katsuki is still using meta to justify it.

Katsuki shows this in posts 136, 213, 219 and 258.

Does this mean that you think that Katsuki is town? If so, what makes you think that? Also, have you completely read the rest of the game?

No, it's just lazy. Would it make a difference if someone other than Katsuki dismissed the cases against Katsuki based on Katsuki's meta? If so, why?

Laziness might be a possible town motivation for doing it. However, scum definitely have the most motivation to do it. Katsuki can just point to his town meta as scum and be excused from scummy actions. Besides, I do not accept laziness as a valid excuse for anti-town behavior.

I don't really care about the meta. If someone else pointed out the meta and Katsuki chose to defend himself in a pro-town way, than I would not find him nearly as scummy. However, if someone else pointed out the meta and Katsuki still dismissed the case against himself, then he would still be scummy.

Would you mind answering the question first?

Expectations really don't mean anything. I believe that it is completely unreasonable to attack somebody and not give them the chance to defend themselves. However, if someone chooses not to defend themselves than that is their choice.

[The Mini-Librarian]

I'm alive. Weekend was more time consuming than I anticipated. Posts coming within the next hour or so.

[The Mini-Librarian]

It was a question to Mr Obvious, to see if his reason for voting kat was just bullshit or not. Basically if you have a scum read on Kat for that reason imo you should have one on Reck. He doesn't.

OK, you are scum. You aren't actually considering anyone's alignment - you're just trying to score points against Mr Obvious by pointing out a "contradiction". In particular you're avoiding any actual comment on the alignment of Katsuki even though he's the leading wagon

and

you're mentioning him here, instead preferring to vaguely attack someone on the wagon.

!vote: The Mini-Librarian

I saw something that didn't make sense to me and I asked it. You can attack the validity of the question like shos did, but to say I wasn't trying to scumhunt with this question is reaching hard. I wanted him to explain to me why he didn't see Katsuki's contribution as the same as Reck's and he ignored it at first. (the reason I didn't give a read on Katsuki is that I don't have one. he's null. Mostly I just found mr obvious' attack on him to be bad possibly scummy.)

Mr Obvious has ignored yet another question that could help ascertain his alignment in leafsnail's 350

!vote: mrobvious

[MrObvious]

I never ignored any your questions, TML. The answer to leafsnail is, nope, IMO, there is nothing to elaborate on, hence NULL.

[MrObvious]

We just need one more dumbass on me.

[MrObvious]

Oh, it's 7 to lynch. Still need 2.

[Kthxbye]

MrObvious - 4 (Luckyjt Voidedmafia Zang, TML)

Here, I'll make your p366 true for your horrible math skillz and for the AtE you just posted based off those horrible math skillz.

!vote MrObvious

[MrObvious]

One more! I'd self hammer if it weren't against my wincon.

[MrObvious]

You claim at L-1, Kthx, not L-0.

[Kthxbye]

So...you don't read what people actually post then is what you're saying

you are at 5 votes including mine...and mine was only semi-serious...after the AtE in p368, it's now just plain serious.

[MrObvious]

It's pointless at this point. Dumbasses are gonna be dumbasses and scum is gonna be scum. Dumbasses and scum split hairs to bring down the town. That's where we stand.

[Kthxbye]

Funny thing about your latest rant. Self hammering isn't against wincon if done right. Secondly, you being at L-2 and going into a pity-me AtE hissy -fit isn't town like at all. You just justified everyone voting you.

[MrObvious]

Keep it coming. I'm obvscum.

[Kthxbye]

That is becoming more apparent, yes.