I don't really buy his explanation, He is different than his usual play.. therefore, Scummy to me.
Have you looked at other I meta, because that one game does not make a case on me, especially if I can't even see what the hell is logical about my posts there? The adding extreme possibilities to the discussion on day 3? Or something else?
I don't recall what you described happening there in that game. The fact game was also broken makes it mean even less that standard 1-meta cases. Where have I been lacking logic in this game that was apparently present in that game?
I'm not saying I didn't play differently, no game is the same.
His last doesn't read scummy role fishing to me - more not-thinking derpness
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
In post 923, Human Destroyer wrote:Not only that, GM, his strongest fucking townread who was still a townread 50 posts ago, is now his strongest scumread out of those being wagoned.
I never said GM was my strongest scumread out of those being wagoned. I said that Jenn and Panzer were being more useful, so would be a greater loss if mislynched D1. I was willing to switch to the wagons in order to avoid a No Lynch.
Openly speculating about who is and isn't a mason is anti-town, regardless of Nic's intentions.
I don't understand how you can think my intention was to lynch Josh/Jenn given my D1 play.
In post 923, Human Destroyer wrote:Not only that, GM, his strongest fucking townread who was still a townread 50 posts ago, is now his strongest scumread out of those being wagoned.
I never said GM was my strongest scumread out of those being wagoned. I said that Jenn and Panzer were being more useful, so would be a greater loss if mislynched D1. I was willing to switch to the wagons in order to avoid a No Lynch.
Openly speculating about who is and isn't a mason is anti-town, regardless of Nic's intentions.
I don't understand how you can think my intention was to lynch Josh/Jenn given my D1 play.
1) No, you said and I quote, GM was "the lesser of 3 evils", which implies you are most willing to lynch her, which implies you have the strongest scumread on her.
2) Not really. Revealing the masons gives us 2 confirmed town if anything, which is actually
pro
-town. Masons don't usually out themselves because for some reason people have this weird sense of "we need to keep them around" when we really don't; they're the equivalent of 3 goddamn ICs, why keep them hidden? [/rant]
1) Not necessarily. My townread on GM had been diluted, but I still held all 3 at slight town reads. GM was contributing the least of the three, so I figured mislynching her would have been a lesser evil than mislynching Panzer or Jenn.
2) That's a completely different argument. If both Masons claim that's fine, I guess, but you shouldn't be speculating about who it might be.
3) was in response to Nic. You are doing this a lot...
First, I want to apologize for my inactivity, both to our host and the other players. I'll try to make something more decent with this post. Also, another thing, for the sake of the game, can people not say stuff like I'm obvtown or whatever? Idk about other people, but it kinda kills the game for me and seems pretty harmful for discussion. Moving on though, I find the HD vs Serra debate to be rather dull. HD's point is interesting, but tbh, I think he's going after nothing, at least in regards too GM. I'll certainly admit that him voting along with his main suspect is suspicious, however, considering his reasoning, I don't find it that outlandish, and certainly not as big a deal as people seem to be making out of it. Pretty much, even though some of it looks suspicious, it seems natural to me.
Also, HD, though you say it's a discussion for postgame, in just a few sentences, can you say how masons being revealed/claiming is a good thing? It means they'll be kill off, and so completely eliminates a very good source of information, i.e. who died and trying to figured out why those who died did, it doesn't really give people that much information as such, and while is does mean there are cleaned players, having a clean player alone doesn't help the village. Even if one were to be lynched, as in Panzer's case, they can just claim. Them being confirmed village shouldn't help there points much, as we should really be basing points and reads off of validity of arguments, and only partially who they come from. Overall, I just don't see it.
Finally, on the subject of the Hydra, having read through all there posts, I maintain my inability to get a read on them. However, having read through, I believe I can now state more precisely why I'm unable to get a read on them. This lies primarily on the combination of two things: The first, and most obvious, is the difference in play styles, yet enough similarity and difference in activity for it to be annoying. The second is the style of posting of Mehdi, the head who I notice more. A large amount of these posts seem to have to do with others, and asking question, shifting things around, etc, and that fact that the way in which people are questioned is quite random as I can see, with few patterns. If Mehdi has any meta I could see, that would be helpful, since currently I'm having to go for scum leaning, just do to how they seem more artificial and all their posts too well thought out. As for Els, even having read through all posts, I still feel I haven't seen enough consistently to get a read.
So yeah, don't sub me, and I'll try to be more active and rather then doing wall or wall-esq posts every once and a while, have more short, relevant posts.
In post 931, KX wrote:Also, HD, though you say it's a discussion for postgame, in just a few sentences, can you say how masons being revealed/claiming is a good thing? It means they'll be kill off, and so completely eliminates a very good source of information, i.e. who died and trying to figured out why those who died did, it doesn't really give people that much information as such, and while is does mean there are cleaned players, having a clean player alone doesn't help the village. Even if one were to be lynched, as in Panzer's case, they can just claim. Them being confirmed village shouldn't help there points much, as we should really be basing points and reads off of validity of arguments, and only partially who they come from. Overall, I just don't see it.
The tl;dr version is that it forces scum to deal with 2-3 confirmed town and makes their mislynch pool smaller.
How is that different to masons claiming to avoid being lynched?
My read on GM wasn't strongly town by the time we got towards the end of D1. I didn't post anymore full reads, so unfortunately I have no way of proving that, except through my action of compromising to her lynch, which is of course the very thing you're attacking.
In post 936, JacobSavage wrote:Arc just sit back and quickhammer, its what you normally do.
No hard feelings Jacob but lets mix things. you can clearly tell that i was wrong about it and that was not intentional. So i would suggest you to get over it soon.
Back to the game..
HD thinks you're scum, what's your thoughts on that?
I don't care really, it's more that it seems to be your style as of late. Its concerning.
He's wrong obviously.Although he appears to be spending most of his energy pushing serra, which is odd considering that he's been pushing me quite a long time.
But currently I think he's town, lets work from there.
Hey HD, come love me with your accusations.
Knock it off Jacob, just becuase my style is not your style doesnt mean it is bad. I agree on few flaws but at least my play is lot better than many here... at least i am not agreesive and crazy. And stop concerning about it.. Remember you're in game with bunch of people not by yourself.
Well the reason I'm asking is I want to know your thoughts on Jacob. Because I really think the hydra has a better chance of being scum. I completely agree with you on serra
It's not exactly that I think you're more town, it's that I really think the Hydra is scummy. I can't really read you, but the fact that serra and the hydra are both willing to vote for you makes it seem less likely that you are scum.
i am confused with the post above...
so you think Hydra is scummy but the fact a scum & Serra(who you didn't mention scum or town) votes Jacob makes Jacob less scum? What kind of logic is that?
Things you need to clear up
Hydra - Do you think or do you have good reasons to consider hydra scum? State the reasons
Jacob- Apart from your theory of Hydra's vote and Serra vote makes him town, do you have anything else?
And what do you think of Serra?
I'll replace out tomorrow (which really just means els replaces in as himself or keeps on using the doctor account by himself) because of school stuff. For now I'll wall a bit on stuff since I haven't said much in a while:
A. My current scum team idea is gm/klick/hd. Now going into that the main reason I personally have hd as scum (and els has said other stuff I think) is the way he's argued several things. Multiple times he's done more to try to make his argument seem better or longer then focus on the important thing or continuously fight back everything which reminds me of his play in my mini that ended a couple days ago. His argument style in this game is more I can argue better and respond more then focus on the meaning of things (most noticeable case is the things where he isos people and includes posts he thinks are town or most of the time any argument on something he'll attack back vs discuss or question as much). Klick I'll mention near the end.
B. KX I'll annoy you but I still think he's town. I also currently think AA's town as well primarily by past experience and there are some things like the cheery push which while annoying don't really have a scum motivation with the way she's going about it.
C. Let me clear up the serra thing (and hd I'm ignoring whatever response I see from you on this afterward). She defended the counter wagon to gm a lot. She didn't bus gm when that's far more noticeable and easier to get town cred. Scum don't wifom very often and it's exaggerated (there's a nice wikia article on it) since by definition it commonly involves non ideal play. But more so it isn't something most people would notice. I think els was the first to mention it but how many of you actually noticed that even with her town read on gm she was helping him get lynched with all the josh defense? If we're one of the only people to notice it the idea she'd fake it is very doubtful. HD you only called it wifom and such after it was pointed out which kind of shows you didn't notice it either so it's very doubtful she'd plan it and expect it to help her (it also requires more skill then I expect she has since good wifom is honestly pretty rare). Serra is someone both sides of this hydra currently believe is very likely town.
D. Nic is also town to me for the way he with els and the biggest town tell in it was the way he tried to clarify something on a previous thing said that came off to me mostly to help in clarity and not really attack or push.
E. Jennifer is pretty town to me based on the events of yesterday. For her to be scum it's needed for her under high pressure to decide the best course of action is to bus hard on someone with previously near 0 suspicion and try to remove votes from herself with that (if it was only the first it could be argued it was to make him look better and she planned to die but together it was an unnecessary bus since she was already dealing with the votes without that). Bussing that much is still a big town tell and I don't care what wifom argument anyone tries to say on this.
F. Cheery's question would be I think I just went off past memory back then since back then I never remembered nic as a key player. As for a cheery read I still think he's town with a decent portion on tone/AA reaction stuff plus I think his choice to scum read us day 1 before the suspicion really occurred at all also looks town to me.
G. Originally I had bork as a town read for replacement and going in stuff but honestly I think him and klick are both coasting. To me they lean scum but are honestly not strong reads. HD/bork/gm I can see fine too and klick is just worse in I think his early posts sound cautious and trying to look like usual town brave klick at the same time so the tone disconnect early on hurts him while bork's entrance helps him a bit but not too much.
H. Jacob's picture is still a strong town tell. Beyond the prettiness, look at what it actually contained and tell me how easy it is to fake thoughts that detailed on posts as scum.
So together:
Town (no real order)
Jennifer
KX
AA
Jacob
Nic
serra
Cheery
Scum (strongest to weakest read)
HD
Klick
Bork
I. On the mason thing they'll never die anyway by lynch because of claim (unless cc which can happen if they claim now) so the benefits of what hd's arguing for them to claim already practically exist and all it really gets us is the con of them dying sooner. Similar to my serra defense I'm not going to go back and forth on hd with this.
J. Lastly any last questions to me or anything I missed and people would like me to comment on today/tomorrow tell me. I will replace out tomorrow.
Oh one other thing. KX if you want a list of meta for me go look for the name mehdi2277 on the mafia scum wiki. About the first 20 of my games are talked a bit about on that page and all have links on it (if you want more go to Mehdi2277's user page and look at topics I've posted in and check the ones that are mafia games).
On the questioning part in Meta Mafia I got the role role cop for the reasoning that I ask a lot of questions and have said so. I'm pretty self-meta conscious. Neatness is kind of connected to me being pretty organized with game stuff (plans I've written in marketplace mafia and detective mafia as town support that).
Assuming you're still here, what is the time difference in relation to points D & F?
Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.
