NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[Maestro]

Guys, seriously, I said cut the personal attacks. This is getting extremely out of hand.

[UberNinja]

It's a mutual hate based on mutual love and respect

I can't expect you to understand, Maestro

</3

[AngryPidgeon]

Could we get a VC maybe? Im basically just going to vote whoever of Zab/Majiffy has most votes for the rest of the Day.

[UberNinja]

Could we get a VC maybe? Im basically just going to vote whoever of Zab/Majiffy has most votes for the rest of the Day.

^

Zab scumslipped and said I was a mislynch
And then Majiffy was misrepping me mightily

The funny part is, Zab originally complained that Majiffy was misrepping HIM

Distancing, anyone? lol

[AngryPidgeon]

Zab scumslipped and said I was a mislynch

Sorry Im exhausted right now. Could you point me to that? Not that Im going to argue against lynching Zab, lol.

[UberNinja]

Buldermar quoted and voted, so he got what I meant.

Or he just sheeped me because he's horrible and evil and wanted me to take the fall for an Uber mislynch.

UNVOTE:

Dammit. Now I feel weird. Bodyguard makes perfect sense for this game. Making up a fake PM from JS makes no sense. Assuming that somebody is using that as a gambit seems completely outlandish. I think Uber was the one who told us to stop using too scum to be scum. So awful push + too much irony = town?

PEdit: Regardless of Buldermar's alignment, I feel that assuming that was a gambit is objectively bad. Or at least that he didn't get a PM. He may have mentioned it to gambit. I don't feel it though. What would he get out of that other than scolded like he did?

Buldermar quoted and voted, so he got what I meant.

Or he just sheeped me because he's horrible and evil and wanted me to take the fall for an Uber mislynch.

Unvote; Vote: zabriel

You KNOW.

[buldermar]

buldey plz tell me you are protecting IaI

you are protecting IaI

who has claimed cop and is making sense and not putting up with matt's dramaqueening about

yes, plz protect IaI we need another cop read if nothing else just to stop matt's freaking tantrums. if he is a good player then we need him but if he is scum let him gtfo and get lynched.

this actually will help IaI's case wrt to her cop claim as in, at some point and time she will be answerable for that read. it is bottlenecking scum's options later in the game, have you learned nothing on tr???????

I love it when you talk dirty, hun!

[buldermar]

Let's just agree to be lynching Zab, then. A VT claim scares everyone, but think about it: Another power role claim would have to be hammered for lying. Right now, scum's safer fake claim IS vt.

This is not how things work. Claims are WIFOM, as is most of everything else in this game.

[buldermar]

I've read and if anything you look more scummy than before. However, Uber Ninja also looks scummy for having such a strong town read on you out of the blue, I'll give you that.

Really? I look scummy for basically admitting I look scummy up to that point and pointing the finger at the only person defending me? Ok then, cool. Lynch me and pretend to be surprised tomorrow.

*nods*
this increases my suspicion of buldermar again

also, the whole role PM and PM from Jacob thing feels like a gambit of some kind

clearly jacob couldn't be arsed about this game
why should he care now?

I feel insulted that you'd think I'd fake another player on this site breaking a site-wide rule. I'd never do this sort of defamation, it would be extremely unethical.

far be it from a mafia player to lie

i know

It's not a matter of fucking lying. Lying is a part of the game. Defamation is not. Do you even comprehend the point I'm conveying or are you just being intentionally dense now? I'm not going to waste my fucking time showing that I can't be scum if you're not going to carefully read the points I'm making.

[buldermar]

Lynch me and pretend to be surprised tomorrow.

here's another town tell, if anyone was counting

oh wait, no, everyone's fucking idiots

This isn't a fucking town-tell, it's him playing the ancient "look I don't care herpderp"-card.

nah i like the way he said "pretend to be surprised" instead of something about he'd flip town

it's teh second tier of consciousness that's implied which makes this more townie sounding

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[buldermar]

so it may very well contain his targets from night 1 and night 2.

This information, you need to know it, so if that's all it is, then it's not going to be an issue as far as I'm aware. But yeah this kind of stuff should done through mod. You should probably have not told us he pm'ed you and just asked the mod for direction before commenting.

exactly why it feels like a gambit

At the risk of repeating myself, it couldn't be a gambit because I'd never claim that someone else were breaking a site-rule to gain a personal advantage in a game, and most certainly not someone I a) don't even know and b) isn't even a part of the game anymore.

"it couldn't be a gambit because i'd never... "

i stopped reading at that part

Then it is entirely your own fault that you fail to comprehend how this could not have been a gambit. You're stuck in your confirmation bias, ignoring everything that proves your hypothesis that I am scum false. I'm done wasting my time on you.

[buldermar]

Do not contact any player in or outside of the game about the game unless specifically allowed to by the moderator. When allowed, only do so in the specific manner allowed.

...

Do not discuss ongoing games in the game.
Do not discuss this game anywhere else with anyone else.

No matter what information the PM contains, this is OBVIOUSLY a breakage of site rules
JacobSavage will be dealt with accordingly. Please continue with the game.

guess it's not a gambit

this swings buldy back to town and jacob STRONGLY to "complete fucking moron"

NO SHIT SHERLOCK "clap clap clap".

you sound a little too happy/excited at this result

but you're forgetting:

didja notice the mod said "no matter what info the PM contains" which implies to me that you could have been lying about it and he just didn't want to say it outright. honestly he should have just ignored it but maestro is maestro after all

and jacob is a fucking moron whether or not your slot's town

so it doesn't clear you in the least for taking advantage of his cuntitude

I don't get how the fuck that would imply to you that I had been lying about it, and quite frankly I don't care either because you've already proven to be incapable of rational thinking, ignoring things I say that disprove your own hypothesis.

I'm clear. The question is only if enough people in this game are well-enough equipped, conceptually speaking, to comprehend how I cannot be scum because I would not defame a person who isn't even part of the game by claiming that he has been breaking site-rules. In fact, I'm not even sure that doing so wouldn't be against the rules and thus would have gotten me a warning or a ban. In short: you're wrong and I'm beginning to think that you're incapable of understanding why.

[buldermar]

whoever pointed out that rev starts lashing out at any target in reach, once suspicion gets directed towards him, was actually right

Ofc I'm right - the question is whether or not this is indicative of alignment. I'm not 100% certain, but I still think he's a good lynch for today.

oh that was you

yea i never remember

who

said stuff, just vaguely remember that it was said

Then you have chosen the wrong game to play.

[buldermar]

Okay, except that if JS sent no PM to Buldermar that's libel and it's going to ruin a reputation. If there's not an actual rule against gambitting this way it still violates the spirit of our community rules. I think you'd best retire that Uber.

As I expected, there would be people in this game well-enough equipped, conceptually speaking, to understand why I wouldn't do something as unethical as claiming that a person who isn't part of the game has been breaking a site-wide rule. Thank you, zabriel, for taking your time using your brain to actively think about this situation rather than blindly following the lead of someone who's stuck in confirmation bias, namely Uber Ninja.

[buldermar]

It might get him this game, and then when he can't show us the PM everybody thinks he's evil and refuses to play with him for the rest of time. This is not a viable strategy.

You don't have to worry. I'm a person of high ethical standards and I really do feel insulted that someone would blindly assume otherwise.

Uber Ninja, instead of blindly assuming that I'm extremely unethical, why don't you ask some of the players I have played multiple games with before if I have ever done something unethical to give me an unfair advantage in a game? As I've already stated in this game, I don't even intentionally stall for time by lurking when doing so would be to my advantage, although that would be an entirely reasonable thing to do.

[pirate mollie]

buldey what am I going to do with you

UNVOTE: majiffy

[buldermar]

buldey what am I going to do with you

UNVOTE: majiffy

I have plenty of ideas!

Forgive me if you have clearly stated this already, but do you have any scum reads and if yes, who?

[Aj The Epic]

This is not how things work. Claims are WIFOM, as is most of everything else in this game.

Mafia will claim what will keep them alive, or get an important town player lynched

[buldermar]

This is not how things work. Claims are WIFOM, as is most of everything else in this game.

Mafia will claim what will keep them alive, or get an important town player lynched

Unless doing so will get themselves lynched, in which case they'll claim the exact opposite. It's WIFOM.

[Aj The Epic]

You're over thinking that. Like I said, mafia will claim what will keep them alive. VT, in that scenario, would keep them alive. There is no way to doublethink that. I understand you can apply WIFOM to just about anything (like the brownies that claim "Just add water"), but it's not smart to add it here. Doesn't make sense to add a power role in right now for them.

[buldermar]

You're over thinking that. Like I said, mafia will claim what will keep them alive. VT, in that scenario, would keep them alive. There is no way to doublethink that. I understand you can apply WIFOM to just about anything (like the brownies that claim "Just add water"), but it's not smart to add it here. Doesn't make sense to add a power role in right now for them.

This is

not

a matter of opinion.

What keeps scum alive depends on what will get them lynched. Specifically, that which keeps them alive is

exactly

what remains when one substract that which gets them lynched from the total pool of options.

In this case, our pool of options is {VT-claim, powerrole-claim}. Either there is a general rule that can be applied (e.g., VT-claim is always scum and powerrole-claim is always town) or there isn't. In case there is, you merely apply that rule and can thus succesfully decide when a claim is coming from a scum and when a claim is coming from a town. In case there isn't, we're talking about an equilibrium, specifically one refered to in this context as WIFOM. In this case, there is no general rule encompassing both options, which is just another way of saying that it boils down to a case of WIFOM.

A final note: WIFOM isn't some ingredient you can add or apply to a scenario. Scenarios can't be "more or less" WIFOM. Each individual scenario in its simplest form is either a WIFOM scenario or not, just as each statement in its simplest form is either correct or incorrect (law of the excluded middle).

[Lord Mhork]

Hey, mollie. You should totally lynch zabriel with me. It'll almost be as exciting as arc angel.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey, mollie. You should totally lynch zabriel with me. It'll almost be as exciting as arc angel.

VOTE: Zabriel

I agree with Uber that the "He was trying to get me to ML Uber" looked really bad.

[TheReverend]

VOTE: zabriel

[enter reason here]

[MattP]

VOTE: Zabriel

Whatever just end the day