The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!

[kuribo]

Because a counter leads to one hundred percent caught scum.

Lack of a counter could just... you know, make him the doc.

[BT]

Actually

I don't know how Kise plays. Do you know how Kise plays? Would he taunt people into lynching him as the most important town pr?

(this is a question and an argument)

[sottyrulez]

There is the possibility that there is no town aligned doctor. That's probably worth mentioning.

[BT]

Anyone else can answer that too

[The Baltimore Sun]

Day 2, Votecount 33

kuribo (1) - JasonT1981

Kise (7) - The Mini-Librarian, Cerulean, Ser Arthur Dayne, sottyrulez, Benmage, camn, BT

BT (2) - Channeldelibird, kuribo
Ser Arthur Dayne (3) - Deasvail, Plessiezarus, Zdenek
sottyrulez (2) - Kise, Nostredeus

Not voting (1) :

ZONEACE

• With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on 22nd of February at 00:30am GMT
  
• Countdown to deadlien: (expired on 2013-02-21 20:30:28)
  
• No one is V/la!

[sottyrulez]

It'd be cool if people said they agree with me if they do because so far I'm still assuming sotty won't be lynched today

Vig or SK. I'll leave you to ponder that.

O...k.

pedit oh I'm at 6.
Well I'm that white guy you all were talking about, the lawyer. Doc. I stll think sotty is SK.

Having not even established a third party SK for certain, what townie is actually thinking this way and basing lynches on SK theories at this point?

This is why Kise isn't town.

[Plessiezarus]

There is the possibility that there is no town aligned doctor. That's probably worth mentioning.

That's always possible, having co-modded with Faraday, I'm always paranoid about him being subversive and attempting to anticipate claims when building setups. As an example: in the Westerosi Wheel of Time game he modded the Finder Role -equivalent to the Cop role in MS- was shadow-aligned.

I'm also really disconcerted about BT's recent train of thought, to me it seems kinda paranoid, actually?

~ Zar.

[BT]

Hoping CDB posts before this day ends. My jaw hasn't dropped in response to his cases unlike others and him not even bothering with rebuttals and anything else despite having a day off and despite seeming like the I Will Push This BT Lynch guy when he was talking about it makes me raise a brow.

Sotty, offtopic, do you agree with me on DV?

PEdit: What do you mean by paranoid?

[sottyrulez]

I also think what I just said about DV not commenting on the absta connection means he pretty much hasn't bothered getting an accurate read on me

You mean this?

Eh. I don't really like to hunt on connections personally. I don't think it's particularly significant unless there's town meta that indicates that he would take that kind of stuff into account heavily.

~Duplicate post on zachrulez account deleted

[jasonT1981]

Alright, I see I missed a good bit and the Kuribo (my no1 suspect) wagon disappeared. I have said I could go for a Kise lynch today. Already given my reasons why so

vote:Kise

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

As for our case against him ... it's not just based on an associative tell. Arthur certainly does make a lot of sense as scum with both TGAH and absta based on their posts, but his posts are also suspicious in their own right.

Based on this, I'm not quite sure you know what "associative tells" are, as you state here that my "posts are also suspicious in their own right", but go on to point out associative tells?

* There's his reaction to absta's NK, for a start, in 1013. Why does town get

angrier

about somebody being useless when they learn that person

wasn't trying to be helpful anyway

? That doesn't make sense. This reads much more like the reaction of angry scum who is irritated that his buddy played badly and got himself killed.

Umm, and why would "scum who is irritated that his buddy played badly and got himself killed" announce his frustration like that on thread. Also, if you're really concerned with why I was so mad, it's because I've seen absta play much better than that, and was kind of appalled and disgusted that he would use such a dirty tactic as scum, and honestly didn't expect it from him.

* There's also his attempt to shift attention away from absta, in 309

Post 309 is neither "attempt[ing] to shift attention away from absta" nor my post.

497.

See: Part where I said I thought absta can become useful because I have seen him play usefully and genuinely thought he was just having RL issues or w/e.

Not because absta seemed town to him, but because of "the small hope that Absta will contribute something".

Yes. Look up the definition of Policy Lynch maybe and then come back to me?

In fact, despite suggesting as early as 321 that absta might have been faking how overwhelmed he was "just as an excuse to lurk", SAD never did anything to follow up on any suspicions of absta. This isn't what I'd expect from Arthur if he were town.

Yes. I'm supposed to follow and raise hell over every little suspicion I have instead of letting things play out and analyze them over a longer period of time. Noted.

* The somewhat gloating tone of posts like 268

How is this scummy or scum motivated? Because this just looks like a red herring right now.

1159 is also something we think is much more likely to come from scum!Arthur than town!Arthur.

Why? Explain.

* Arthur has thrown out lots of ideas or reads that we just don't feel fit with his earlier posts (for instance, there's the fact he claims in 445 to have had a town-read on Vifam based on posts Vifam made

before

268, in which Arthur insisted that town-reads on Vifam were "hilariously naive")

Yes, as a supercomputer, I am not prone to making any mistakes.

or that we simply don't believe Arthur can think are true (see, for instance, his claim in 1072 that Dan replacing out the way he did is "MoS-scum from ADWD all over again" -- Arthur has played in games, and recently, in which people argued with Tammy and replaced out, as town. His attempts to suggest the act of angrily replacing out is inherently suspicious are disingenuous.)

Affirming the consequent much?

In fact, his choice of targets reeks of opportunism. He throws out unexplained reads, and talks about people being town or scum, but he's more than happy to drop those reads for no reason if he can be part of an easy lynch. (See, for instance, his weak town read on Kise in 1079,1231, followed by his more recent vote. He's not given any reason to stop town-reading Kise, he hasn't even noted that he's ignoring his earlier read. But Kise looked like an easy lynch, and that seems to be all Arthur cares about.)

Yes, I'm not supposed to compromise on a lynch that I think can possibly hit scum (I mean you yourself stated I had a weak townread on Kise :rolleyes:) near deadline. Neither am I supposed to change my reads on people. Noted.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Alright, I see I missed a good bit and the Kuribo (my no1 suspect) wagon disappeared. I have said I could go for a Kise lynch today. Already given my reasons why so

vote:Kise

So you have literally nothing to say about his claim and just hop on the wagon? Mmk.

[Cerulean]

Running out the door, but noticed kise is at l-1, so not interested in a hammer right this minute.

UNVOTE:

I'll be back in a bit to actually read some things, but I have a couple thoughts and don't want the day ending yet.

[Plessiezarus]

Alright, I see I missed a good bit and the Kuribo (my no1 suspect) wagon disappeared. I have said I could go for a Kise lynch today. Already given my reasons why so

vote:Kise

So you have literally nothing to say about his claim and just hop on the wagon? Mmk.

This post comes from somebody who only just hopped on the wagon himself, hasn't said anything about the claim, and hasn't removed his vote.

And yet people continue to insist that SAD isn't scum .

~ Pless

[DeasVail]

BT, what is the Absta connection?

Also, one of my points I admitted was bad, but the others are fine in my opinion.

About the part that you were confused with, the point is that you originally said the information reason for not wanting to lynch Kise was wagon analysis. Then when Cerulean accuses you of using information as a reason in a game with so much information already, you say that you meant that more posts from Kise or a replacement would make the slot more readable, and you don't understand why Cerulean accused you of what he did.

[Plessiezarus]

Oh, and I'd reply to SAD's 1860, but it's so obviously nothing but pointless nit-picking ("oh no, I said 309, not 399! Well, that really hurts my case "), over-aggression and sarcastic misrepresentation of our claims. It actually makes the case for SAD as scum better than we could, to anyone familiar with his meta.

~ Pless

[BT]

BT, what is the Absta connection?

Also, one of my points I admitted was bad, but the others are fine in my opinion.

About the part that you were confused with, the point is that you originally said the information reason for not wanting to lynch Kise was wagon analysis. Then when Cerulean accuses you of using information as a reason in a game with so much information already, you say that you meant that more posts from Kise or a replacement would make the slot more readable, and you don't understand why Cerulean accused you of what he did.

I'm talking about CDB's case that everyone seemed to like at the time. I don't think you ever mentioned it / your agreement with it / your disagreement with it.

I also believe I said Kise needs to replace out at the very beginning, so no, you're wrong about that.

~*~

I actually read through Arthur's D1 again and... I don't think I have any problems with it. I'm not familiar with scum SAD and I don't have anything to say even after skimming Open 472 so... I don't know what to say here. Like, yes, he could have been tunneling on Jason as an easy target to excuse him of more major scumhunting but I don't think it particularly came from scum. *sigh*

[BT]

Hmm, DV, can you be a little more clear on your priorities (me, SAD, Kise) and how everything fits together?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Oh, and I'd reply to SAD's 1860, but it's so obviously nothing but pointless nit-picking

Yea, you'd reply as much as you did to 1784 where I proved what you were claiming was BS

"oh no, I said 309, not 399! Well, that really hurts my case "

Yea, because I can totally reply to a claim that points to a post that isn't even by me, and I'm just supposed to not point it out at all instead of trying to see what you actually meant and trying to see where you're coming from

over-aggression and sarcastic misrepresentation of our claims.

Good to know you didn't actually read what I wrote. But... yea, keep rocking?

It actually makes the case for SAD as scum better than we could

Because me trying to defend myself and get you to try and explain some points totally makes me scum. Cool beans.

[BT]

SAD, quick tour of your current scumreads?

[DeasVail]

BT, I think the first part is ok, but I don't like the part about you and absta attacking Camn. I don't see why it was so important for me to comment on it?

Also, yes you said you'd like him to replace out in the first post, but the reason you provided was wagon analysis. Pretending that there is no reason to suspect you is something scum would do in an attempt to counter suspicion. I think town would be more apologetic for not saying what they actually meant.

Kise is kind of scummy, but considering that I also find you and SAD scummy, I am probably happy to pursue one of you today because of the claim.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

SAD, quick tour of your current scumreads?

CDB has been looking better(ish) recently. He can prob pull it off, but meh?

Still think kuribo is scum. That slot gone would actually be good regardless of if they actually flip town.

After realizing my townread on Nost was actually based on an bad reading on my part, I've been kinda just putting him there in the back of my mind without much of an opinion

Don't actually believe Kise's claim.

Deas just looks... bad? Not really scummy, just like... bad. And I have literally no idea where to go with him from here?

Is TML still in this game? I've had him as null for like... ever, and I don't actually remember anything off the top of my head that he has posted recently.

Jason is in the same boat as Deas, but to more extremes.

Umm, yea? Those aren't really SCUMREADS, but it's prob the best I have right now that I see have the poss to flip scum?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Actually Deas' recent(ish) posts have been making me cringe more, so I guess I can actually see him more as scum.

[Plessiezarus]

Because me trying to defend myself and get you to try and explain some points totally makes me scum. Cool beans.

I'm sorry you're not as good at being scum as you assumed you were.

Hey, why don't you insult me and strawman my case a bit more? It's bound to work eventually .

~ Pless

[BT]

BT, I think the first part is ok, but I don't like the part about you and absta attacking Camn. I don't see why it was so important for me to comment on it?

Also, yes you said you'd like him to replace out in the first post, but the reason you provided was wagon analysis. Pretending that there is no reason to suspect you is something scum would do in an attempt to counter suspicion. I think town would be more apologetic for not saying what they actually meant.

Kise is kind of scummy, but considering that I also find you and SAD scummy, I am probably happy to pursue one of you today because of the claim.

My point was that you didn't seem to mention it but you said you'd read me and then you decided you suspect me... it just comes off as really weird. It's like you didn't really care to read my slot / people's cases on my slot but found some things you disliked and eventually called it a scumread. Now that I'm saying this to myself it sounds like Objectively Bad (Not Necessarily Scummy) Play. Like at first I thought your weak reasons are a sign of you tacking on a popular scumread but they don't seem -fake- or something. I'll have to mull this over.

I'm not pretending, I'm pretty sure. When I told Kise to replace out / get active it pretty much implies I thought the slot needed activity (and that I preferred this over getting rid of the slot)... so it's exactly what I'm saying. I don't get your point here - I think you're being a bit too nitpicky.