NY 162: A Week at the Theatres (Game Over)

[wind-up]

<snip>

Ssh, I'm hunting the scums. Let's not kill the wagon before reactions can be tested first.

Oh fuck it. Since I have to bother to mention it in the first place it's ruined.

Dramonic wagon is shit and way too conveniently brought up in the nick of time to counter Zephers wagon which makes my reads on Konowa, Go & Wind Up go way into scum territory as they are purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation.

Especially Konowa being like one post "Hey let's slow down a bit and think about some things" and the second Go votes for Dramonic then Konowa just jumps right on the wagon with no explanation. Wind Up is the one that shocks me. But maybe people were right about him fake claiming PGO. None of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher. It's just a blatant counter wagon built to sew confusion and distrust, and it reaks of scum.

Spoiler: post #561 from Smashbard

So let's double check shall we?

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.


We have less than 48 hours until the end of day phase. Three of you four need to drop your case for the rest of the day phase and compromise, coming back at it tomorrow if you're still sure. Because at this point you're causing a divide that is making it literally impossible for us to focus on one wagon for the sake of getting a lynch through.

I'd say let's draw straws and agree on one of those 4 lynches, but honestly the Bacde wagon is really dumb and has been since the start of the Day.

Spoiler: my post #567

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

ActionDan's case on Nobody Special is bad. You read it and you think: okay, if NS is town, these quotes show that he is not being a very good townie. Then you think: wait, but does that mean NS is scum? And then you think: do these reasons ('bad vote' x2, 'laziness', 'irrelevance') sound like reasons scum would use in a case to fake scumhunting? And then you think: yes. ActionDan is probably scum with dramonic, look at his poor dismissal of the dramonic wagon:

I believe that Dram is a sub-optimal lynch. I don't think I'll support it.

(i.e. I don't want to lynch my buddy Day 1. I'm not going to vote for him.)

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

That's right, folks! dramonic has been effectively useless for most of the day, and occasionally he comes in and snipes at people because they're not being pro-town. No actual scumhunting or anything. Plus his own logic incriminates himself as I showed above. If you can't find a flaw in my logic, you should probably strongly consider voting dramonic.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

These are silly lynches. roflcopter's #272 and #274 show he's steeped in confirmation bias (misreading MrZepher's silly flavour as trying to start a flame war). Steer well clear of that one.

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #569

Now look at Wind-Up, that's how you convince a guy to switch a vote.

Unvote. Vote: Dramonic

Yay wagon hopping!

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #585

I dont usually get this... Hominemy in a game, but for fuck's sake, every post wind-up makes is a steaming pile of shit and it's getting ridiculous. Everyone who disagrees with this lynch is my buddy guys, better hop on before it's too late!

So far the extent of you calling everyone idiots and attacking them has been reserved for only people who suspect you of scumminess. Unfortunately for you this is a tactic both town and scum use. So it doesn't help you any to verbally assault anyone who dares to point a finger at you.

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #595

Damnit damnit damnit. We are less than 24 hours away from deadline. Fuck it, it looks like things are heading towards Greygarl so I'm going back to that. I'd rather lynch a guy I'm not 100% comfortable with than risk a no lynch.

Unvote. Vote: Greygnarl

In #561 you call the Bacde wagon but not the dramonic wagon shit.

In #569 you vote dramonic in response to my post #567.

In #585 you attack dramonic for behaving anti-town.

In #595 you compromise on a Greygnarl lynch, expressing disappointment and suggesting that dramonic had a greater chance of flipping scum.

You were clearly not reaction testing because there was

under 48 hours to deadline, and because you actually vote for and attack dramonic.

Your explanation that Konowa, Go, and myself are scum because we're 'purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation' is

not valid considering that's what happens in basically 100% of Mafia games.

Your statement that 'none of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher' is

clearly contradicted by your response in #569 to my post in #567

, and to a lesser degree by your attack on dramonic for being anti-town in #585.

Explain.

[Go]

I need to replace out for work/life reasons, good luck guys I know we can win this.

[KingdomAces]

Sorry, I've been putting this off for far too long. It takes forever for me to type up posts, so I just hadn't felt like actually starting one until the last possible moment.

Anyway, I'm most suspicious of ActionDan right now. All he's been doing is tunneling NS for reasons that can be described as "because he's NS." Simultaneously, he was white knighting all of the possible lynches near deadline yesterday while not giving any solid reasons for any of them, and then with 603 he made sure everyone knew that he opposed the eventual lynch. The only purpose I can see for that is attempting to gain cheap favor with the town, which could be done as either alignment but would be more useful as scum. If you combine that with the fact that he set it up so he could do that with whoever town ended up lynching, the scum motivation is a lot more apparent then why he would post that as town.

VOTE: ActionDan

As to what I think of NS, he hasn't done anything that is making me think one way or the other about him. Yeah, he changed his read on Zepher since the beginning of the day, but I don't see how that is a scumtell at all. While he is definitely not a townread right now, I don't think his scumminess so far has been great enough to warrant a tunnel above everyone else who is playing with a similar style to him right now.

My thoughts on JacobSavage haven't changed since yesterday. This would normally be the part where I say that he needs to post more for me to get a read on him, but I realize that I'm in no position to say that right now. The one new post of his of mention is 640, where before that his most recent post was promising reads, but instead all he's doing is making a useless remark that shows that he has the ability to post, but isn't doing anything with it.

I'm divided on MrZepher's claim that he would have killed Rofl instead of Trollie. Trollie would still be a better kill for the rest of MrZepher's hypothetical scumteam due to being more of a townread to most people than Rofl, while it would still preform a similar function for him. The fact that he's saying that makes me think that he hasn't discussed this with other people, which would mean that he isn't scum, but there is still the possibility that he is scum who actually argued for killing Rofl/someone other than those two and got outvoted, and is now trying to use the fact that he didn't get the kill he wanted as proof he's not scum. Right now I'm leaning slightly towards the former mostly because he seems to have the same stance on Jacob that I do.

I have yet to see anything actually substantial against Dramonic. The only person who actually tried was wind-up with 559, but I don't agree with that because I feel that if Dramonic was scum, he actually would prefer it if people were being anti-town, rather than just scolding them for this behavior while saying he doesn't have a scumread on them.

The fact that Wind-up and Smash are actually trying to use logic at all right now is giving me townreads on them, despite the fact that that means I disagree with most of what they are saying in the first place.

I think that's everything important for now. Once again, sorry and I'll try to stay more up to date in the future.

[Smashbard]

<snip>

Ssh, I'm hunting the scums. Let's not kill the wagon before reactions can be tested first.

Oh fuck it. Since I have to bother to mention it in the first place it's ruined.

Dramonic wagon is shit and way too conveniently brought up in the nick of time to counter Zephers wagon which makes my reads on Konowa, Go & Wind Up go way into scum territory as they are purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation.

Especially Konowa being like one post "Hey let's slow down a bit and think about some things" and the second Go votes for Dramonic then Konowa just jumps right on the wagon with no explanation. Wind Up is the one that shocks me. But maybe people were right about him fake claiming PGO. None of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher. It's just a blatant counter wagon built to sew confusion and distrust, and it reaks of scum.

Spoiler: post #561 from Smashbard

So let's double check shall we?

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.


We have less than 48 hours until the end of day phase. Three of you four need to drop your case for the rest of the day phase and compromise, coming back at it tomorrow if you're still sure. Because at this point you're causing a divide that is making it literally impossible for us to focus on one wagon for the sake of getting a lynch through.

I'd say let's draw straws and agree on one of those 4 lynches, but honestly the Bacde wagon is really dumb and has been since the start of the Day.

Spoiler: my post #567

ActionDan says Nobody Special is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

ActionDan's case on Nobody Special is bad. You read it and you think: okay, if NS is town, these quotes show that he is not being a very good townie. Then you think: wait, but does that mean NS is scum? And then you think: do these reasons ('bad vote' x2, 'laziness', 'irrelevance') sound like reasons scum would use in a case to fake scumhunting? And then you think: yes. ActionDan is probably scum with dramonic, look at his poor dismissal of the dramonic wagon:

I believe that Dram is a sub-optimal lynch. I don't think I'll support it.

(i.e. I don't want to lynch my buddy Day 1. I'm not going to vote for him.)

Wind Up says Dramonic is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

That's right, folks! dramonic has been effectively useless for most of the day, and occasionally he comes in and snipes at people because they're not being pro-town. No actual scumhunting or anything. Plus his own logic incriminates himself as I showed above. If you can't find a flaw in my logic, you should probably strongly consider voting dramonic.

Roflcopter says Mr. Zepher is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

Zoneace says Bacde is scum, guaranteed. He needs to be lynched today no matter what.

These are silly lynches. roflcopter's #272 and #274 show he's steeped in confirmation bias (misreading MrZepher's silly flavour as trying to start a flame war). Steer well clear of that one.

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #569

Now look at Wind-Up, that's how you convince a guy to switch a vote.

Unvote. Vote: Dramonic

Yay wagon hopping!

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #585

I dont usually get this... Hominemy in a game, but for fuck's sake, every post wind-up makes is a steaming pile of shit and it's getting ridiculous. Everyone who disagrees with this lynch is my buddy guys, better hop on before it's too late!

So far the extent of you calling everyone idiots and attacking them has been reserved for only people who suspect you of scumminess. Unfortunately for you this is a tactic both town and scum use. So it doesn't help you any to verbally assault anyone who dares to point a finger at you.

Spoiler: Smashbard's post #595

Damnit damnit damnit. We are less than 24 hours away from deadline. Fuck it, it looks like things are heading towards Greygarl so I'm going back to that. I'd rather lynch a guy I'm not 100% comfortable with than risk a no lynch.

Unvote. Vote: Greygnarl

In #561 you call the Bacde wagon but not the dramonic wagon shit.

In #569 you vote dramonic in response to my post #567.

In #585 you attack dramonic for behaving anti-town.

In #595 you compromise on a Greygnarl lynch, expressing disappointment and suggesting that dramonic had a greater chance of flipping scum.

You were clearly not reaction testing because there was

under 48 hours to deadline, and because you actually vote for and attack dramonic.

Your explanation that Konowa, Go, and myself are scum because we're 'purposefully driving the town into another "Hurr Durr, there's two big wagons what do you we do?!" situation' is

not valid considering that's what happens in basically 100% of Mafia games.

Your statement that 'none of them are even trying to present an idea as to why Dramonic is better than Zepher' is

clearly contradicted by your response in #569 to my post in #567

, and to a lesser degree by your attack on dramonic for being anti-town in #585.

Explain.

I was not reaction testing you on Day 1. I had town reads on you at that time. I was trying to reaction test you today because I wanted to see what you would of done with me blatantly buddying you, Go and Konowa while not actually moving over to the Dramonic wagon. Seeing whether or not you were going to try to jump my bones for "fence sitting" or if you would of just ignored me because I called you town.

Jumping my bones would of developed a town read from you because town shouldn't be so quick to accept other people calling them town without supporting evidence, which would of also gotten you guys off the crappy ass Dram Wagon since he's done nothing worse than Mr. Zepher to warrant a lynch. A win-win in my book.

But ignoring me would of further solidified my scum reads on you for getting on the Dram Wagon in the first place because you would of been playing it safe and not bother to question why I thought you were town without joining your wagon.

I had to break the reaction test because if the Dram wagon was broken down from other players arguments too quickly I wouldn't of had a chance to solidify my read on you, Konowa and Go. Because your votes would of been swayed by peer pressure more than your reactions to my statements. Hence, reaction testing.

[Nobody Special]

I wonder if ActionDan is a lyncher with me as his lynchee.

[Smashbard]

Lynchers and Lynchees are strictly non-normal. Thus probably would not be allowed in this set up.

[roflcopter]

i could be swayed to an actiondan wagon

[Smashbard]

If it comes to considering an ActionDan lynch, I would rather lynch Nobody Special and then lynch ActionDan if he's wrong about NS so that there is actually a reason to lynch Dan beyond "He's tunneling a player".

[roflcopter]

If it comes to considering an ActionDan lynch, I would rather lynch Nobody Special and then lynch ActionDan if he's wrong about NS so that there is actually a reason to lynch Dan beyond "He's tunneling a player".

now i would like to lynch you

unvote, vote: smashbard

[roflcopter]

^for that lazy, lazy misrep of the case previously laid out on action dan, and for lining up mislynches

[roflcopter]

ftr i still advocate zepher death, this is one of those cases where i'm really wishing we could lynch two people

[Nobody Special]

Lynchers and Lynchees are strictly non-normal. Thus probably would not be allowed in this set up.

You are right, and I am wrong (but I had to look it up).

Carry on.


However, I think AD's tunneling is bad.

unvote

Vote: ActionDan

[roflcopter]

ns vote smashbard with me

[Smashbard]

^for that lazy, lazy misrep of the case previously laid out on action dan, and for lining up mislynches

The only way I could be lining up mislynches is if I was aware of how people would flip. You seem pretty jumpy at the idea of me wanting to lynch Nobody Special and then Action Dan if NS flips wrong.

Do you know that either of those guys would flip town? Because that's the only way you could know that either lynch would be a mislynch.

[roflcopter]

^for that lazy, lazy misrep of the case previously laid out on action dan, and for lining up mislynches

The only way I could be lining up mislynches is if I was aware of how people would flip. You seem pretty jumpy at the idea of me wanting to lynch Nobody Special and then Action Dan if NS flips wrong.

Do you know that either of those guys would flip town? Because that's the only way you could know that either lynch would be a mislynch.

hint: you're aware of how they will flip if you are scum

[Smashbard]

Also while I'm at it, please tell me where this Actiondan case is. As far as I know he's been virtually ignored all game as "That crazy guy who wants Nobody Special lynched and nobody else".

So as far as I know, the only case IS that ActionDan is tunneling Nobody Special. If you've got something else, point it out. Because I never remember ActionDan even being on the chopping block.


PEDIT: That's my point. The only way you could know that lynching Nobody Special first and then ActionDan if NS flips town would be a bad idea/setting up mislynches is if you KNOW Nobody Special would flip town.

Only scum should know Nobody Specials alignment. See what I'm driving at here? You're in deep shit if you can't explain yourself, Rofl.

[Smashbard]

Also while I'm at it, please tell me where this Actiondan case is. As far as I know he's been virtually ignored all game as "That crazy guy who wants Nobody Special lynched and nobody else".

So as far as I know, the only case IS that ActionDan is tunneling Nobody Special. If you've got something else, point it out. Because I never remember ActionDan even being on the chopping block.


PEDIT: That's my point. The only way you could know that lynching Nobody Special first and then ActionDan if NS flips town would be a bad idea/setting up mislynches is if you KNOW Nobody Special would flip town.

Only scum should know Nobody Specials alignment. See what I'm driving at here? You're in deep shit if you can't explain yourself, Rofl.

[Konowa]

It took me long enough, but I'm finally coming around to roflTown. I'm probably going to switch to Smash, but a proper reread is in order first.

[Smashbard]

lol. You guys are making this really hard on me.

I can't possibly believe that Go, Konowa, Wind Up, Nobody Special. Roflcopter and Mr. Zepher are all scum. Maybe 3 or 4 out of 6, but two of you are just being misguided. Show of hands on which of you wants to admit to being the miguided town rather than obvscum?

I'll wait.

[Nobody Special]

rofl: Do you think I'm town? If so, why?

[Smashbard]

rofl: Do you think I'm town? If so, why?

If it makes your vote any easier, I think you're scum. I'm just giving you a pass because you don't really have as many partner connections I can draw on as easily as my other 5 suspects.

[Konowa]

Actually the change between 637 and 643 with the accusatory language of considering only me!scum while not trying to figure out my intent or motivation is pretty bad. I'm actually having a hard time figuring out if you are bad Town or Scum, Smash.

rofl is right though, lining up mislynches is pretty scummy. Saying that I'll lynch X and then Y independent of each others alignment is not Town. Then the only reason I see for a scum read on a number of the people you listed is because they are anti-your-views. Sadly, this is not indicative of alignment. The "Teollie was killed so he wouldn't be able to stop a Dramonic push" is awful.

dramonic's D1 was pretty self-serving and safe to me. His early D2 play hasn't screamed Town either. I'm happy with my vote for now. I'll have to go back and see what is what in this mess.

[JacobSavage]

Town
Human Destroyer
roflcopter

Null-Town
Konowa
ActionDan
ZONEACE
Dramonic

Null
Go
Nobody Special
KingdomAces
Smashbard

Null-Scum
wind-up
Bacde
PeregrineV

Scum
MrZepher
petapan

[Bacde]

^^

[Smashbard]

Actually the change between 637 and 643 with the accusatory language of considering only me!scum while not trying to figure out my intent or motivation is pretty bad. I'm actually having a hard time figuring out if you are bad Town or Scum, Smash.

rofl is right though, lining up mislynches is pretty scummy. Saying that I'll lynch X and then Y independent of each others alignment is not Town. Then the only reason I see for a scum read on a number of the people you listed is because they are anti-your-views. Sadly, this is not indicative of alignment. The "Teollie was killed so he wouldn't be able to stop a Dramonic push" is awful.

dramonic's D1 was pretty self-serving and safe to me. His early D2 play hasn't screamed Town either. I'm happy with my vote for now. I'll have to go back and see what is what in this mess.

Once again, the only way you can say I'm setting up mislynches is if you know Nobody Specials alignment. Even then, saying that I want to lynch them both independently of one another is a blatant misrep. Because any chance of me wanting to lynch ActionDan is completely DEPENDENT on Nobody Specials alignment.

Same way I confirmed Zoneace in my mind through Greygnarls flip. My logic is consistent with my play. Call me bad town all you want. I know what I'm trying to do here.