Mini 1426 - Hell's Bottom

[Mr. Flay]

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

VOTE: Keybladewielder - get in the game, then. Playing multiple games is no excuse not to, you know, play multiple games. Also your attitude sucks, as personal attacks are extremely unlikely to remove votes from you.

Blue Yoshi: I disagree about your ability to direct or stir up anything with those posts. *shrug*

[YOLO]

Blue Yoshi: I have no scumreads as of now, because it is the first few pages. I will give you them when people post more assuming I don't get grounded again.

My scumreads:

Yoshi (what bub said earlier)
Arc (always seems scummy imo)
YOLO (earthbound over KH? idiot. also, bad read on Jeromus' comment.)
Rainbowdash (ehhh.... most town of all. Null for now)

we should lynch one of these today.

You go from zero to four scumreads in a single page... Not to mention Yoshi and Arc didn't even post in between those two posts. It doesn't make sense but almost all of your posts are non sequitur to me.

If it bugs you that much you are free to replace out since you are apparently overburdened already though.

This is actually a great idea. Replacing out because you can't find the time to focus on all your games properly is one of the few 'legit' reasons to leave a game. It's much better than posting the one illogical mess after another (no offense).

I agree with Bub, Keybladewielder exudes VI-ness. Yoshi, you say it looks like KBW already cracked from pressure. I'm not seeing much pressure really. I see one vote (two now with Mr. Flay's vote) and some questions. What kind of pressure do you see?

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

VOTE: Keybladewielder - get in the game, then. Playing multiple games is no excuse not to, you know, play multiple games. Also your attitude sucks, as personal attacks are extremely unlikely to remove votes from you.

Blue Yoshi: I disagree about your ability to direct or stir up anything with those posts. *shrug*

Are you voting KBW because you think he's scum or because you think he's a bad player? I don't see any reasoning for why KBW might be scum in your post so I'd like you to explain your vote.

Talking about explaining votes, Elyse also has some explaining to do. What exactly have you been waiting for, Elyse?

[Desperado]

Why dont you have problems with the other random votes?

Because none of the other random votes are on him. That was a pretty silly question.

Not to beat a deadhorse but I just don't understand these two posts from Elyse in conjunction with one another:

@MrFlay
I was just curious, that's all.

UNVOTE: Bomb
VOTE: Keybladewielder
This:

Vote KBW

Inconsequental question is inconsequental.

BB can be town for now.

VOTE: Rainbowdash

Why did you vote me? You don't know anything about me.

I hadn't even posted anything yet.

is a terrible vote. He is already showing how desperate he is to get votes off him, and it's a freaking RVS vote. Seems like he's nervous scum to me.

If you have a problem with policy-style lynches and that's what you were referring to given YOLO's response then I understand, because at this point that's the only justification for a KBW lynch. Frankly, I'm suspicious of anyone that's voting him right now (oh hey look Flay just voted him with flimsy/policy laden language. This is my surprised face ). What I don't get is the first vote on KBW. How do you explain that?

Rainbow and Yoshi and Bub are all town until further notice, as well

I'm going to give town points to Desperado for this. I don't want to lock in reads too early, but taking so many potential suspects out of the lynch-pool so early doesn't seem to jive with a scum motivation.

Flay, i don't really understand your explanation on not doing RVS becuz youclearly seem to be fine with attacking people but not RVS, how does you attack can pressurize a person with out voting them? if you want some one to talk..you put pressure them with your vote, no body is going to slip or talk without actual pressure.

And not being in the site for long time doesn't make you a different player. that looks like an apparent excuse...

This post is so weak. No real follow up or vote for flay.

Keyblade is giving me a VI vibe.

I understand your hesitation not to lock in reads but I find that's it a lot easier to townread someone first and change as they exhibit more scum behavior than it is to go the opposite direction. In other words, if you get a scumread early it's going to be difficult for that to ever change, and I honestly think it gets worse the longer the game goes on. All three of you approached the early game in a townie way, so until you do something to change that, you're town.

As for the bolded, pretty much. Which is why we shouldn't really even be considering voting KBW today. Policy lynching is not a successful strategy.

I like Bub and Rainbow for town so far. Well thought through post by Bub, to the point. Rainbow seems to be the most active poster we're going to have this game.
Mr Flay is pretty town too in my opinion since he's pretty in game focused and trying to sift through any of the unrelated stuff like Rainbow has been too.

Elyse, was the vote against YOLO because you were waiting for someone to target a person with a VI read? You weren't overly specific there and seemed to get a lot more than I did out of two words, could you explain it?

I don't think Bub and Rainbow and Flay are playing similarly at all, can you expound on this?

[Keybladewielder]

@flay - so your voting me because I'm not posting that much.
That's not town oriented play.
Scummy play on Flay.

[Keybladewielder]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mr. Flay

[Bomb]

I like Bub and Rainbow for town so far. Well thought through post by Bub, to the point. Rainbow seems to be the most active poster we're going to have this game.
Mr Flay is pretty town too in my opinion since he's pretty in game focused and trying to sift through any of the unrelated stuff like Rainbow has been too.

Elyse, was the vote against YOLO because you were waiting for someone to target a person with a VI read? You weren't overly specific there and seemed to get a lot more than I did out of two words, could you explain it?

I don't think Bub and Rainbow and Flay are playing similarly at all, can you expound on this?

Sorry, I was stating that Flay and Rainbow have both been trying to sift through all the non-game chatter and irrelevant posts to actually scum hunt that is about where the similarity ends.

I just liked bub's posts so far as town posts. Concise, to the point, no fluff, and looks like he has been trying to pick the town players as much as picking the scum players. my perspective is scum don't bother to take the time to try and get town reads because they already know so it will be aggressive scum hunting from them mostly.

[jeromus]

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

VOTE: Keybladewielder - get in the game, then. Playing multiple games is no excuse not to, you know, play multiple games. Also your attitude sucks, as personal attacks are extremely unlikely to remove votes from you.

Blue Yoshi: I disagree about your ability to direct or stir up anything with those posts. *shrug*

STAHP.

You're giving reasons for why you might not like him, but not reasons for actually voting him. Jumping on the easy target is NOT making you look too good, Flay.

[Elyse]

I voted for YOLO for rolefishing. What is the town motivation in pointing that out? None.

But Rainbow said that commenting on things like that was sadly something town does more often than scum. That is something experience will tell you, something I don't have much of on this site. But, it is possible that Rainbow is just trying to sweep it under the rug to take away suspicion on his scumbuddy YOLO. Probable? No. Possible? Yes.

@Desperado
I already explained my initial vote on KBW. His initial vote on Rainbow made him seem desperate to get votes off of him. It was before I realized he was an idiot. What else do you want me to explain?

[Desperado]

Well it didn't make any sense for you to vote KBW yourself, and then vote someone for also expressing suspicion on him. My assumption was that you were faking your FOS on KBW in order to coax scum into sheeping you (which you might have done anyway).

Your actual explanation is disappointing. How on earth was he rolefishing? KBW claimed VT on his own. Regardless of your level of experience re: how townies and scum react to a roleclaim, what YOLO did wasn't fishing. That's why I was confused.

[Keybladewielder]

I voted for YOLO for rolefishing. What is the town motivation in pointing that out? None.

But Rainbow said that commenting on things like that was sadly something town does more often than scum. That is something experience will tell you, something I don't have much of on this site. But, it is possible that Rainbow is just trying to sweep it under the rug to take away suspicion on his scumbuddy YOLO. Probable? No. Possible? Yes.

@Desperado
I already explained my initial vote on KBW. His initial vote on Rainbow made him seem desperate to get votes off of him. It was before I realized he was an idiot. What else do you want me to explain?

Your mean. I am not an idiot.

[Desperado]

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

VOTE: Keybladewielder - get in the game, then. Playing multiple games is no excuse not to, you know, play multiple games. Also your attitude sucks, as personal attacks are extremely unlikely to remove votes from you.

Blue Yoshi: I disagree about your ability to direct or stir up anything with those posts. *shrug*

STAHP.

You're giving reasons for why you might not like him, but not reasons for actually voting him. Jumping on the easy target is NOT making you look too good, Flay.

Hey, can you stop coaching? Especially without actually voting anyone? This is the second time you've blatantly told someone that they are being scummy and what to do to fix it. All you're doing is giving potential scum an opportunity to correct the behavior that will get them lynched. Either go be a veteran in a newbie game or wait until the end of the game.

[Elyse]

Well it didn't make any sense for you to vote KBW yourself, and then vote someone for also expressing suspicion on him. My assumption was that you were faking your FOS on KBW in order to coax scum into sheeping you (which you might have done anyway).

Your actual explanation is disappointing. How on earth was he rolefishing? KBW claimed VT on his own. Regardless of your level of experience re: how townies and scum react to a roleclaim, what YOLO did wasn't fishing. That's why I was confused.

No one brought attention to it except for YOLO. Early VT claims don't exactly help the town, and although most people probably saw that, quoting it and saying "What?" is rolefishing. He wants KBW to confirm his claim.

And I voted KBW for his terrible vote. How does that not make sense?

[jeromus]

and btw, I'm playing another game too Toadette. my brain isn't fully on this one.

VOTE: Keybladewielder - get in the game, then. Playing multiple games is no excuse not to, you know, play multiple games. Also your attitude sucks, as personal attacks are extremely unlikely to remove votes from you.

Blue Yoshi: I disagree about your ability to direct or stir up anything with those posts. *shrug*

STAHP.

You're giving reasons for why you might not like him, but not reasons for actually voting him. Jumping on the easy target is NOT making you look too good, Flay.

Hey, can you stop coaching? Especially without actually voting anyone? This is the second time you've blatantly told someone that they are being scummy and what to do to fix it. All you're doing is giving potential scum an opportunity to correct the behavior that will get them lynched. Either go be a veteran in a newbie game or wait until the end of the game.

I'm actually just trying to get everyone to stop looking at the goddamned VI. You're voting him for reasons unrelated to play. Stahp.

[Desperado]

We don't seem to be communicating with one another very well. I didn't say that your vote on KBW didn't make sense, I said it didn't make sense

in conjunction with

your vote on YOLO. And they still don't, because your argument basically boils down to "He's scum for pointing out what every other player had already seen," which you've already conceded as untenable. So why are you still voting YOLO?

[Elyse]

I was going to unvote KBW, but I didn't (either didn't post in between or just forgot), and then voted YOLO. I don't think KBW is scum. So if it makes it easier to understand, pretend I unvoted KBW before I voted YOLO.

And my argument is that he rolefished. Period. I don't care if it is probable that everyone else saw it; no one else drew attention to it. Is it the strongest case in the world and do I think YOLO is 100% scum? No, but I don't have any other real scumreads right now.

Jeromus' lack of real stances and contentless posting is starting to become more scummy to me, though.

[Desperado]

So what, we have a competition for who can actually be the village idiot? Is it Flay or is it KBW?

Several people have independently suspected Flay based on legitimate arguments. Bubs in #6, myself in #24, Angel in #44, YOLO in #76, KBW in #78, and yourself in #81. That's half the participants all calling YOLO out for scummy play within the first 90 posts. At what point does he go from potential VI to plain-old scum?

[Keybladewielder]

I swear I am not the village idiot.

In fact I doubt said role is even in this game.

[Mr. Flay]

Are you voting KBW because you think he's scum or because you think he's a bad player?

Both. If he comes around and starts contributing in a non-scummy/non-harmful-to-town way, great, I'll unvote. Until then, I don't see you making a better case for D1 lynch.

Which is why we shouldn't really even be considering voting KBW today.

When

do

we lynch the Village Idiots, then? Scum aren't going to kill them. "Asking" them to replace out isn't a good plan. What is your plan for dealing with them?

So what, we have a competition for who can actually be the village idiot? Is it Flay or is it KBW?

Several people have independently suspected Flay based on legitimate arguments. Bubs in #6, myself in #24, Angel in #44, YOLO in #76, KBW in #78, and yourself in #81. That's half the participants all calling YOLO out for scummy play within the first 90 posts. At what point does he go from potential VI to plain-old scum?

Are you seriously...what? That doesn't even make sense. Is that supposed to say "That's half the participants all calling Flay out"?

Read my posts again. Then try to see where I'm actually going with this, rather than just attacking the guy who doesn't do what you expect.

[jeromus]

I forget, how is Meta looked on in this site? Would be nice to see how KBW plays in other games to see how consistent this is.

[Rainbowdash]

I swear I am not the village idiot.

In fact I doubt said role is even in this game.

Im starting to think we are being trolled. Either this or we are playing with somepony who only reads the post directly ahead of theirs or something.

Best way to deal with VI players is look at motivation behind their moves, depending on the type it can be very easy or difficult to do and work in certain ways. Umbrage (caustic VI) is one of the easiest players to read as scum on the site but are hard to read as town (lest lack of scum read), while more raw newbies are easier to read as town than as scum.

KBW seems to at least be reacting to things in such a way that I can see a thought process and genuine confusion to things. Emotion (yeah yeah coming from me) is not that easy to efficiently fake, especially emotion that takes a shot at making you seem competent. While I think he is wrong and should try doing things a new way, listen to others and base opinions off that, replace out because he is overburneded, etc... im actually thinking KBW is more likely going to be town than scum.

@Elyse - YOLO is actually not super townie, but the fishing tell in that way is somewhat of a town tell. If its obvious what is going on, scum usually will just log that one away while town is more likely to say something blatantly derpy about it. There are more sly ways to fish that are scummy but when KBW says "I am a VT" thats basically something scum would keep hooves off of. His ignoring of everything at first (like jeromus) is scummy but I do somewhat like his last post. Probably is in a null-town group for me.

@jeromus - WHat is your read on KBW?

[jeromus]

I wish I could have a clear one, is my read. I have had too many VTs lynched D1 because of crap like KBW's, so I'm so reluctant to lynch him.

That being said, faking VI could work in his favour, which is why when work is over I may well check some of Keyblade's other games.

[Desperado]

Flay of course that's what I meant. Your last bit seems to intimate that there is some broader plan to your blatantly scummy behavior. Well, I'm all ears.

[Rainbowdash]

I wish I could have a clear one, is my read. I have had too many VTs lynched D1 because of crap like KBW's, so I'm so reluctant to lynch him.

That being said, faking VI could work in his favour, which is why when work is over I may well check some of Keyblade's other games.

Well you are obviously kinda defending him (and subtly attacking Flay but no vote) so why are you falling back on "well lets see his meta" then?

Ive been around enough to see his type. Weaker player, seems to take offense to being called it and plays a very reactionary game. Usually will make themselves sorta known if they are town but arent easy to pick as scum.

Anyways, if you are interested in meta KBW is the wrong pony to be poking at.

[Elyse]

@Desperado
Who is post 90 directed to?

UNVOTE: YOLO (I'm taking Rainbow's word for now)
VOTE: jeromus

I'm sick of him repeating things other people say and not doing anything that even seems remotely like scumhunting.

[jeromus]

I wish I could have a clear one, is my read. I have had too many VTs lynched D1 because of crap like KBW's, so I'm so reluctant to lynch him.

That being said, faking VI could work in his favour, which is why when work is over I may well check some of Keyblade's other games.

Well you are obviously kinda defending him (and subtly attacking Flay but no vote) so why are you falling back on "well lets see his meta" then?

Ive been around enough to see his type. Weaker player, seems to take offense to being called it and plays a very reactionary game. Usually will make themselves sorta known if they are town but arent easy to pick as scum.

Anyways, if you are interested in meta KBW is the wrong pony to be poking at.

Was never intending to defend him, just trying to make it clear that a lynch on him would be dumb based just on what has happened so far.

I'm still yet to get answers to any of the questions in my first proper post, any chance of getting some, Elyse/Rainbowdash?