/Invitational 13: The battle of Yarmouk. Decisive victory!

[chamber]

He answered my questions in such a way as to maintain the status quo, thus requiring no further action.

I didn't take action to stop your lynch for 2 reasons, the first is that despite not finding you particularly scummy, I also wasn't unhappy with you getting lynched. My mix of respect for you as a person, but complete disrespect for how you've been playing this game is making it incredibly difficult for me to have a read on you that I'm confident in, and I don't foresee that changing. You having a scum read on me is also likely to be an inconvenience at some point the longer we both live. The 2nd is that I believe when in a group of competent players, it takes an insane amount of hubris to think that any individual can scumhunt better than the collective. I will take stands in weaker groups of players relative to myself, or when I feel extraordinarily strong about a town read, neither of those things are true here.

I will note that I did still question suspicion towards you that seemed disingenuous.

[mykonian]

Vahan's plan was to put pressure on the muslim wings, while threatening to attack the muslims center. This would make that the center could not help out it's wings, while if the wings were to be pushed back, the center of the muslim line would get isolated.

votecount

Kublai Kahn (2): chamber, deathrowkitty
mith (2): KittyMo, katsuki
chamber (1): mith
KittyMo (1): Fishythefish

not voting (2): Kublai Kahn, Rhinox

[chamber]

Have I stifled this game? I worry that I have.

[Fishythefish]

I want to have an opinion on chamber/mith, but I just can't muster one up. It looks more like a clash of playstyles than something correlated with alignment.

I'm tempted to move my vote because of the lack of company, but I don't think that's a good idea. The complete lack of interest in my wagon makes me think I'm actually more likely to be on to something.

@Everyone who hasn't answered this recently: what do you think of Kitty?

[chamber]

Kitty is my strongest town read.

It is a clash of styles more than anything else.

[mith]

I'm pretty satisfied with chamber's posting in our recent exchange. Totally disagree with him on a lot of things (for example, I will never trust the collective over my own personal read, if only because the collective includes scum with a different agenda), but I'm coming around to the idea that he does believe what he's saying. And post 177 seems like something scum would be less likely to ask. (FWIW, I don't think you/we are stifling the game here at all - people just aren't posting, and haven't been for some time.)

UNVOTE: chamber
VOTE: Katsuki

[Kublai Khan]

@chamber - Why are you voting for me?

Also, 6 out your first 10 posts are (mostly) bland open-ended busywork questions with no follow-up. Where's the analysis from any of that?

I'm not a fan of the mith wagon. A lot of what people are calling him scummy for just looks like playstyle differences. I feel like mith is some sort of y2k time traveler who doesn't realize he's in

the future

.

Why do you feel the need to make excuses for mith?

I don't know, why do you call it "excuses"...? When the wagon reached L-1, I gave my opinion of the case on mith.

I call it an excuse because the last sentence makes it look like your trying to diffuse a lynch instead of just weighing in on it. You aren't saying mith is town, you're not really pushing a case on how you'd rather lynch someone else, you're just against a mith-lynch in a very neutral fashion.

It's very weird.

Did/do you actually think that scum don't have daytalk during a nightless game?

I don't know. I don't think I've ever even read a nightless game that wasn't a marathon game. From what chamber said, I guess they do.

You thought that scum would have no communication at all?

(P.S. - I think your scumread on me is heavily trumped up)

What exactly do you mean by "trumped up"?

It doesn't feel like you read what I wrote and thought I seemed guilty. It feels like you decided you wanted to read me as guilty then ISO'd me to justify it.

@Everyone who hasn't answered this recently: what do you think of Kitty?

Slight town read. There's some waffling on the issue of hammering, but gut is telling me it's from town.

Would also like a response from KK on his line of questioning in #117, but my gut is leaning toward "misguided line of questioning from a townie who genuinely thought he was on to something".

It's feeling misguided right now, actually. I'm pretty sure I just over-read into a situation.

Scum to town reads:

Panzerjager
DeathRowKitty
chamber
mith
KittyMo
Rhinox
Katsuki
Fishythefish

[DeathRowKitty]

I call it an excuse because the last sentence makes it look like your trying to diffuse a lynch instead of just weighing in on it. You aren't saying mith is town, you're not really pushing a case on how you'd rather lynch someone else, you're just against a mith-lynch in a very neutral fashion.

It's very weird.

I dun' get you. You're saying I was trying to diffuse a lynch by not saying its target is town and not pushing a case on someone else? When you view it that way, yeah, it seems very weird.

You thought that scum would have no communication at all?

It doesn't seem implausible at all in my mind. Scum get night talk in normal games and mostly just discuss who they're killing. Do scum need communication to function during the day? Considering you're the second person to tell me (or heavily imply, in your case) that scum do get daytalk in nightless games, clearly I was wrong.

What answer were you expecting out of that question that would have been useful?

It doesn't feel like you read what I wrote and thought I seemed guilty. It feels like you decided you wanted to read me as guilty then ISO'd me to justify it.

Here's where I initially said that I found you scummy. Tell me why at that point in the game I would decide I "wanted to read [you] as guilty" and why I would include an offer to give reasoning if I didn't actually have a reason.



But enough about me KK, you're more interesting. Would you agree that this was the culmination of your questioning of mith? How much of what you said in that post would you say actually required questioning to conclude?

[Fishythefish]

@KK: you listed panzer on your latest list of reads, despite him being dead. Obviously this was a mistake, but can you explain how it came about?

[Rhinox]

I'll get caught back up this evening.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: you listed panzer on your latest list of reads, despite him being dead. Obviously this was a mistake, but can you explain how it came about?

My bad. Since the game is only 8 pages, I iso-read everyone to see if my reads still held up or if there might be any questions/comment I missed. I didn't iso the mod.

I'll adjust my reads after I get off work.

It doesn't seem implausible at all in my mind. Scum get night talk in normal games and mostly just discuss who they're killing. Do scum need communication to function during the day? Considering you're the second person to tell me (or heavily imply, in your case) that scum do get daytalk in nightless games, clearly I was wrong.

What answer were you expecting out of that question that would have been useful?

You've been here since 2009 and the only thing you've ever used night-talk is to discuss who to kill?

I'm pursuing this line of questioning because in post 103 you suggest that I'm scum because I'm "coaching" Panzerjager. I'm observing that you're doing something that I call "spaghetti-ing". You're throwing all sorts of bullshit to the wall and looking for something to stick.

Here's where I initially said that I found you scummy. Tell me why at that point in the game I would decide I "wanted to read [you] as guilty" and why I would include an offer to give reasoning if I didn't actually have a reason.

But you didn't have a reason. You had a gut feeling. You didn't try to follow up that gut feeling by asking me any questions, you just starting making misinterpretations to justify a desire to lynch. That is scummy behavior.

VOTE: DeathRowKitty

But enough about me KK, you're more interesting. Would you agree that this was the culmination of your questioning of mith? How much of what you said in that post would you say actually required questioning to conclude?

Yes. I don't know.

[DeathRowKitty]

You...didn't actually correctly read anything I wrote.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually you read the last quote right. My mistake.

But I don't understand your response to it. Do you not know how much of what you typed in that post you'd concluded before questioning mith? Because that doesn't make sense.

[chamber]

Also, 6 out your first 10 posts are (mostly) bland open-ended busywork questions with no follow-up. Where's the analysis from any of that?

I only need to follow up if I can catch someone in bad answers(and can prove it), or if there answer sufficiently changes my perspective of their alignment.

[Kublai Khan]

You...didn't actually correctly read anything I wrote.

Then re-state with clarity.

Do you not know how much of what you typed in that post you'd concluded before questioning mith? Because that doesn't make sense.

I had a suspicion and his answers helped shape whether he fit that suspicion.

[mith]

Went to doctor yesterday, and the meds I'm taking are kicking my butt right now. I'll try to make sense of this KK/DRK argument when my head clears.

(Also, I am having a hard time thinking about anything in this game outside of the desire to argue with chamber about his playstyle, and I think that would be counterproductive at this point.)

[DeathRowKitty]

You...didn't actually correctly read anything I wrote.

Then re-state with clarity.

At the risk of sounding rude - figure it out yourself. Yes, I have a reason for not wanting to spoon-feed it to you.

[DeathRowKitty]

I had a suspicion and his answers helped shape whether he fit that suspicion.

See, I don't get that impression at all. The impression I get is much much much more along the lines of:
KK: "Hey mith, []?"
mith: "Um...okay"
KK: "OH, SO [[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]!!!!!!!!!"
mith: "...huh?"
KK: "Okay good, I was right. The combination of these reasons is why you're at the top of my scum-reads."

[Fishythefish]

This is a just a "promise activity to spur myself on" post.

Struggling with this game right now. I need to stand back and have a good read and think - this will get done today or tomorrow.

[Rhinox]

vote kitty mo

I can't make anything out of mith/chamber, or KK/DRK just yet. I feel good about fishy and his vote lines up with my suspicions and I really should have a vote down now.

this isn't my "catch up", i owe the game more than this. Just trying to do something in the meantime. I was lazy with this game this weekend, and then I started a new position at work this week where I don't have constant computer access anymore so I haven't been online much at all really. Been kinda stressed by the change actually but I'll try to get and stay more active.

[mith]

I would vote for Kitty over KK at this point. Very happy with my vote on Katsuki though, after rereading the last couple pages.

[KittyMo]

mykonian prodded me even though I'm still technically LA...recovery is not going very well. Still on serious drugs and it still feels a lot like I have been hit by a bus. I will try to formulate a post (since a couple of people seem to be stalled by waiting for more info from me) but I won't comment on everything.

For that matter, he would rather have lynched me than Panzer

but didn't mention that while saying he was ready to hammer Panzer on page 2

? Seriously? That sounds genuine to you?

Yes, that lines up with what he's said in the thread throughout the game, and yes, that sounds to me like something Kats- town would say.

this feels an awful lot like Kitty speaking for scumbuddy Katsuki.

Why scumbuddy specifically?

mith-chamber exchange doesn't make either of them look any worse, but I disagree with most of what mith said... The explanation chamber gives in #20 doesn't seem theoretical - sure, it's kinda vague - but how I read it, chamber phrased it with the "cans" to show that it was logically sound for both of those to happen and that they were both true for him, not as a way of presenting all possibilities like mith interpreted it. I thought the thing about panzer-questions was interesting and I read back and thought about it, but it feels like it stems from playstyle more than being a real tell.

[Katsuki]

Sorry been busy, will catch up tonight hopefully (if not tmr).

[Kublai Khan]

I'm waiting for those promising to catch-up to actually catch-up. I'll never convince DeathRowKitty that he's scum and I can't lynch him by myself.

[Rhinox]

I'm waiting for those promising to catch-up to actually catch-up. I'll never convince DeathRowKitty that he's scum and I can't lynch him by myself.

I was kinda hoping DRK was going to get to the point regarding #191. I would be ok with a DRK lynch, just waiting to see if and how this affects any of my reads.

KK, how would you feel about a kittymo lynch today?