/Invitational 13: The battle of Yarmouk. Decisive victory!

[chamber]

More KK votes.

[Kublai Khan]

So now let me ask you again, do you dispute my summary here. And if not, what in the name of tadpoles did you mean?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You're disputing that it's not possible since you aren't that good at mafia. So glad we could re-summarize the last ten minutes.

Is this part of your campaign to prove that you're an idiot?

[DeathRowKitty]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Thank you for your time.

[chamber]

So now let me ask you again, do you dispute my summary here. And if not, what in the name of tadpoles did you mean?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You're disputing that it's not possible since you aren't that good at mafia. So glad we could re-summarize the last ten minutes.

Is this part of your campaign to prove that you're an idiot?

Someone being capable of doing something isn't a motive to do that something.

[mykonian]

However, on the left wing the situation was more desperate. Yazid could not break through Gregory's defensive formations with his cavalry.

votecount

KittyMo (4): Fishythefish, Rhinox, Kublai Kahn, mith
Kublai Kahn (2): chamber, deathrowkitty
mith (2): KittyMo, katsuki

not voting (0):

[KittyMo]

Umm...so I was just logging in to request replacement (feel

really

bad doing that in a /in-vitational especially but I seriously can't post enough or well enough to stay in at this point...I didn't think it would turn out like this...) and apparently I'm at L-1 and deadline is in 3 days. I feel even worse now and I hope you guys get a deadline extension or something. I'm really sorry. Have a good game.

[Katsuki]

I know how you feel... it's pretty much how I feel at this point. T^T

I still want to say that I'm not wrong on mith and obviously lynching him is hard, but how last day went obviously has me doubting myself. Also means obviously that there are other good players as scum this game which is all blah.

Chamber you don't seem to be as engaged with this game. Why is that?

[Katsuki]

Katsuki: "I thought he was doing something I caught him doing in another game where he was scum." - What did you think I was doing, and when did you first think this?

From the very start of the game in how you approached the panzer wagon. It was more that my feeling towards you got progressively worse as the game went on (took a few RL days for this game to even get through two pages), and panzer's play that lead me to that link between you two.

[Katsuki]

Really want an answer from Katsuki before I get into some of this further (including the "red herring").

As far as "not the kind of thing I think opportunistic scum make up", the problem with your argument here is that opportunistic scum Katsuki wasn't saying most of this until trying to explain his behaviour today. Whether or not "I was too chicken to vote for him before" would have helped lynch me yesterday, earned him town points yesterday, made the switch easy yesterday, is all irrelevant because

he wasn't giving that explanation yesterday

. All that's in his ISO is that he was willing to hammer Panzer and then the implication that he didn't think a mith lynch was viable until you jumped back to me. Neither of these strike me as out-of-character for opportunistic scum at all.

It's bullshit cases like these are so incredibly scummy. I refuse to believe that you rely on generics to scumhunt.

I was asked by others to explain my behavior and thinking behind my posts from last game day, and apparently that makes me scum too.

[Katsuki]

Fishy, I'm interested, who do you actually find as scum this game?


Gotta finish catching up once again at a later time, didn't get chance to skim through walls.

[Fishythefish]

@Kat: a rough town to scum list for me goes:
DRK
Rhinox
Kat
KK
chamber
mith
Kitty
I think there's a good chance that there are 2 scum in the bottom 3 there. I can't say I have any massively strong scumreads; I'm mostly working through PoE, and so my scumlist consists of people who don't look particularly town and have maybe made one or two posts that rub me the wrong way.

You should come and hammer Kitty. Then when she flips scum we should lynch mith together tomorrow.

[mith]

"From the very start of the game in how you approached the panzer wagon." - Ok, following up then: How does this fit with your actions at the start of page 2? The sequence of events here:

#16 - chamber votes Panzer
#17 - Kitty Mo votes Panzer
#18 - mith gives FOS to chamber and asks Kitty Mo about her vote
[discussion about chamber and DRK, mostly]
#31 - Katsuki votes DRK (L-1!) with no comment on either Panzer or mith
#32 - Fishy unvotes DRK and votes mith
#33 - Katsuki sticks with DRK vote and no further comment.

These are not the actions of someone who "from the very start of the game" suspected me for my approach to the forming Panzer wagon.

#258 - First, this (#214) wasn't a case; it was a response to Fishy arguing that scum wouldn't act as you acted. The case is summed up simply as:

I don't believe that your statements re: your suspicion of me and Panzer are consistent with your actions.

(Also not a fan of you responding to my posts with strawmen.)

[Kublai Khan]

@chamber - what's your analysis on the lack of KittyMo hammering?

[chamber]

@chamber - what's your analysis on the lack of KittyMo hammering?

If you are scum, I suspect its scum with rhinox. So that would be 2 scum votes already on the wagon, again if you are scum, my next two biggest scum reads after you 2 would be mith and fishy. On the other hand if DRK is scum, I can easily see it being with kittymo. Less sure on a third, but kitty being mafia in this game-view is all that's really important. So both of those do a pretty decent job of explaining things (and I do think exactly one of you and DRK is scum at this point). Currently I'd rather see you die, or if not you DRK, so I don't intend to vote for kitty myself.

[Kublai Khan]

and I do think exactly one of you and DRK is scum at this point)

Why?

[Rhinox]

@chamber - what's your analysis on the lack of KittyMo hammering?

Wasn't directed at me but I was just thinking about this anyways. Right now if/when deadline hits (I actually think it passed about 12 hours ago?) kittymo would be the lynch even if there is no hammer. IMO, lack of a hammer means kittymo is either scum, or there are 2-3 scum in {Fishythefish, Rhinox, Kublai Kahn, mith} - The longer the kittymo wagon sits at l-1 without a hammer, the better odds that the wagon moves elsewhere before deadline. If kittymo is town, scum probably would have hammered by now to prevent the wagon possibly shifting to scum, except in the case where many scum are already on the wagon. Likewise, if kitty is scum, scum have incentive to stall and wait out the deadline, hope the wagon shifts to a townie. There have been pushes for lynches in other directions than kitty over the past 3 days, in varying degrees of subtlety. (my opinion is that the kitty is scum scenario is the correct one, FYI)

[Fishythefish]

Just checking in to say I'm around. I haven't been doing much recently because I'm happy that we're getting a kitty lynch, and don't feel there's anything I want to do until it happens.

[mykonian]

it was at this moment of desperation that Hind bint Utbah rallied the women and they chanted their men back to the field. A truly heroic deed, which changed the tides and saved the day. The Romans however, saw what changed, and one of the soldiers managed to throw a spear towards the heroic women.

votecount

KittyMo (4): Fishythefish, Rhinox, Kublai Kahn, mith
Kublai Kahn (2): chamber, deathrowkitty
mith (2): KittyMo, katsuki

not voting (0):

KittyMo, Hind bint utbah,

mafia conditional doublevoter

was lynched day 2

It is now day 3. That one will end on the 30th

[chamber]

Vote DRK

[Kublai Khan]

You didn't answer my question chamber.

[Kublai Khan]

vote: chamber

^Forgot that part

[chamber]

You're right, I didn't.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: KK

Fun fact: The mod apparently decided deadline didn't matter because this is a nightless game and only ended the day because I harassed him about it on AIM. It's not like anything important happens at deadline, right?

[Kublai Khan]

@DeathRowKitty - What's your opinion on chamber?

[Fishythefish]

Huzzah!

Looking at yesterday, Rhinox massively didn't have to vote Kitty - I was getting no support, and he had other natural directions (notably mith). His fairly passive, "I'd better have a vote down and fishy looks town" vote isn't that of scum trying to get hundreds of town points for bussing.

KK's vote for Kitty is awesome. He listed her solidly in the middle of his reads a page earlier, and never said anything at any point that implies she is scum. When I made my "follow me or lose" post, he hopped straight onto the Kitty wagon. My post was a weird one you don't normally see, and the reaction to it was very unpredictable (I certainly had no idea what would happen). I would really think scum would want to see what was happening before jumping on the wagon. Particularly in KK's position; KKscum could easily have plumped for mith rather than Kitty. And again, it really doesn't look like KK is trying to look town by bussing; he does nothing to push the lynch except the important bit with the voting.

I'd peg mith as by far the mostly likely busser. He voted Kitty last, and arguably by then she looked in some trouble. However, even mith looks reasonably good here - he committed to Kitty over the other viable non-mith wagon (KK) much earlier in day 2.

So. I think the wagon is pretty full of townie goodness. I'd guess it's at worst 3-1 town-scum, with a solid chance of being all town. I'm not looking to lynch on it today.

Kat looks pretty bad with the flip. He never commented on Kitty after his random vote, including when I asked for everyone's opinions and when I urged him personally to hammer (though to be fair he didn't post at all after that). chamber and DRK both pushed the KK counterwagon, which scum obviously had an interest in doing. On other things, my gut is still telling me DRK is town, and I still think Kat's day 1 panzer-mith thing is unlikely from scum, but I could be wrong on either.

All in all, it's a

VOTE: chamber.

He's the only player I have no reason at all to think is town. He was on the wrong wagon yesterday. Could well be scum.

Some questions for people:

@DRK: what do you feel about KK's vote on Kitty yesterday? Is it a likely play from scum?
@Kat: did you see my post 260 yesterday?
@chamber: in 263, you said you felt exactly one of DRK and KK were scum. Why not neither? (Yeah, I know you've already decided not to answer that. But I need an answer to get a better read on you, and if I don't get a better read on you I want you dead.)