Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[borkjerfkin]

You weren't worried about that with HD...

[JacobSavage]

Or in any other game that I've seen you in, I mean this is the second time you've been cautious about hammering. Its odd, but nothing that important.

But seriously if Nic flips in Red, somebody seriously needs to look into AA.

[ArcAngel9]

You weren't worried about that with HD...

becuz i was confident on HD, matter of fact i am still too.

[NicCage]

Woah ok, well I'm still on spring break, gonna be busy tonight again, so just give me a little time before you lynch me.
But seriously, what? Where did this all come from? Jenn, I don't know how to respond to all your notes, could you take out what most makes you think I'm scummy?

The one scummy thing I remember going back through Nic's ISO that I called attention to D1 was that his "Here's a huge case on panzer but let's vote jennifer after all that cause why the fuck not" (#516) was AWFUL. That probably offsets that twilight towntell (#760) and points to the lack of a jennifer/niccage team.

Eh, I'll consider Nic (ArcAngel please give an opinion here).

Jacob's better IMO.

Okay I get this. Yeah honestly once Jennifer joined the game I was having trouble keeping up with what was going on, and when panzer came on so strong I had no idea who was scummy and who wasn't. So I just was trying to get back into the game at that point. That post was pretty dumb in retrospect.

[CityElectric]

Votecount 4.2

Human Destroyer (L-2):

KX, JacobSavage

NicCage (L-2):

Human Destroyer, Jennifer

JacobSavage (L-3):

borkjerfkin

Not voting (2):

NicCage, ArcAngel9

It's now day 4. With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends in (expired on 2013-03-24 21:00:00).

Sorry for the very late votecount. I hereby promise to keep it updated more frequently.

KX and Human Destroyer have been prodded.

[Human Destroyer]

Replaced?

I don't wanna be replaced

Let's all have a grand NicCage wagon

It'll be fun!

[KX]

Aw dang it and here I was gonna try and go an entire day without a prod.

What I'm worried about with this NicCage wagon is that it may end up as just a diffusion, and avoid the main problem.

Also, for Bork's response that HD isn't scummy for following those lynches, since scum would inevitably buss, think about it. Of the three scum was lynched D1. That meant only two were left. We're assuming HD is the second, so that means there's only one aside from him left. To buss them would mean he'd have to win the rest of the game only himself. A good way to get them both to survive would be for them to pressure others, and push for lynches of innocents. And look how that went?

Also, HD, sorry if I missed it, but reason for the change of heart about Jacob?

[borkjerfkin]

Also, for Bork's response that HD isn't scummy for following those lynches, since scum would inevitably buss, think about it. Of the three scum was lynched D1. That meant only two were left. We're assuming HD is the second, so that means there's only one aside from him left. To buss them would mean he'd have to win the rest of the game only himself. A good way to get them both to survive would be for them to pressure others, and push for lynches of innocents. And look how that went?

This is circular reasoning. You can't assume HD is scum when you're trying to prove he's scum.

[Human Destroyer]

Also, HD, sorry if I missed it, but reason for the change of heart about Jacob?

It was the townslip I explained earlier

If Nic's townslip was faked, his can be too.

[NicCage]

Kay spring break is over.
VOTE: HD
I've reread his ISO and I'm voting him based on his exchange with panzer, the way he's uses bad reasons to switch his reads, and how he came to be voting me today.
I'm really wishing that I took notes, I know you guys probably want some more developed reasons, and I'll try to go back and find them once I get back to school later today.

[JacobSavage]

@AA ans Bork, which out of HD ans Nic do you find the scumniest and why?

[borkjerfkin]

@AA ans Bork, which out of HD ans Nic do you find the scumniest and why?

If you have to ask me this you're clearly not reading the game.

[KX]

Also, for Bork's response that HD isn't scummy for following those lynches, since scum would inevitably buss, think about it. Of the three scum was lynched D1. That meant only two were left. We're assuming HD is the second, so that means there's only one aside from him left. To buss them would mean he'd have to win the rest of the game only himself. A good way to get them both to survive would be for them to pressure others, and push for lynches of innocents. And look how that went?

This is circular reasoning. You can't assume HD is scum when you're trying to prove he's scum.

It's not circular reasoning if you bothered to think about it at all. First, it was in response to a comment about how being wrong on so many lynches doesn't make him scum, and so this explains why it actually does. Secondly, if you assume that HD is town instead, as you're implying, it means we have to believe HD, who is known to be a good player, managed to mislynch so many times, which, I don't know about you, but I find far less probably then him being scum himself.

[Human Destroyer]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... roficiency

[borkjerfkin]

First, it was in response to a comment about how being wrong on so many lynches doesn't make him scum, and so this explains why it actually does.

Except it doesn't. It's not a tell either way; stop trying to make it into one.

[JacobSavage]

I'm pretty sure that even HD would bus his partner so...

[borkjerfkin]

I'd like NicCage to explain 1434 better before I put him at L-1, but consider my vote on NicCage for the time being.

[KX]

HD, did you miss the part about "If the player in question does tend to find more scum as town than they do as scum, then by Bayes's Theorem the fact that they haven't found scum raises their likelihood of being scum themselves."? Obviously I'm not saying this proves you're scum, but I'm saying it makes it, to me, far more likely.

[Human Destroyer]

Except I'm not actually as good at this game as you think I am?

Seriously, if you're talking about that one Jungle Republic game we played last week, that was luck.

[NicCage]

Okay, I don't want to do this anymore, I'm getting tired, so I'll be skipping the point about HD using bad reasons to change his reads. I'll get it tomorrow.

The back and forth between panzer and HD has a lot to it and I think you should read it, it starts on post #555.
Panzer's response, #568, brings up a point about how HD is looking for approval by pointing out that he is the one driving the Jacob wagon at the time. Before that post, HD had spent a lot of time pushing Jacob, basically ignoring the case on GM. Yeah he mentions that it interests him, but he never puts GM above null in his reads and when AA9 asks him why he doesn't think GM is scummy he answers her question with a question, then with what he said earlier. No explanation at all. Looking at #407 and #412.

HD then pretty much explodes over the fact that panzer is accusing him of being scummy, for what he states are things that aren't scummy.

Panzer explains what he means in #568 and #577.
#584 is HD's huge reaction to panzer's accusations. HD misreps panzer in this post, stating that panzer was using what he saw as scummy behavior to avoid HD's question, although panzer

did

answer it immediately in #568. Panzer call's HD out on what was an OMGUS vote from HD, with very little reason to back other than that he didn't like panzer's reasons and he claimed panzer was twisting his words. This is an extremely defensive action from a player who is in no danger of being lynched.

I think Panzer's interpretation of HD's reaction was dead on.

1) You can convince people that someone is scum without making a case or posting a wall. shocking I know.

2)

-Voting a player his "scumread" is pushing the lynch of

is it though. and I didn't even say I was going to. I said I would consider it. You are being very liberal with the english language here. Using the definite of "He's voting" as the future of he is "going to". Neither of which are true.

3) Only small because it's a scumslip you did. Scumslips are generally small.

4) 1 vote on me that is obvious OMGUS = OMG HE'S CALLING ALL HIS VOTES SCUM GUYS.


You are getting worked up and creating a case on over me "calling you scum for things that aren't scummy". If that were true, you wouldn't be getting so worked up over it. You are panicking over something that wouldn't be such a big deal if you weren't scum.

I have more, but this is taking so long, people keep interrupting me. So more tomorrow, I promise. Hopefully in the morning so you won't have to wait, but who knows.

[Jennifer]

@Nic Say we flip you today. What do you want us to look at/consider tomorrow?

[borkjerfkin]

I like how on D1 Nic was arguing that Panzer's case on HD was weak, but now that Panzer has flipped he's analyzing those same arguments as something he personally believes to be true.

I mean it's one thing to say "Panzer was town and he built a case on HD so he may have been onto something"
and another to disseminate that case and say that you agree with it when you clearly did not at the time.

[NicCage]

I didn't even understand it at the time, I didn't understand very much of what was going on. If you flip me today you should definitely lynch HD, and the people you should look into are bork, jacob and you, but you're the least likely out of the three

[borkjerfkin]

Dude, you built a case on Panzer and now you deny culpability via "I didn't know what I was doing?" Instead of just "Guess I was wrong" which is what town would say?

VOTE: NicCage

This over HD so much.

[borkjerfkin]

And crap AA has the hammer