NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)

[Keybladewielder]

OMG I'm about to freaking ragequit!

[Bulbazak]

OMG I'm about to freaking ragequit!

Why? No one is really voting you, and you've done nothing to indicate that you might not be scum. Do some scumhunting, and people might start looking elsewhere.

[Keybladewielder]

Oh I apologize wrong game lmao

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 1.04:

Metal Overlord - Klick
The Acting Method - Titan
Bulbazak - robocopter, Reek, keybladewielder
Otterhorse - underachivers
Robocopter - rachmarie
Human Destroyer - Metal Overlord
Reek - serrapaladin
Titan - Bulbazak
Underachivers - Human Destroyer
ms. Marangal - BT
keybladewielder - arcangel8, OtterHorse

Not Voting - antilles, ms. Marangal, The Acting Method

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch and to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-03-31 00:58:14) or by midnight on April 1st, 2013.

[Titan]

What the fuck, Tammy? It's like that "this will be brief" line at the very beginning is mocking me. ANYWAY:

Totally did not mean for it to be that long.

You reply to AA9's vote on you when such a vote doesn't exist so I'm going to assume it's a reply to Bulbazak. I don't like your way of dismissing that vote -- feels inappropriate to the state of the game. I'd expect a "discussion" to better read the slot instead of a straightfoward "you're wrong, stop it", which just reads purely defensive.

I wasn't responding to AA's vote on me as she never voted me. I did give a preliminary read on her based on her reaction to being called scum by theunderachivers.

As far as not liking my reaction *shrug*. I do tend to get defensive when someone calls me scum for a bad reason. I wasn't sure of him and wanted to get a better read. He's perfectly welcome to discuss things with me.

Your "kind of a towntell" on TU irks me because it's like you haven't thought about it hard enough -- scum can eliminate townies via lynches which is what I assume he meant. Considering this follows after a pretty good reason to suspect him ("reply to BT questioning me compared to Bulbazak voting me"), an ill-thought-out towntell to subdue that raises my brow.

It wasn't a slam dunk, hey this is a solid town tell, which is why I labeled it as kind of a town tell, and I did consider that. I spill a lot of my thoughts but don't always spill everything, and was interested in their response to my potential town tell and other people's. That interpretation is a small point in their favor, and I'd hoped that Mastin would react to it today when he posted, as there are issues I have with both of their heads at the moment.

Finally, unrelated to that post, Arthur was questioned about my meta earlier but simply ignored it. What's the motivation behind that?

Because it's arthur? He probably missed it, and yes even though he quoted the very post it was asked in, he has a tendency to miss things or overlook them. As do I, but probably less than Arthur does. If you want a specific question answered, sometimes you just have to ask it again.

He did leave me a message that he had a null read on you and was trying to get a better read though.

To reply to your question, I don't think I've ever read you as town as soon as single-digit pages and TU was the only one to read you as town here IIRC, with at least one person suspecting your slot. Questioning them about it is natural. By the way, what makes you think you have a decent handle of my meta?

The way you asked the question it seemed like it was "how can you have a town read of titan?" Which really anyone acquainted with mine or arthur's meta - i don't know if they are acquainted with arthur - it's pretty easy to get that from early posts. That said, I'm always a little bit weary of town reads of me given too early even when I know I've been pretty townie. As far as me thinking I have a handle on your meta, can we just postpone that answer? I don't *think* my answer will broach ongoing games territory but I'd rather not put it to the test.

Another question -- what do you think of my reason for reading Bulbazak as town? I don't think I said it directly (only linked to the post): I questioned his meta read by asking if he played with scum!AA9 in the past. He had an option of admitting that it isn't a great meta read and I'm correct, or acknowledging my point but sticking to it anyway, both avenues for later backtracking that I have a hard time seeing scum NOT take. Instead he stated that he's only played with her as town but her play is even more town than before, which seems like a genuine response from a townie who is legitimately using meta to his aid. Him being new (I assume?) makes it much more likely that he'd have taken the easy option as scum. -- eh, this was before your stated town-lean on him, but feel free to answer anyway

I think in theory it's decent reasoning. I didn't get that's what you meant until just now. When I read it earlier though, my first thought was a bit different. AA has a tendency to OMGUS when she's town and is called scum. I get the sense that she just really expects that when she's town everyone can see that and only scum would think she's suspicious. So, I thought the original town read could have been him trying to avoid a situation where suspicion would be raised against him pretty immediately. But based on his later play, I don't think that's an accurate assumption though. As far as your reasoning, sounds good, I feel like there's a hole there but I'm exhausted and can't really word well right now or make sense of it to myself. Probably doesn't matter though because I'm leaning town on him for other reasons.

[OtterHorse]

I disagree that it's scare tactics. There's a balance in utility between getting rid of a potentially harmful player and lynching someone with a better chance of being scum. I am wary of people who ignore this balance and blindly call for a policy lynch before much discussion has taken place.

This game is not balanced, and policy lynches are supposed to be done early. Besides the only ones who are more likely scum than KBW right now are you, TAM, RM and Antilles. We can always lynch you instead.

I've also spent my fair share of time reviewing setups (f2f ones), and I'd be happy to agree 10:5 is still townsided, had this setup not been balanced and reviewed by people I can only assume know what they're doing. I hesitate to believe from someone who might be scum that town can play a loose game because this setup is so townsided.

f2f is nothing like forum mafia. Nothing. Its like saying if you are good at PIG or something you are automatically a great basketball player, they have a bit of the same core but required skills are very different. Also you do realize my complaining is what made the setup already change once right? Its still townsided, but just not as townsided. I think anypony who knows the theory on this setup (did you ignore my evidence that 8:4 is townsided?) would agree with me that this game is more townsided than scumsided by far, and could be better balanced.

Im not saying we play a loose game, im saying we policy lynch KBW. Thats twisting my words quite a bit.

[Titan]

OHHHHHH! We started with 17 people not 12. Ignore my previous comments that two mislynches would put us into lylo.

I can count but I apparently can't read.

Once, just once, is it too much to ask that once I don't misunderstand or misread the setup? *idiot*

[RachMarie]

@ Tammy don't feel too bad about that, was reading the recent posts and saw math and my eyes started to glaze over. Dashie we all know you are a great player and all, but can we focus on non mathematical scum hunting?

I think I should be offended that you are putting me in the same category as Key bah he reminds me so much of Kassadin but wordier...

[Ms Marangal]

Yo, TAM you still around?

[RachMarie]

Tam tend to be a fair bit of a lurky loo from my experiences with him in games.

[Metal Overlord]

MS:

I just checked here for activity, and although there have been a good number of posts since my last post, I am disappointed in the lack of quality of them. Keybladewielder WTF?


Not much of thoughts to post, considering I tl;dr'd the long ones and the short ones were full of bullshit.

I advocate a policy lynch, but question is who?

[Ms Marangal]

TAM is somewhat active elsewhere though. He's made a couple post in another game, yet he's only posted here once today

[RachMarie]

hmm that IS odd, he has always lurked in the games I have been in with him though, so maybe would be good to look at completed games and see if he lurks more as town and more active as scum? Cause he was town in the games he and I were in together.

[serrapaladin]

We can always lynch you instead.

I'll agree that KBW looks fairly scummy, but I suppose I have a problem with the discussion-stifling implications of labeling him a PL.

BT: why is it beneficial for scum to ignore votes on them?

I don't like MO's 235 commenting on the lack of comment-worthy things.

RM, how many games with TAM have you played where he's lurked early on? My one game with him has had quite active.

[The Acting Method]

I have two site meta's...

And really it probably tells you more about the size of the game and/or my schedule at the time.

I've read through to about page 5 of the game... I have no idea who to vote for if any... Not enough standout interchanges or scum hints.

[Reek]

Hello. It's been a busy couple of days and today is going to continue to be too busy for me to read the stuff I've missed tonight. I haven't really had a chance to talk to Nexus since, basically, the start of the game, so I'll catch up with both him and the thread ASAP and see what's going on. Consider this half a prod-dodge in case he hasn't posted as us either.

ChannelDelibird, ChannelDelibird, it rhymes with ChannelDeliword.

[Antilles]

OtterHorse: Why are you voting me?

You havent head claimed mainly (which as ive said, anti-town at best), but especially after your last couple posts are a decent scumpick independently of that as you are really more seeming to comment on KBW who is a hot topic of conversation but actually say nothing with respect to alignment.

You sound like you're convinced I'm town, but that you want to be stubborn and vote me anyway, based solely on principle that you're not getting what you want.

[Ms Marangal]

I have never personally played with Active TAM at all. he does lurk quite a bit, though IMO, he does it harder, and more actively as scum then as town. then again, almost everything he does pings my radar soo....

[TheUnderachivers]

Dammit, I keep on forgetting that I'm actually in a New York game again.

Anyway--

Mod: The Mastin-half of our hydra is going to be V/LA for an extended period of time.

Weekend V/LA, surgery prep on Monday, surgery on Tuesday, and recovery for approximately a week after that, which puts the V/LA ending some time in the first week or so of April.

I'll do what I can to not let Nero get mislynched d1 again, butyeah. Something you need to know.

[ArcAngel9]

Am here today, Will catch up in a while..

[Bulbazak]

Ok, first I want to apologize for my play thus far. Normally I'm a lot better at logically dissecting posts, but I seem to have started off with the wrong tactic. I wanted to try something new with the self-vote, but while it did eventually lead to some reads, it did so in a roundabout way. I doubt I'm going to use this gambit again, just because of how troublesome it is in the long run.

Now on to the meat of this post. I took some time to go back over the game and try to see the big picture. The following are my reads thus far:

Reek - Null. As has been pointed out before, his thoughts on a self-vote policy lynch are not indicative of alignment. He really hasn't done anything else.

Human Destroyer - Town. He came out strong questioning people's motives and actively scumhunting. Seriously, he's posting town like crazy.

Antilles - Leaning Scum. They really haven't posted much besides prod dodges. Otherwise they are being really defensive about being voted for without adequately dissecting the reasons for the votes or the voters themselves. I also did not like their post #111. It did not feel genuine.

Titan - Town. As much as I dislike Titan at the moment, that gigantic wall and the reaction to my post reads town. Going back over the thread, it is now easy to read the towniness in their posts. It's something you have to get used to I guess...

Ms. Marangal - Leaning Town. Her early posts had little to no content. However, her more recent posts give me a town vibe. I expect her to get more lively as the game progresses.

The Acting Method - Leaning Scum. He really hasn't posted anything content-wise, but I have a hard time believing he can't follow what's going on. What this shows me is an unwillingness to read while still trying to make it appear like he has. That's a scum trait to me.

BT - Town. BT unvoted me after asking about how I feel about discussion when it comes to finding scum. I had a hard time rectifying that with a scum mindset. If he was scum, he would have rode the Bulbazak wagon hard, especially with all the attention I was getting with the self-vote. Unvoting because of that reason does not make sense as scum. Therefore, I read him as town. His voting habits make sense once you realize he's trying to get reads on his nulls, and he's using votes to do that. He's an active voter. That's his playstyle, and while I may not always agree, to each his own when it comes to catching scum.

Serrapaladin - Town. He's asking the right questions and actively scumhunting. Plus his posts give me town vibes to boot.

The Underachivers - Leaning Town. I checked out Mastin's wiki after BBMolla called me Mastin 2.0 in Newbie 1333. It seems that he has a habit of making bad calls when it comes to reads. Therefore, I really can't use that as a scum tell. I also find him overjustifying his scumtells on AA9 and Otter to be townish. It just feels genuine. I don't like them freaking out about the possibility of being lynched. While no one wants to be lynched, scum is more likely to freak out in that matter than town. Them having bad luck with being lynched early in past games might explain it, but this is the reason why I'm not calling them full on town.

Keybladewielder - Scum. His posts lack content. His reads were fake. And the immediacy of that post after the one where he said he was going to catch up shows that he was not truly reading.

Robocopter87 - Leaning Town. I got some town vibes off of his post #21. However, I'm disliking his lack of content, although I'm getting a feeling this is part of his playstyle. Would like to see more of him before I will completely call him town.

Klick - Town. I've seen some real town motivation in his more recent posts.

Metal Overlord - Leaning Scum. Most of their posts were arguing with UA about hydra head claiming. All it did was take up space and did nothing to help in the scumhunting. While I did like their postion on me and my self-vote after my outburst, I don't believe that to be a towntell by itself. In all probability, probably buddying. To top it off, they have recently been advocating a policy lynch, which would be an easy mislynch for scum.

Otterhorse - Scum. Most of their posts have been about theory or setup. Other than that, they've been advocating strongly for a policy/utility lynch. Their admonishment of me after mine and Titan's back and forth does not feel genuine at all, and feels like more of an attempt to discredit me and any future arguments I might have. That's a strong scumtell with me. Their reads also do not feel genuine at all. It is more like they took a list of people who fell in the scum or null category and threw them together as a lynch list. I will say this is the only scumread that doesn't completely mesh with the others. Should we lynch Otter and they flip scum, I will need to reexamine everything to see who is more likely to be scum.

Rach Marie - Null. Almost forgot her. So far she really hasn't posted anything that is alignment indicative. She has promised a reads list, so I'm going to wait until she posts that, as I feel that will give me a better handle on her alignment.

Arcangel9 - Town. As I've said, I've played with her before, and she is playing crazy town.

All that being said...

Unvote

Vote Otterhorse

I really can't bring myself to vote anyone else.

[Human Destroyer]

I'm getting back into this game now

[Human Destroyer]

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

I'm not even certain I'm reading this right. I'll come back with some content soon.

We're out of RVS so I'm straight up not voting as such.

THIS JUST IN:

HD v MO reads TvT

to me; agree, disagree? Discuss.

PEDIT:

TU is probtown too.

PEDIT2: I've never enjoyed ArcAngel9. Discuss.

Bolded: Metal Overlord-scum = Antilles-scum

Italicized: Why?

[Human Destroyer]

And if that I'm just saying now was shown on another page, then sorry, I skimmed the thread. I didn't intend to make more then one post, so.

VOTE: TheUnderachivers ~KX

P-EDIT: TvT?

P-EDIT2: gdi I never thought I'd say this but I think we need to post less.

TvT is town v town

You haven't seen too much posting until you've played *ongoing*

Mastin, Nero, and Arc know what I'm talking about

[Voidedmafia]

Bump.