And I'm not happy with the fact he keeps going back to sotty as a reason to town-read Jason (since sotty gave up that town-read on day 2, which is something CDB definitely knew about and yet now ignores entirely).
This is me acknowledging this point and, like my magical disappearing Benmage reread, not having a good answer for it short of "I'd really forgotten that that had happened". Still think Jason's a bad lynch today based on absta interaction, though.
-- we've got over three days left to go, and both DV and Cerulean have promised to post something more substantial soon. I don't see any reason to hammer before they have the chance to do that, so I'd recommend that you hold off for a bit. Day 4's been a damp squib as it is, may as well
try
to get some discussion out of it.
--
Also, people should stop ignoring my questions? Case in point:
In post 2840, Plessiezarus wrote:(Also, "Shaft", did you ever explain why you switched to an alt? Please do so, or direct me to the relevant link. Thanks.)
Maybe I acted unfavorably. It is a petpeeve of mine when asking simple tasks, and being told to go look them up, as bullshit. Was it not CDB, who kept saying how much he was pressing, Jason D1.. saying look it up, and then I did and there was nothing. Yeah, point. MY POINT is, yes it is important for people to do their own legwork... But look at the person making the request. Clearly if I had the ability to I would.
Anyways I pm'd the mod about my personal life affecting mafia, and apologized for the last post. I don't see a need to mention it here, as it isn't game relevant.
If you think that was an orchestrated use of personal meta... ..
unvote vote CDB
scum is scum. Me first, or him whichever, lynch this scumbag.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216
I've gone over the remaining players a million times in my head. While the suspect pool I'm left with always has both CDB and Benmage in it, I highly doubt they're both scum bussing each other. On that train of thought, if Benmage is lynched and flips scum, I doubt CDB is partnered to him. But if Benmage flips town, I think we really need to lynch CDB tomorrow.
Plus the fact that if he HAPPENS to be town, and is the tiebreaker with me and scum in endgame....his unreasonable fixation on me will lose the game for us. Closed mind = suboptimal.
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
Plus the fact that if he HAPPENS to be town, and is the tiebreaker with me and scum in endgame....his unreasonable fixation on me will lose the game for us. Closed mind = suboptimal.
Okay so, the only thing we feel really (semi) confident about is: Pless, Camn and DV are town.
Kise/Shaft is only on maybe town list because of his claim. His play is absolute shit, and if it weren't for the probably crumb coupled with his claim I'd lynch it in a second.
Jason might be town because of tgah's interactions. But, again, his play is absolute shit. It's even worse than Kise's, and that's setting the bar low low low.
who's left?
cdb. benmage, kuribo?
i'm kinda depending on sotty here for kuribo. and the way he's used the neighborhood has been townish. Dan's posts in the neighborhood were townie, don't know why he didn't post that way in the actual thread, but whatever. i'd also like to believe that kuribo is town from the conversations in the neighborhood, but i'm lacking confidence at this stage.
Okay, I know this isn't something substantial, but it's a product of our discussion tonight
and I'm drunk so succinct huzzah!!!
but this is where we're at. I'll try to be better tomorrow.
Also, I'm a little irked that setup spec was all the rage until we actually had claims, and then all you people who wanted to engage in it, when I asked what was most likely, were like meh never mind.
Because can someone tell me how likely it is that town has a 1 shot BG, and 1 shot kill-proof, an expensive doctor, a joat, a 3 shot vig, a 3 shot neighborizer, and a friendly neighbor?
I don't even pretend to understand balance, sooo........
I'm really sorry, but I won't be able to read over people properly tonight. Don't wait for me if you'd rather go ahead, but Benmage's recent posts feel scummy at first glance, as if he's trying too hard to look town almost?
I need to reconsider CDB though and I agree with you, Cerulean, on both Jason and Shaft/Kise/whatever he calls himself.
In post 2893, DeasVail wrote:Benmage's recent posts feel scummy at first glance, as if he's trying too hard to look town almost?
Clever of you to have already voted for him, then! Although "I don't feel like Benmage is scum but I'll vote for him anyway [a week passes] oh, his recent posts feel scummy" seems an odd way to go about scum-hunting.
In post 2845, Plessiezarus wrote:What stance of Benmage's did you like, specifically? What was it about, if you can't remember when it happened?
(And answer my other question too -- why did you decide to switch to the "Shaft" alt?)
~ Pless
When Ben was still voting me despite me claiming doc. I got the day wrong but I know that's what I liked about him. At first he didn't care to vote me, then was like nah fuck that, Kise is playing like shit, inexcusable. His comments are what I like. He didn't puss out.
I'm more comfortable posting on this account.
DeasVail wrote:I'm really sorry, but I won't be able to read over people properly tonight. Don't wait for me if you'd rather go ahead, but Benmage's recent posts feel scummy at first glance, as if he's trying too hard to look town almost?
I need to reconsider CDB though and I agree with you, Cerulean, on both Jason and Shaft/Kise/whatever he calls himself.
This last sentence..what does that have to do with alignments? You found us voteworthy before, TODAY.
Setup speculation got a lot less interesting once the SK-or-vig slot was claimed by somebody everyone has a town-read on and almost everyone else claimed VT?
And I think I tried answering this question in the Neighborhood QT already, but anyway. (I don't think the question "is this balanced?" is really answerable yet because we can't know the scum roles. Answering "would Faraday use these roles?" instead, which subsumes that question anyway.)
In post 2892, Cerulean wrote:Because can someone tell me how likely it is that town has a 1 shot BG, and 1 shot kill-proof, an expensive doctor, a joat, a 3 shot vig, a 3 shot neighborizer, and a friendly neighbor?
This actually seems like it's possible to me given Faraday's past Large Themes. It arguably points to a large-ish and mostly power-roled scum team though. (I actually don't think town
does
have both an expensive doctor and a bodyguard, but if I didn't find DV suspicious in his own right then I might?)
Just looking at the ASOIAF games Faraday modded (and ignoring Game of Thrones, because it was a mini), we've got:
Spoiler: A Clash of Kings
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=14239
This had 27 players. It was multiball (with two scumteams of 4 each and a SK).
- 5 of the 9 antitown players had power roles (two godfathers, a watcher, a roleblocker and the SK was bulletproof)
- town had 10 power roles, including a bulletproof townie, a jailkeeper, a doctor, a 3-shot assassin and a 6-shot neighborizer
That's a bulletproof, two protective roles and a multiple-shot neighborizer. The assassin was basically an inventor who only gave out night-kills, if I remember correctly. That's strictly weaker than a 3-shot vig, of course.
Spoiler: A Storm of Swords
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=16341
This had 25 players. It was also multiball (with two asymmetrical scum teams, one of 5 and one of 2, and a lyncher)
- all the antitown players except the lyncher had power roles
- town had 11 power roles (arguably 10, I suppose), including a JOAT, a roleblocker, a doctor, a 1-shot vigilante and a nerfed friendly neighbor (only communicated character name, not alignment)
That's a JOAT, a 1-shot vigilante and a doctor (plus another role that could potentially stop a kill).
Spoiler: A Feast For Crows
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=19468
This had 24 players. Only a single scum faction (6 players, counting the scum-aligned treestump Littlefinger).
- All the scum had power roles
- town had 9 power roles, including a roleblocker, a non-consecutive commuter, a weak doctor, a 1-shot vigilante and a bodyguard
A bodyguard, a 1-shot vigilante, and three roles that could stop a kill.
Spoiler: A Dance With Dragons
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=23120
28 players
Multiball (two scum factions, each with 4 members, though one of the four included a (recruitable?) traitor)
- 6 of the scum had power roles (including the traitor)
- town had 8 power roles (at least one of which was just a joke though), including torturer, non-consecutive roleblocker, champion (basically an improved gladiator?) and JOAT
Champion is a de facto vig-shot. Torturer is roleblock+investigation. Town feels slightly underpowered here, actually, compared to previous Faraday games.
So, um. Could town have "1 shot BG, and 1 shot kill-proof, an expensive doctor, a joat, a 3 shot vig, a 3 shot neighborizer, and a friendly neighbor"? Maybe! Obviously three of those roles are confirmed town. The kill-proof is obviously meant to be balanced by the fact that Avon was a lyncher target. We don't know what power the JOAT actually had. Friendly Neighbour turned out to be a useful role because the McStab slot was suspected, but it's potentially less useful (if it goes to a strong townread who would have died early anyway).
That leaves BG, doctor, vig and neighborizer. Think at least one of {BG, doctor} should be town, and as I write this I'm actually tempted to think that town is actually underpowered if the claimed vig is lying. (That might be wishful thinking though?) Could definitely see Faraday giving neighborizer to scum. Fits okay with flavour, too, really. But kuribo's posts in the neighborhood QT feel genuine? (I also highly doubt scum!ActionDan neighborizes a buddy on night 1. Just doesn't make sense to me, and it doesn't seem to fit their interactions in the neighborhood QT either.)
Feel I'm starting to ramble, but basically the only options I see as plausible at the moment are
(1) Everyone claiming a PR is town.
(2) Kise is scum and everyone else claiming a PR is town.
(3) DV is scum and everyone else claiming a PR is town.
(4) Kuribo is scum and everyone else claiming a PR is town.
(5) Kise and Kuribo are both scum, the other two claimed PRs are town.
(Okay, or Cerulean is a SK and Zdenek is raging in the dead thread and wishing we'd listened to him on day 3 . But I really don't think that's true and I'm basically only mentioning it for completeness.)
Actually, town feels a bit weak in (5), too? Tempted to rule that out, but not sure I really can. (Would suggest a pretty small/weak scum team though? I mean, Kise and Kuribo would pretty much have to
be
the surviving scum team, which ... doesn't seem right.)
We also seem to be missing one of the weird/pointless roles Faraday likes to throw in. No Frey Cop, no Paranoid Daycop, no Tablesetter... guess that might point towards DV's claim being legitimate, but meh.
The number of claimed VTs surprised me at first (though more VTs seems to be the direction Faraday's modding is going in: ACOK had 7 VTs out of 27 players [26%], ASOS had 6 out of 25 [24%], AFFC had 9 out of 24 [38%] and ADWD had 12 out of 28 [43%]).
Still, given the flips we've had (and obvious flavour), I'd expect all the Cops to have ... well, Cop roles? At least investigative roles of some sort. And this pattern is sufficiently obvious after absta and TGAH's flips that the scum would not have risked claiming them. Making VT the obvious claim for scum today? (Flavour is part of why I think DV is more likely to be a Traitor than full Cop, actually.) Think it's entirely possible that all the remaining scum are in the claimed VT pile. (If there are three scum left, that would mean we started with 6 VT out of 19, or 32%, which seems entirely plausible to me.)
My thoughts on setup are this- I suck at setups.
BUT- I like giving scum a night after massclaim to decide who they want dead.
The simple fact is- they know who is town, and thus who has true-claims... and they have to decide who is the most dangerous to them, and kill them (hoping that there is no doc-save)
THEN- if there IS a doc-save, bingo, we get a soft-cleared townie.
If there is a kill, bingo- a smaller PR pool for speculation, and a decent chunk of MOSTLY wifom-free data re: NK specualtion.
I obviously agree with the Ben/CDB lynch pool. Lets get after it.
"if you weren't trying to be so unnecessarily mysterious all the time we wouldn't have these misunderstandings" - Yosarian2
.. 
. But I really don't think that's true and I'm basically only mentioning it for completeness.)