Micro 148: 50/50 Mafia (OVER)

[thenewearth]

@Pim:

1) First time iirc.
2) So you suspected me for FoS'ing Kid. Who cares about that now?

[KX]

I was curious as to if a lack of logical cohesion is something normal from them, as said lack would be my main grounds for reading them scum. As best I could tell, it seemed the norm, and hence my read of village idiot.

[D3f3nd3r]

Alexcellent has asked to be replaced.

Zachattack replaces Alexcellent as of now.

[Kid A]

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

also newearth you keep tossing around WIFOM
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
I didn't post it with full knowledge that my behaviour would be subject to scrutiny because posting as if I were town is what I would do regardless of my role

and lastly you seem to think defending yourself is a scumtell - as town my wincon is that I win when all the threats are dead
If I let people cast suspicion over me and I don't defend it I can't expect someone else to argue my case for me - and if there's no counter to your suspicion then I'm likely to be lynched which would not help me achieve my wincon

[thenewearth]

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

also newearth you keep tossing around WIFOM
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
I didn't post it with full knowledge that my behaviour would be subject to scrutiny because posting as if I were town is what I would do regardless of my role

and lastly you seem to think defending yourself is a scumtell - as town my wincon is that I win when all the threats are dead
If I let people cast suspicion over me and I don't defend it I can't expect someone else to argue my case for me - and if there's no counter to your suspicion then I'm likely to be lynched which would not help me achieve my wincon

I was pissed when people attacked my FoS? When?

Just because it's WIFOM doesn't mean that all of the choices are false.
Surely one of them is true.

So does that mean if scum defend themselves and say that their "I would go against my win condition" mean that their town?
Also... that was one FoS. WHICH DOESN'T EVEN COUNT AS A REAL VOTE. Town wouldn't even be bothered by this because it will pose no threat to them. But a paranoid scum would react to any kind of suspicion on them. No matter how little.

[thenewearth]

With that said, can you respond to my vote?

BTW... I can't react to something that I don't even know what I'm reacting to.

[Kid A]

2) So you suspected me for FoS'ing Kid. Who cares about that now?

It's an FoS. Don't make a fuss about it. You're not going to die from it.

and yet

That's why I said we use the term FoS instead of a vote 2.

Yes I know that it was for 2nd vote.

why didn't you use your first vote on me if I'm paranoid scum constantly getting over defensive

instead you just used your 2nd vote in the form of FoS and then whenever someone criticized you over it you just claim it doesn't matter because it's just an FOS

I think your logic is inconsistent, I think you're looking too hard for scumtells and I think you keep trying to dismiss or deflect any criticism of your play while casting suspicions on people but then saying it doesn't matter when someone tries to debate and move the game forward
UNVOTE: KX
VOTE: thenewearth

[thenewearth]

why didn't you use your first vote on me if I'm paranoid scum constantly getting over defensive

Well you know what... Sure. If that's what you want.

VOTE: Kid A

[Hyperion]

that way we can make sure that the mafia cant outvote us with the anon vote

Wow what a softclaim...

FoS: Kid A

If we do that, we make sure the mafia aren't able to use their own agenda for the anonymous vote

??? 23 < 34, so why give a notice to only Kid A? Am I not important enough?

RED FLAG

Also,

Vote: Alexcellent

Care to join the discussion, even if, as it stands, there isn't much?

RED FLAG

And Happy Scumday D3f3nd3r!

I have seen scum say "well why aren't you scrutinizing me?" as an attempt to gain town cred. In fact I think I have done it before myself...
Also, prod votes on page 2 are a no-no. Its a way to act like your busy.
KX, have you ever been scum before? and can I get some links to scum games if you have?

<snip>
Why, when referring to your own alignment, do you say "my faction" if you're town?

Why do you think implying oneself is town, when it's in a natural context and not outright saying "ok guys, I'm Town" is scummy/questionable?

<more snip>

These questions contradict each other, you question TNE on saying "my faction" (clearly meaning town, he is not gonna be like: "my faction (because I'm totally scum...)) but then defend Kid A for saying "us" again clearly meaning town.

Apparently I still haven't one a game as town.

Though the pokemon mafia we ALMOST won.
If only they listened to me who to lynch.

(self meta-ing tiiiiiime)

Most of my town games I'm right who the scum were.
I'm just NOT that good on giving a case

KX: I'm not a fan of meta unless significant.

I liked the pokemon game, I had a good role (but then got NK'd N! by a guy Who I roleblocked and my bulletproof didn't work [/rage]

<snip>

also newearth you keep tossing around WIFOM
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
I didn't post it with full knowledge that my behaviour would be subject to scrutiny because posting as if I were town is what I would do regardless of my role

<snippysnippy>

How do we know you didnt think you would be scrutinized when you posted that. We can't read minds (or at least I don't think so). Besides, this is mafia, you should no that everything you say will probably be scrutinized by at least one person.

[Hyperion]

VOTE: KX
Hamlet, what are your thoughts on the KX/TNE/KidA exchange?

[Kid A]

How do we know you didnt think you would be scrutinized when you posted that. We can't read minds (or at least I don't think so). Besides, this is mafia, you should no that everything you say will probably be scrutinized by at least one person.

sorry i should have clarified that a bit better

I didn't expect it to be especially scrutinised , the focus of the post in question was the point that we should use second votes so that before the day ends we are sure that we're all voting together to some extent and the mafia can't outvote us

if someone had claimed that I wanted second votes in that way because it is beneficial to scum and I am therefore scum I wouldn't be too fussed but the fact that TNE thought that the use of "us" was part of some sort of complex WIFOM plan was what lead me to believe that he is reaching

[Hyperion]

ALright I think I see where you are coming form, I'm going to go to class and mull it over

[zachattack]

Kid A, I'm confused by this.

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

You were claiming to not be mafia, you weren't claiming vanilla townie. Where does this talk about power roles come from?

[Kid A]

Kid A, I'm confused by this.

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

You were claiming to not be mafia, you weren't claiming vanilla townie. Where does this talk about power roles come from?

His FOS was based off of a softclaim where I implied I was town in a post because I said

that way we can make sure that the mafia cant outvote us with the anon vote

so I am explaining why nobody would claim to be anything but town

[zachattack]

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

also newearth you keep tossing around WIFOM
"WIFOM is the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."
I didn't post it with full knowledge that my behaviour would be subject to scrutiny because posting as if I were town is what I would do regardless of my role

and lastly you seem to think defending yourself is a scumtell - as town my wincon is that I win when all the threats are dead
If I let people cast suspicion over me and I don't defend it I can't expect someone else to argue my case for me - and if there's no counter to your suspicion then I'm likely to be lynched which would not help me achieve my wincon

That's not a vanilla town claim. His FOS was silly, and should have been dismissed by you as such. But bringing up "If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town" is completely irrelevant. There's nothing in your original post or his FOS about a power role or lack thereof. It feels off to me that you would bring that up.

[zachattack]

I don't know why that quote showed up there. That wasn't intentional and isn't relevant.

[Kid A]

I was just going through the possible things I could be

I'm either vanilla town, power role or scum

whatever one I am I would want to act like vanilla town

[Hamlet]

VOTE: KX
Hamlet, what are your thoughts on the KX/TNE/KidA exchange?

Still waiting on mine other head to answer KX's question, but I'm sure as hell not leaving an RVS vote on a growing wagon.

UNVOTE:

[PimHel]

@theNE
Yes, I suspect you also due to the FoS. And I still care about it as I don't like it when players keep their random vote, while having someone who they think is scummy. Could you explain why the change of using 'your faction' this game?
P.S. Could you answer KX's question in post #72

@KX
Would you have asked theNE for meta if I hadn't done so? And if so, when would you have done so?

Kid A and Hyperion have good votes, though I agree only for a little bit with Hyperion's reasoning.

VOTE: KX
Hamlet, what are your thoughts on the KX/TNE/KidA exchange?

Still waiting on mine other head to answer KX's question, but I'm sure as hell not leaving an RVS vote on a growing wagon.

UNVOTE:

._.
Seriously? You have to wait for your head to give us some input?

[Hyperion]

Kid A, I'm confused by this.

if you are going to get pissed when people attack your FOS don't do an FOS

I can't think of a situation where I wouldn't want to claim to be town

-If I'm vanilla town I would just be telling the truth
-If I'm a power role I would be making sure the scum don't know I have a power role and just act as though I were vanilla town
-If I'm scum I would want to act like I'm a villager so that people don't vote for me

You were claiming to not be mafia, you weren't claiming vanilla townie. Where does this talk about power roles come from?

I think I smell rolefishing

[KX]

I have seen scum say "well why aren't you scrutinizing me?" as an attempt to gain town cred. In fact I think I have done it before myself...
Also, prod votes on page 2 are a no-no. Its a way to act like your busy.
KX, have you ever been scum before? and can I get some links to scum games if you have?

True, especially gutsy scum, but in general it's a sign of town. Regardless though, I asked the question because I was curious why theNE had done it. Did they simply not see mine, or what? I still don't have a definitive answer, which is rather annoying, but I've given up on getting information from them via questioning. And why exactly is that a no-no, at least if one does other stuff and isn't using it as an excuse to seem active? Also, no scum meta, sorry to disappoint.

These questions contradict each other, you question TNE on saying "my faction" (clearly meaning town, he is not gonna be like: "my faction (because I'm totally scum...)) but then defend Kid A for saying "us" again clearly meaning town.

I was curious to what TNE would say about it, and if their being careful with terms had any relation to their suspicion of Kid A for implying towness. And I defended Kid A because I thought what they did was the completely natural way to respond, and didn't get why TNE was getting on them about it.

@KX
Would you have asked theNE for meta if I hadn't done so? And if so, when would you have done so?

I might have. If not, I probably would have just gone to their profile and checked via posts what games they were in. It would depend on how things turned out, but I probably would have asked/check it now, since I wasn't really thinking about meta at all last night.

[Hyperion]

b/c its a safe vote w/o pressure

[Hyperion]

also, does that mean you have never been scum before? even offsite?

[zachattack]

Nope. In response to TNE's FOS, KidA is either a townie saying he doesn't want mafia to control the anonymous vote, or he's scum pretending he doesn't want mafia controlling the anonymous vote to look town. Power roles don't come into that at all, so it's very strange for him to bring it up.

I think his FOS was silly. I have a townie read on him though. His FOS is exactly the type of townie overreaching that mafias love to take advantage of.

Also, Hydras are annoying.

[zachattack]

My last post was in response to rolefishing accusation.

b/c its a safe vote w/o pressure

Is this in response to this?

And why exactly is that a no-no, at least if one does other stuff and isn't using it as an excuse to seem active? Also, no scum meta, sorry to disappoint.